£154,000

[teddybloat]

She's middle class, white and the People's Little Girl. And she shifts units.

No amount is too much, innit.

Let's find maddie!

[Evilpengwinz]

It must be horrific to losing a child like this, I don't think it's possible to imagine the pain.

A line has to be draw at some point though.

You do wonder why we have chosen to spend £11 million on one case when hundreds of others get no resources or time.

Surely the best people to decide when to draw that line is the police?

They obviously feel there are further lines worth persuing.

While there are leads that haven't been fully explored, the money should be provided.

What are the chances of anything coming of further investigation though?  It's such a high profile case that, in the event that she wasn't killed at the time or shortly after, then whoever she ended up with will have killed her and disposed of every bit of evidence already to avoid being caught further down the line. Failing that, dying from illness or suicide as a result of her living conditions and probable treatment is also quite likely, and equally, the body will have been disposed of a long time ago if the kidnapper has any brains.

"The best people to decide when to draw that line are the police" - I would argue they're not at this point, given the high profile nature of the case they'll be biased towards solving the case irrespective of cost, purely out of pride. There's more than just the police clamouring for taxpayers' money and they need money for more than one case. If we gave money to everyone on the basis that they get to decide where to draw the line, it just wouldn't be possible to give everyone what they want, or even close to it.

I'd rather see £154k shipped to the NHS (No bus required), or chuck £154k at some crime prevention scheme that benefits more people in the future, or another case with a better prognosis, rather than trying to find one person with a minuscule chance of being alive where the most likely outcome is wasting £154k and going nowhere, and where the most likely 'positive' outcome is confirming Madeleine is dead, and even that is highly unlikely. At this point, it's like calling to try and hit a backdoor straight flush, two hands in a row, once to find her and again for her to be alive.

There's just better uses of money, IMO.

---

In the absolute best case scenario - What if she's been trafficked to some other country, and she is alive and well and being looked after?
- She likely won't remember her biological parents
- She is unlikely to speak much English
- She is likely to have a good relationship with her adoptive family
- It would be traumatic to remove her from her adoptive family, especially as she is unlikely to understand
- It is questionable whether she would want a relationship with her biological parents, given their failure to ensure her safety

Would it even be the right thing to take her out of that environment and return her to the UK in that scenario?

[The Camel]

It must be horrific to losing a child like this, I don't think it's possible to imagine the pain.

A line has to be draw at some point though.

You do wonder why we have chosen to spend £11 million on one case when hundreds of others get no resources or time.

Surely the best people to decide when to draw that line is the police?

They obviously feel there are further lines worth persuing.

While there are leads that haven't been fully explored, the money should be provided.

What are the chances of anything coming of further investigation though?  It's such a high profile case that, in the event that she wasn't killed at the time or shortly after, then whoever she ended up with will have killed her and disposed of every bit of evidence already to avoid being caught further down the line. Failing that, dying from illness or suicide as a result of her living conditions and probable treatment is also quite likely, and equally, the body will have been disposed of a long time ago if the kidnapper has any brains.

"The best people to decide when to draw that line are the police" - I would argue they're not at this point, given the high profile nature of the case they'll be biased towards solving the case irrespective of cost, purely out of pride. There's more than just the police clamouring for taxpayers' money and they need money for more than one case. If we gave money to everyone on the basis that they get to decide where to draw the line, it just wouldn't be possible to give everyone what they want, or even close to it.

I'd rather see £154k shipped to the NHS (No bus required), or chuck £154k at some crime prevention scheme that benefits more people in the future, or another case with a better prognosis, rather than trying to find one person with a minuscule chance of being alive where the most likely outcome is wasting £154k and going nowhere, and where the most likely 'positive' outcome is confirming Madeleine is dead, and even that is highly unlikely. At this point, it's like calling to try and hit a backdoor straight flush, two hands in a row, once to find her and again for her to be alive.

There's just better uses of money, IMO.

---

In the absolute best case scenario - What if she's been trafficked to some other country, and she is alive and well and being looked after?
- She likely won't remember her biological parents
- She is unlikely to speak much English
- She is likely to have a good relationship with her adoptive family
- It would be traumatic to remove her from her adoptive family, especially as she is unlikely to understand
- It is questionable whether she would want a relationship with her biological parents, given their failure to ensure her safety

Would it even be the right thing to take her out of that environment and return her to the UK in that scenario?

