Television match officials and football

[PokerBroker]

In England I think EPL/Championship is a must.  

I guess the argument there tho bud is the differences between Championship and League 1 is very small and League 1 to League 2 even smaller. And it gets smaller still as you go down. If you went even lower down the pyramids it gets almost negligible. For example Scots Div 2 and Highland league. Even if we extended it to the 'Pro' leagues in England and Scotland it still comes down to why would Edinburgh City games now have all the technological advances in their games but Buckie Thistle don't?

I think it needs to be a fundimental change to the make up of football not just for the TV leagues

The difference between the championship and league 1 is massive in financial and wages terms.    Seems a very logical cut off point for me between these two leagues.

This was where I was approaching from.  The money involved in EPL/Championship is massive.  Although the money in Scotland isn't the same there is a massive difference between SPL and Championship and most of the teams in championship aren't too interested in promotion to SPL.

Who knows if we start it in TV leagues then perhaps it may help improve the overall standards of refereeing.

One of the biggest problems for me is the decision makers in the game are all grey haired men in suits and they don't see the same issues as many fans do.

[Archer]

City should have had a penalty at 75 minutes yesterday and Walker sent off. (BTW credit to Walker for admitting to the offence in the post match interview). Assuming YaYa with his 100% record scores the penalty City go 3-1 up against a 10 man Tottenham who at that point had not really created much. Let's say City go on to win, not guaranteed, but say a c98% probability.

Arsenal today score a last minute winner when clearly it should have been disallowed for offside and maybe a c99% probability (not sure how much time was left seconds or a minute) and  the game ends in a draw.

Today 2nd-4th in the table is:
Arsenal  47
Spurs 46
Liverpool 45
City 43

With both incidents the TV evidence was there in seconds. Both black and white decisions and not a matter of opinion subject to debate.



The table could/should look like this:
Spurs 45
Liverpool 45
Arsenal 45
City 45.

That's 2 decisions and the potential impact is huge. Like others I think it is madness the available technology is not utilised.

Edit: Just seen Rinswun's post in the Arsenal thread. Only saw the last 10 minutes of the Arsenal game and not aware there was a stonewaller  earlier in the game. The point above still applies tho.

[Karabiner]

City should have had a penalty at 75 minutes yesterday and Walker sent off. (BTW credit to Walker for admitting to the offence in the post match interview). Assuming YaYa with his 100% record scores the penalty City go 3-1 up against a 10 man Tottenham who at that point had not really created much. Let's say City go on to win, not guaranteed, but say a c98% probability.

Arsenal today score a last minute winner when clearly it should have been disallowed for offside and maybe a c99% probability (not sure how much time was left seconds or a minute) and  the game ends in a draw.

Today 2nd-4th in the table is:
Arsenal  47
Spurs 46
Liverpool 45
City 43

With both incidents the TV evidence was there in seconds. Both black and white decisions and not a matter of opinion subject to debate.

The table could/should look like this:
Spurs 45
Liverpool 45
Arsenal 45
City 45.

That's 2 decisions and the potential impact is huge. Like others I think it is madness the available technology is not utilised.

There was also a stonewall penalty which Arsenal didn't get when Mustafi was tripped in their box a few minutes before he scored the opening goal - who knows what might have happened if that had been awarded?

[Karabiner]

Hull denied a clear penalty now.

[Archer]

City should have had a penalty at 75 minutes yesterday and Walker sent off. (BTW credit to Walker for admitting to the offence in the post match interview). Assuming YaYa with his 100% record scores the penalty City go 3-1 up against a 10 man Tottenham who at that point had not really created much. Let's say City go on to win, not guaranteed, but say a c98% probability.

Arsenal today score a last minute winner when clearly it should have been disallowed for offside and maybe a c99% probability (not sure how much time was left seconds or a minute) and  the game ends in a draw.

Today 2nd-4th in the table is:
Arsenal  47
Spurs 46
Liverpool 45
City 43

With both incidents the TV evidence was there in seconds. Both black and white decisions and not a matter of opinion subject to debate.

The table could/should look like this:
Spurs 45
Liverpool 45
Arsenal 45
City 45.

That's 2 decisions and the potential impact is huge. Like others I think it is madness the available technology is not utilised.

There was also a stonewall penalty which Arsenal didn't get when Mustafi was tripped in their box a few minutes before he scored the opening goal - who knows what might have happened if that had been awarded?

Beat you by 20 seconds with my edit! I agree BTW.

[lee h]

Easier Said than done. Loads say ' lets use video replays' But nobody ever puts down clearly and specifically when, where and how they would be used.
Other than 'for the big decisions' or ither such claptrap.

Pretty sure EUFA, FIFA and Prem League have thought about it and seen the problems.

[PokerBroker]

Easier Said than done. Loads say ' lets use video replays' But nobody ever puts down clearly and specifically when, where and how they would be used.
Other than 'for the big decisions' or ither such claptrap.

Pretty sure EUFA, FIFA and Prem League have thought about it and seen the problems.

So they lad behind the rest of the world?

You use them for any possible penalty or offside and award the coach with a challenge like the do in the NFL for example.  If you win your challenge if you keep it, it's gone. 

You show great faith in organisations like FIFA/UEFA/EPL without much justification.

