All in poker / El Blondie

[allinpoker]

You seem to have completely misunderstood the All In Poker rewards program. All In Poker is not a rake-back site, and never was. If you really want to understand how the commission program works then please invest 5 minutes in watching the movie on the home page (www.allinpoker.com). If you are interested in learning more then read the Brochure. Your comments below, in particular "if you play alot of poker you dont get anywhere near 51% of your rake back" are completely incorrect. I can prove to you via people that you know of personally, Ironside, that one's position in the downline does not mean that you earn less than someone above you. Now, I can prove this. I can show you the evidence. You cannot prove your statement below, and you shouldn't write such stuff without supporting evidence, or attempt to damage my website based on your prejudice or your blurred vision of pyramids or "chain letters". Watch the movie. Read the brochure. Look at the website. Sit back and think before you write. Let the penny drop. And, if one is not interested in making money from one's poker assets, then just play on the site like any other Prima site.

Paul

ok i will comment on all in poker and the "benifits" of 51% rake back

if you play alot of poker you dont get anywhere near 51% of your rake back
what you get is a share of other people rake if they are in your downline
if nobody in your downline plays you get 0$ in rake back where as the people
at the top of the chain gets paid your rake so
as a matter of fact it works just like a chain letter
the people at the top get rich while we plebs at the bottom get nothing

if that aint a fact then prove me wrong

[Ironside]

i stand by my statement that the people making the most money out of this are those at the top of the chain

the statement in your adertising of giving players back 51% of the rake is missleading

if you are lucky enough to get a big hitter in your downline then you can make good money

but the people that are making the real money are the top 2 or 3 players in the PRYAMID

[Ironside]

I can prove to you via people that you know of personally, Ironside,

are you saying people i have met once or twice at a poker table or people i got out for dinner with on a regualr basis

cause people i have met over a poker table are not the best character witnesses as i am trying to steal from them and they me all the time
as for people i go out to dinner with regularly none of them would know the difference between 74o and AA

[allinpoker]

Lots of people "stand by" what they say, even to the bitter end. See Tony Blair and Iraq for example. Sure, "if you are lucky enough to get a big hitter in your downline then you can make good money" -  yes - that's the whole point! So, why did you refer 10 duds to your downline? What we advertise is that we "always give back 51% of the net revenues to the players". We always do this. Always. Always. Always. I have nothing more to add.

i stand by my statement that the people making the most money out of this are those at the top of the chain

the statement in your adertising of giving players back 51% of the rake is missleading

if you are lucky enough to get a big hitter in your downline then you can make good money

but the people that are making the real money are the top 2 or 3 players in the PRYAMID

[allinpoker]

One is a major European professional poker player, very well known. Another is a poker business professional in the poker player's downline. The latter earns more commission (not "rake back") than the former because he is damn good at what he does, has seen the value of the proposition, grasped it, and runs with it.

I can prove to you via people that you know of personally, Ironside,

are you saying people i have met once or twice at a poker table or people i got out for dinner with on a regualr basis

cause people i have met over a poker table are not the best character witnesses as i am trying to steal from them and they me all the time
as for people i go out to dinner with regularly none of them would know the difference between 74o and AA

[Ironside]

i didnt invite anyone to my list and i refuse to spam my friends so never will send out invites

the thing with chain letters/pryamid schemmes is they need and endless stream of people to work

let say all your affllates go out there and sign up every player in the world to your site

the people at the bottom wont get a penny back where as the people at the top will be milking it

also they wont be able to sign up new people as the only new people to be signed up will be people having there 18th birthday and they will obviously sign up in there family line rather than that of some nobody

[Ironside]

One is a major European professional poker player, very well known. Another is a poker business professional in the poker player's downline. The latter earns more commission (not "rake back") than the former because he is damn good at what he does, has seen the value of the proposition, grasped it, and runs with it.