Are you absolutely mad? You think if she is alive she should not be reunited with her parents?

I can't believe more than a tiny fraction of people would agree with you.

[Evilpengwinz]

In the absolute best case scenario - What if she's been trafficked to some other country, and she is alive and well and being looked after?
- She likely won't remember her biological parents
- She is unlikely to speak much English
- She is likely to have a good relationship with her adoptive family
- It would be traumatic to remove her from her adoptive family, especially as she is unlikely to understand
- It is questionable whether she would want a relationship with her biological parents, given their failure to ensure her safety

Would it even be the right thing to take her out of that environment and return her to the UK in that scenario?

Are you absolutely mad? You think if she is alive she should not be reunited with her parents?

I can't believe more than a tiny fraction of people would agree with you.

You're putting words in my mouth, I didn't state a view one way or the other. Readless, reuniting if found tomorrow would be correct in the vast majority of cases, and should always be an option.

However, there's circumstances where we shouldn't necessarily bring her 'home'. What if she is found, age 21 with a child, in a relationship, happy etc - Surely you wouldn't force her (and by extension, her family) to move back to the UK then? What about 18 and at a university in whatever country she's in? 17 and living with her adoptive parents? What if moving back to the UK is against her will, how does that change things?

Obviously at age 12/13 (I think she'd be 13 now if she's alive?) there's no doubt about it, you take her home, make sure people looking after her are taken into custody, then question the hell out of them and find out wtf happened.

But my point is that if you find her, you're not dealing with a young child any more, you're dealing with a person who is becoming more mature, more independent and able to make decisions in life, increasingly so the longer it takes to find her - there's a decent chance she won't want anything to do with them (I wouldn't in her spot), may not want to leave her adoptive family, may not want to move to a 'foreign' country and/or potentially learn a new language if she's forgotten or never learned English - how do you handle that if you have the power to decide her fate? Do you go against her will if it's what her parents want? If you find her in 2/3/5/10 years time, how does that affect your thought process?

Where's the line where you're causing more harm than good by forcing a move back to the UK if she is living a normal life in a healthy environment, particularly considering age when found?

[TightEnd]

Click to see full-size image.

[tikay]

It must be horrific to losing a child like this, I don't think it's possible to imagine the pain.

A line has to be draw at some point though.

You do wonder why we have chosen to spend £11 million on one case when hundreds of others get no resources or time.

Surely the best people to decide when to draw that line is the police?

They obviously feel there are further lines worth persuing.

While there are leads that haven't been fully explored, the money should be provided.

What are the chances of anything coming of further investigation though?  It's such a high profile case that, in the event that she wasn't killed at the time or shortly after, then whoever she ended up with will have killed her and disposed of every bit of evidence already to avoid being caught further down the line. Failing that, dying from illness or suicide as a result of her living conditions and probable treatment is also quite likely, and equally, the body will have been disposed of a long time ago if the kidnapper has any brains.

"The best people to decide when to draw that line are the police" - I would argue they're not at this point, given the high profile nature of the case they'll be biased towards solving the case irrespective of cost, purely out of pride. There's more than just the police clamouring for taxpayers' money and they need money for more than one case. If we gave money to everyone on the basis that they get to decide where to draw the line, it just wouldn't be possible to give everyone what they want, or even close to it.

I'd rather see £154k shipped to the NHS (No bus required), or chuck £154k at some crime prevention scheme that benefits more people in the future, or another case with a better prognosis, rather than trying to find one person with a minuscule chance of being alive where the most likely outcome is wasting £154k and going nowhere, and where the most likely 'positive' outcome is confirming Madeleine is dead, and even that is highly unlikely. At this point, it's like calling to try and hit a backdoor straight flush, two hands in a row, once to find her and again for her to be alive.

There's just better uses of money, IMO.