[lee h]

Any possible penalty?

So after every corner then for sure?

When do you stop the play to review it?
How far back in the play do you go?
Who decided when there has been a 'possible penalty?

etc, etc

[PokerBroker]

Any possible penalty?

So after every corner then for sure?

When do you stop the play to review it?
How far back in the play do you go?
Who decided when there has been a 'possible penalty?

etc, etc

The manager with a challenge flag, it's not hard.

[lee h]

How long doesthe Manager have after the iincident to show his flag?

[TheDazzler]

Javi Garcia's 'goal' for Pool against Chelsea in Champions League. Maradonna's 'goal' against England in the World Cup. Geoff Hurst's 'goal' against Germany in World Cup Final. Iconic footballing moments, that'll be talked about forever.
Part of the joy of football is arguing 'what if's'. If you remove all officiating mistakes, you lose some of that emotive power.
Football has never been healthier. Changing a small thing can have a big impact. Who would have thought the back pass rule would have such a massive impact on the game? Thankfully it was a positive one but it remains to be seen how using widespread tv technology would change the landscape. It may have some negative aspects.
If all mistakes were corrected, the variance would presumably lessen? Therefore the stronger teams would prevail more often? Therefore football might become more predictable and a little less exciting?   
I'm not arguing one way or another, just playing Devils Advocate.

[Archer]

Easier Said than done. Loads say ' lets use video replays' But nobody ever puts down clearly and specifically when, where and how they would be used.
Other than 'for the big decisions' or ither such claptrap.

Pretty sure EUFA, FIFA and Prem League have thought about it and seen the problems.

It's not claptrap. It's real and imminent. I was aware of the trials but only just found out that VAR is being introduced in Germany from the start of next season.

March 2016
Cardiff, United Kingdom // The International Football Association Board (IFAB), which governs the rules of the game, has approved testing of video technology to aid match officials, it was announced on Saturday.
Experiments will be carried out over a two-year period starting no later than the 2017/18 season before a final decision is taken on whether to adopt the technology permanently.
Fifa described it as a "landmark decision" but said the experiments would allow IFAB "to identify the advantages, disadvantages and worst-case scenarios".
The trials will allow referees to call on video assistance to help determine four categories of game-changing moments -- goals scored, red cards, penalties and mistaken identity.

Sep16 to Dec 16 Trials in Bundesliga.  Bundesliga is running video assistant trials this season.
For the first part of this season - in 144 matches - 44 clear ref mistakes have been found.
33 of them could have been overruled based on the criteria in place (goals, pens, straight reds and mistaken identity for cards), about 2 decisions per matchday.

Jan17 VAR approved for use in Bundesliga from the start of next season:
http://www.worldsoccer.com/news/germanys-bundesliga-approves-use-of-video-assistant-referees-394359

PL will follow hopefully from 18/19.  

[muckthenuts]

Javi Garcia's 'goal' for Pool against Chelsea in Champions League. Maradonna's 'goal' against England in the World Cup. Geoff Hurst's 'goal' against Germany in World Cup Final. Iconic footballing moments, that'll be talked about forever.
Part of the joy of football is arguing 'what if's'. If you remove all officiating mistakes, you lose some of that emotive power.
Football has never been healthier. Changing a small thing can have a big impact. Who would have thought the back pass rule would have such a massive impact on the game? Thankfully it was a positive one but it remains to be seen how using widespread tv technology would change the landscape. It may have some negative aspects.
If all mistakes were corrected, the variance would presumably lessen? Therefore the stronger teams would prevail more often? Therefore football might become more predictable and a little less exciting?   
I'm not arguing one way or another, just playing Devils Advocate.

Good post. The fact that the rub of the green can possibly make a difference in every single game just adds to the magic of competitive sports surely. Also is it necessary? If football was dying (lol, ridiculous thought obv) then sure but seems to be growing fine as it is. Also naturally concerned that if they haven't figured it out yet in an industry as massive as football...well it probably can't be done.

[PokerBroker]

Javi Garcia's 'goal' for Pool against Chelsea in Champions League. Maradonna's 'goal' against England in the World Cup. Geoff Hurst's 'goal' against Germany in World Cup Final. Iconic footballing moments, that'll be talked about forever.
Part of the joy of football is arguing 'what if's'. If you remove all officiating mistakes, you lose some of that emotive power.
Football has never been healthier. Changing a small thing can have a big impact. Who would have thought the back pass rule would have such a massive impact on the game? Thankfully it was a positive one but it remains to be seen how using widespread tv technology would change the landscape. It may have some negative aspects.
If all mistakes were corrected, the variance would presumably lessen? Therefore the stronger teams would prevail more often? Therefore football might become more predictable and a little less exciting?   
I'm not arguing one way or another, just playing Devils Advocate.

Good post and I love the drama but I feel as a fan and punter there are far too many bad decisions being made and I would hope it cuts out the cheating we see week in week  out

[lee h]

So IFAB are going to have a 2 year trial period before deciding whether to go ahead?
Can't be that simple can it?

Also it is the referee who decides to use replays, so no 'video ref' which is what most people propose. No 'challenge flag' which people on here say is easily done!

Its so easy to do - yet so many different views and no firm protocol from anyone