I can prove to you via people that you know of personally, Ironside,

are you saying people i have met once or twice at a poker table or people i got out for dinner with on a regualr basis

cause people i have met over a poker table are not the best character witnesses as i am trying to steal from them and they me all the time
as for people i go out to dinner with regularly none of them would know the difference between 74o and AA

and i know these 3 people?

i doubt if they are people i know more likely people i have met and maybe had a drink with

totally different

[ifm]

for me it's quite simple, if i play on betholdem (another prima skin) i will get ( i think) 35% rakeback when i play.
I do the same on allin i get err, nothing. You can say it's my fault for not getting Pokergirl1 in my downline but the truth is  i can guarantee X amount from elsewhere, where is my incentive?
I don't care if it's a pyramid scheme or not, it is irrelevant the point is it is not profitable unless i happen to get people who are prepared to bet a shed load of cash AND i have to play a shed load of raked hands on top.

[allinpoker]

Hi,

again, this is incorrect and you are misinforming. All In Poker takes care of our performing players. Let me explain. The 51% of net revenues is allocated to the player commission fund, distributed on the basis of individual player performance in terms of their referrals and their own play (not rake-back - raked hands). Not all commission is earned because not all targets are met (not everyone plays 750 AIP raked hands per month - the latter comprising of 9 AIP raked hands for every $1 paid in tournament fees, plus raked hands from cash games to whose pot the player has contributed). The difference between the 51% of corporate net revenues allocated to be paid to the players (not rake-back) and that actually earned is called the breakage. This breakage is used to pay cash bonuses to players. All In Poker decides who gets the bonuses (not rake-back). The 51% of net revenues always goes to the players. People who neither refer nor play will be last in line for bonuses. I think that makes sense. What would you prefer, 35% of your own rake or 51% of a revenue fund generated by 10's, 100's or in some cases 1000's of players in your downline? Work out what 51% of PartyPoker's net revenues are and compare that to 35% on a rake-back deal? You know, All In Poker is new and innovative and gives a great opportunity to all of you who have found yourself in the midst of the poker revolution, and recognise the opportunity. You play poker, you know people who play poker, so why not use this asset to earn extra income? That's what All In Poker is all about.

Thanks,
Paul

for me it's quite simple, if i play on betholdem (another prima skin) i will get ( i think) 35% rakeback when i play.
I do the same on allin i get err, nothing. You can say it's my fault for not getting Pokergirl1 in my downline but the truth is  i can guarantee X amount from elsewhere, where is my incentive?
I don't care if it's a pyramid scheme or not, it is irrelevant the point is it is not profitable unless i happen to get people who are prepared to bet a shed load of cash AND i have to play a shed load of raked hands on top.

[thelodger]

This whole thread is becoming quite cringe worthy, with accusations from one to another, and to be honest it’s not what I normally expect to see on this forum. Looks to me that something personal is going on and if it is then shouldn’t this be argument be best sorted out by Private messages?

[allinpoker]

Good point. I'm finished here. I'm happy to take any further queries on ceo@allinpoker.com.

Regards to all,
Paul

This whole thread is becoming quite cringe worthy, with accusations from one to another, and to be honest it’s not what I normally expect to see on this forum. Looks to me that something personal is going on and if it is then shouldn’t this be argument be best sorted out by Private messages?

[jimjamjay]

This whole thread is becoming quite cringe worthy, with accusations from one to another, and to be honest it’s not what I normally expect to see on this forum. Looks to me that something personal is going on and if it is then shouldn’t this be argument be best sorted out by Private messages?

 

Guys I think its pretty reasonable that the CEO of a pokersite has taken time to answer your objections.  If you have an issue with the scheme that they are running then thats your choice but its unfair to use this forum to attack a pokersite that has taken an innovative approach.  A lot of the comments made could be very damaging and made without evidence - thats just not cricket !!

[TightEnd]

Guys


we, together with the poster concerned, deleted some inappropriate phraseology from this thread but have allowed both the posters and the company to have their say on objections and a right of reply to these. We are happy to see robust discussion and to the best of our knowledge there is nothing personal here apart from the e-mail issue with DC's name for which he has received an apology.

[ifm]

I have no personal problem with allin, i just look at what is of advantage to me and my own circumstances.
At the moment it doesn't work for me, maybe it will in the future, i don't know.
I do know that if i think i can make it work i have no qualms in using the site, no probs.
Debate is a good thing in forums, in fact it is the life blood of them, as long as it is in the right spirit i see no problem.
I think the blurb annoyed one or two people and they reacted to that.
Ian

[DeVore]

F*ck sake this turned into War and Peace but please read it because I think I can straighten it all out.