---

In the absolute best case scenario - What if she's been trafficked to some other country, and she is alive and well and being looked after?
- She likely won't remember her biological parents
- She is unlikely to speak much English
- She is likely to have a good relationship with her adoptive family
- It would be traumatic to remove her from her adoptive family, especially as she is unlikely to understand
- It is questionable whether she would want a relationship with her biological parents, given their failure to ensure her safety

Would it even be the right thing to take her out of that environment and return her to the UK in that scenario?

Excellent post, imo.

Ditto the Post by RickBFA.

Fair or otherwise, at some point a line has to be drawn.

Do the Police make this much effort in every case of missing children?

[The Camel]

It must be horrific to losing a child like this, I don't think it's possible to imagine the pain.

A line has to be draw at some point though.

You do wonder why we have chosen to spend £11 million on one case when hundreds of others get no resources or time.

Surely the best people to decide when to draw that line is the police?

They obviously feel there are further lines worth persuing.

While there are leads that haven't been fully explored, the money should be provided.

What are the chances of anything coming of further investigation though?  It's such a high profile case that, in the event that she wasn't killed at the time or shortly after, then whoever she ended up with will have killed her and disposed of every bit of evidence already to avoid being caught further down the line. Failing that, dying from illness or suicide as a result of her living conditions and probable treatment is also quite likely, and equally, the body will have been disposed of a long time ago if the kidnapper has any brains.

"The best people to decide when to draw that line are the police" - I would argue they're not at this point, given the high profile nature of the case they'll be biased towards solving the case irrespective of cost, purely out of pride. There's more than just the police clamouring for taxpayers' money and they need money for more than one case. If we gave money to everyone on the basis that they get to decide where to draw the line, it just wouldn't be possible to give everyone what they want, or even close to it.

I'd rather see £154k shipped to the NHS (No bus required), or chuck £154k at some crime prevention scheme that benefits more people in the future, or another case with a better prognosis, rather than trying to find one person with a minuscule chance of being alive where the most likely outcome is wasting £154k and going nowhere, and where the most likely 'positive' outcome is confirming Madeleine is dead, and even that is highly unlikely. At this point, it's like calling to try and hit a backdoor straight flush, two hands in a row, once to find her and again for her to be alive.

There's just better uses of money, IMO.

---

In the absolute best case scenario - What if she's been trafficked to some other country, and she is alive and well and being looked after?
- She likely won't remember her biological parents
- She is unlikely to speak much English
- She is likely to have a good relationship with her adoptive family
- It would be traumatic to remove her from her adoptive family, especially as she is unlikely to understand
- It is questionable whether she would want a relationship with her biological parents, given their failure to ensure her safety

Would it even be the right thing to take her out of that environment and return her to the UK in that scenario?

Excellent post, imo.

Ditto the Post by RickBFA.

Fair or otherwise, at some point a line has to be drawn.

Do the Police make this much effort in every case of missing children?

Why has there got to be a line drawn?

There is very possibily a very dangerous paedophile on the loose in the area where Maddie disappeared

Are you going to explain to parents of the next child abducted that the police were working to catch the criminal but "the line had to be drawn" and funding was withdrawn.

[tikay]

It must be horrific to losing a child like this, I don't think it's possible to imagine the pain.

A line has to be draw at some point though.

You do wonder why we have chosen to spend £11 million on one case when hundreds of others get no resources or time.

Surely the best people to decide when to draw that line is the police?

They obviously feel there are further lines worth persuing.

While there are leads that haven't been fully explored, the money should be provided.

What are the chances of anything coming of further investigation though?  It's such a high profile case that, in the event that she wasn't killed at the time or shortly after, then whoever she ended up with will have killed her and disposed of every bit of evidence already to avoid being caught further down the line. Failing that, dying from illness or suicide as a result of her living conditions and probable treatment is also quite likely, and equally, the body will have been disposed of a long time ago if the kidnapper has any brains.

"The best people to decide when to draw that line are the police" - I would argue they're not at this point, given the high profile nature of the case they'll be biased towards solving the case irrespective of cost, purely out of pride. There's more than just the police clamouring for taxpayers' money and they need money for more than one case. If we gave money to everyone on the basis that they get to decide where to draw the line, it just wouldn't be possible to give everyone what they want, or even close to it.

