Poker psychology question.

[Doobs]

I am on the button with 7 big blinds and shove with a pair of .

I get called by the big blind with AT.

When the flop comes down KQ3, why do I now feel worse than I did preflop?  It is clear that I am now in a better position and my opponent made a very standard call pre flop. 

I don't think I ever have a problem with losing flips, I just shrug and move on, but when this happens I get the fear.  It isn't even like I think that jack is going to fall more often than it should. 

So what is going on?

[celtic]

Just a thin flopped a set brag.

[Ledders]

Something to do with prospect theory I guess. Now we're decently ahead we start to hate risk. When the flop comes Axx and we have 10% we feel indifferent.

[rfgqqabc]

Plus the brain remembers the bad beats more and it knows it will feel worse than normal now to lose having hit a 3. Extra injustice with the flip loss.

[PocketAces]

I guess it may have to do with the stakes being higher i.e. you're not going to worry about losing $20 bucks as much as you would worry about losing $200, you know? Even though you felt good preflop knowing that you have a decent hand will send some anxiety through your body because now you have MORE to lose, as in a good hand. I wouldn't feel bad losing a semi-good hand but I'd be SUPER ANXIOUS to lose to a pair of aces. I hope I made sense. Ha!

[DaveShoelace]

My armchair guess would be that you fear the pain/frustration/tilt that comes with unfairly busting, much more than you fear busting. My old mucker Jared Tendler calls it the 'tilt of tilt' and a lot of his clients fear tilt itself more than any single money loss.

[TightEnd]

My armchair guess would be that you fear the pain/frustration/tilt that comes with unfairly busting, much more than you fear busting. My old mucker Jared Tendler calls it the 'tilt of tilt' and a lot of his clients fear tilt itself more than any single money loss.

How is Mr Tendler?

any more projects on the go with him? what is he up to?

[DaveShoelace]

My armchair guess would be that you fear the pain/frustration/tilt that comes with unfairly busting, much more than you fear busting. My old mucker Jared Tendler calls it the 'tilt of tilt' and a lot of his clients fear tilt itself more than any single money loss.

How is Mr Tendler?

any more projects on the go with him? what is he up to?

Yeah he is good, some interesting times for him actually as he is now getting a ton of clients in trading, which is quite a natural sideways move from poker. He also is the coach for an eSports team which he says is really interesting.

We have a small poker-y thing coming out the first half of this year which we will announce in due course, we also had a much bigger book project which we have put on hiatus for now because he is a bit too busy with other stuff.

[PocketAces]

After I read your question yesterday I was left pondering what poker and psychology have in common. I searched the internet wanting to learn more about how our mindset shifts based on the type of hands we have. I've always thought that poker was more about math than psychology but I do recall a few hands a few years ago that reminds me of your situation. I'd get all panicky the moment I realize "this could win me a lot of money, I can't mess up!!" to end up messing up because of the stakes being so high versus doing good with an okay hand that could win me more money. Weird. I found a cool site called https://pokerhack.com/strategy/betting-when-why-and-how/ and I learned some cool tricks about using math to enhance my skills but was really looking for psychology. Anyone recommend a book?

[Doobs]

After I read your question yesterday I was left pondering what poker and psychology have in common. I searched the internet wanting to learn more about how our mindset shifts based on the type of hands we have. I've always thought that poker was more about math than psychology but I do recall a few hands a few years ago that reminds me of your situation. I'd get all panicky the moment I realize "this could win me a lot of money, I can't mess up!!" to end up messing up because of the stakes being so high versus doing good with an okay hand that could win me more money. Weird. I found a cool site called https://pokerhack.com/strategy/betting-when-why-and-how/ and I learned some cool tricks about using math to enhance my skills but was really looking for psychology. Anyone recommend a book?

It isn't anythimg to do with the money, it is the same if it is $200 or $15 buy in.  I think Mr Shoelace is right, it is all around the bad beat getting worse, and the worse the bad beat is, the more scary the thought of it is.  Poker is a funny game, I don't find myself getting tilted when I lose gambling on horses, I just accept it.  Guess I have been doing it so long it washes over me, or maybe it is the more certainty I have that I have an edge and can make it back.

Not sure if you are serious, but The Mental Gane of Poker is a good book, would recomend it.   Mr Tendler seems a sound bloke, not sure on the other fella. 

[tikay]

After I read your question yesterday I was left pondering what poker and psychology have in common. I searched the internet wanting to learn more about how our mindset shifts based on the type of hands we have. I've always thought that poker was more about math than psychology but I do recall a few hands a few years ago that reminds me of your situation. I'd get all panicky the moment I realize "this could win me a lot of money, I can't mess up!!" to end up messing up because of the stakes being so high versus doing good with an okay hand that could win me more money. Weird. I found a cool site called https://pokerhack.com/strategy/betting-when-why-and-how/ and I learned some cool tricks about using math to enhance my skills but was really looking for psychology. Anyone recommend a book?

It isn't anythimg to do with the money, it is the same if it is $200 or $15 buy in.  I think Mr Shoelace is right, it is all around the bad beat getting worse, and the worse the bad beat is, the more scary the thought of it is.  Poker is a funny game, I don't find myself getting tilted when I lose gambling on horses, I just accept it.  Guess I have been doing it so long it washes over me, or maybe it is the more certainty I have that I have an edge and can make it back.

Not sure if you are serious, but The Mental Gane of Poker is a good book, would recomend it.   Mr Tendler seems a sound bloke, not sure on the other fella. 

I would wholeheartedly endorse that book. And Mr Tendler. Co-author fella might be a wrong 'un.

[DaveShoelace]

If anyone is troubled by the co-author, may I suggest they learn Italian and try that version:

[Doobs]

If anyone is troubled by the co-author, may I suggest they learn Italian and try that version:

Elbows too pointy

[PocketAces]

Thank you for the book recommendations.

[Marky_Crash]

Something to do with prospect theory I guess. Now we're decently ahead we start to hate risk. When the flop comes Axx and we have 10% we feel indifferent.

I would definitely go with this. People are 'loss averse' and Daniel Kanheman's Risk Aversion theory would explain the mindset on this flop. The bad beats really do stand out more, the times when we get outdrawn in these spots become etched in our minds more easily than when we hold.

He won a Nobel prize for economics as the implications of psychology upon economics are quite profound. Stands to reason that the same link applies between psychology and poker.

What I would find even more interesting is how this would affect our psychology in relation to starting hand selection and bet sizing choices generally. It likely has a big impact on these factors and 'getting to grips' with the implications could offer quite a few tells on opponents in general. I.E. player has AK on Kxx flop, how would being overly scared of losing, rather than fist pumping with confidence affect bet sizing. Probably helps explain at least partly why some people may have a tendancy to 'overjam' with small pairs for more equity than makes sense (fear of losing overtaking optimal bet sizing).