I've stayed out of this for the whole thing because:

1. You guys don't really know me. Ok, Jen and I work together all the time and I like TK too cos he's a straight up, "no bull" kinda bloke. But I still feel like I am a newcomer here and you've no reason to read or believe what I say, unless its logically consistent within itself.

Translation: I haven't been out to dinner with Ironside. You have no reason to take anything I say on my character.
I wouldnt mind having dinner with Ironside, he sounds like an interesting bloke. I *have* been out to dinner with Jen and TK but then we were all very hungry, so that probably doesnt say much about my character either. I'll stick to logical arguments!


Full disclosure:
I have a big downline. I have about 50 active players. I make a good bit of cash from it. Well, frickin' *yay* for me. So what...



If, after reading this with an open mind and an unbiased heart you decide (like IFM) that its not for you, ok. No really, ok. Fair enough!


However, Ironside and IFM have, I believe, made some mistakes or been misinformed. I'll try to explain as best as my communications skills allow. I'll take them point by point.

1. "Its a pyramid scheme, only those at the top succeed".
Its not a pyramid scheme. I f*ckin HATE pyramid schemes and they are illegal in the EU anyway. Why is it not a pyramid scheme? Because of three subtle but distinct differences:

A. You never EVER EVER pay the people above you for entry or for being in their downline. Prima (via AIP) pays them a commission based on your activity. Pyramid schemes on the other hand will ask you for entry payment on the "promise" that you will get it back in spades when TONS of people join up after you. No such payment is demanded by AIP and no such promise is made. Its an affliate deal, you either invite more people or you dont. You're choice, your reward based on that choice.


B. Its limited to 7 levels of 5-wide. Aha you might counter, thats like 197,000 people, you'll never reach the bottom! Untrue. I already have people who are outside my downline. This happens when I invite Person A who invites person B who invites etc etc. 7 invites later... they are outside my downline and I get nothing. This is a key difference between AIP and a pyramid scheme. It kills the "only those at the top benefit". I'm half way down a big player's downline as it is and I'm making more then he is because the lower half of my downline is wide and doesnt pay him.


C. "The people at the bottom get nothing and they get screwed." 51% of revenue is ear marked for repayment. However nothing *like* 51% gets paid out because only 10-20% of the player actually play or reach 750 played hands. So what happens to that extra dosh? Everyone gets a shot at it. I've already played in about 10,000 worth of AIP-Only freerolls for the remainder. These are open to players who play even just one hand no matter where in the downlines they are. Pyramid schemes don't offer anything to the people at the bottom apart from the "EXCLUSIVE OPPORTUNITY TO SUPPORT THOSE AT THE TOP!!"


IFM... you said if you do nothing then its the same as playing on Prima with no rake back. This isnt true because you get entry into these freeroll tournies. they also pay out bonuses to big players with small downlines. I think thats great but its your decision, if you arent going to invite anyone and you are already part of a rakeback scheme, which is the better reward for you. Honestly, I can't tell you.
What I can tell you is that if you know 5 people who arent part of a rackback scheme you can get AIP to pay you a tidy sum and they'll get a benefit too.

If you really DO go out and invite a good few people you can make a packet. I have 40-50 people in my downline and I'm making about a grand a month. (I'm not going to give my downline details here to avoid the allegation of pimpage).


Spammage?
Someone sent invites claiming to be Isabel M. That person got investigated and dealt with. I can sign on here as Devilfish, say what I like, have this forum publish it to the world and it isnt BlondPokers fault is it???

Machines don't understand ethics. They just do what they are programmed to do. Bad people do bad things, lets blame and punish the bad people, not the people who own the machines.

The mistake here is that people think you can load a list of emails into AIP and blast them out. You can't you have to invite each person individually, by hand. (trust me, I know, I had to invite 200 people by hand!).
If someone sits down and spends an evening pretending to be Isabel M, they are to blame, not AIP.

Cont'd