I'd rather see £154k shipped to the NHS (No bus required), or chuck £154k at some crime prevention scheme that benefits more people in the future, or another case with a better prognosis, rather than trying to find one person with a minuscule chance of being alive where the most likely outcome is wasting £154k and going nowhere, and where the most likely 'positive' outcome is confirming Madeleine is dead, and even that is highly unlikely. At this point, it's like calling to try and hit a backdoor straight flush, two hands in a row, once to find her and again for her to be alive.

There's just better uses of money, IMO.

---

In the absolute best case scenario - What if she's been trafficked to some other country, and she is alive and well and being looked after?
- She likely won't remember her biological parents
- She is unlikely to speak much English
- She is likely to have a good relationship with her adoptive family
- It would be traumatic to remove her from her adoptive family, especially as she is unlikely to understand
- It is questionable whether she would want a relationship with her biological parents, given their failure to ensure her safety

Would it even be the right thing to take her out of that environment and return her to the UK in that scenario?

Excellent post, imo.

Ditto the Post by RickBFA.

Fair or otherwise, at some point a line has to be drawn.

Do the Police make this much effort in every case of missing children?

Why has there got to be a line drawn?

There is very possibily a very dangerous paedophile on the loose in the area where Maddie disappeared

Are you going to explain to parents of the next child abducted that the police were working to catch the criminal but "the line had to be drawn" and funding was withdrawn.

Well possibly, yes, but if so, he appears to have been dormant for over a decade now, & I'm not aware of any other similar cases in the area?

There must be - literally - thousands of similar unsolved cases Europe-wide. Are they all still being investigated, was £11 million spent on each case? The answer is no, as we don't live in an ideal world & resources are finite. I really have no idea how this particular case has been pursued so long.

[The Camel]

And as for "Do the Police make this much effort in every case of missing children?"

This is a complete red herring.

Police will work on a case until they have exhausted all leads.

It's obvious that Maddie is a very complex and intricate case with lots of lines of inquiry.

When they have reason to believe they have exhausted all possible leads, that is the time to stop investigating. And they should be ready to re open the case as soon as any new evidence appears.

[tikay]

And as for "Do the Police make this much effort in every case of missing children?"

This is a complete red herring.

Police will work on a case until they have exhausted all leads.

It's obvious that Maddie is a very complex and intricate case with lots of lines of inquiry.

When they have reason to believe they have exhausted all possible leads, that is the time to stop investigating. And they should be ready to re open the case as soon as any new evidence appears.

I would suggest they have exhausted all leads - all credible ones, anyway.

If folks pop up with new information after all this time, I'm not sure that amounts to "credible".

[The Camel]

Look at this case:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/mystery-dead-man-dovestones-saddleworth-11799696

A man died on Saddleworth with no ID.

Police spent a fortune reseaching and investigating a case where no crime had been committed!

I trust the police are only asking for extra money because they believe it is worthwhile. And who are we to question that?

[RickBFA]

It must be horrific to losing a child like this, I don't think it's possible to imagine the pain.

A line has to be draw at some point though.

You do wonder why we have chosen to spend £11 million on one case when hundreds of others get no resources or time.

Surely the best people to decide when to draw that line is the police?

They obviously feel there are further lines worth persuing.

While there are leads that haven't been fully explored, the money should be provided.

What are the chances of anything coming of further investigation though?  It's such a high profile case that, in the event that she wasn't killed at the time or shortly after, then whoever she ended up with will have killed her and disposed of every bit of evidence already to avoid being caught further down the line. Failing that, dying from illness or suicide as a result of her living conditions and probable treatment is also quite likely, and equally, the body will have been disposed of a long time ago if the kidnapper has any brains.

"The best people to decide when to draw that line are the police" - I would argue they're not at this point, given the high profile nature of the case they'll be biased towards solving the case irrespective of cost, purely out of pride. There's more than just the police clamouring for taxpayers' money and they need money for more than one case. If we gave money to everyone on the basis that they get to decide where to draw the line, it just wouldn't be possible to give everyone what they want, or even close to it.

I'd rather see £154k shipped to the NHS (No bus required), or chuck £154k at some crime prevention scheme that benefits more people in the future, or another case with a better prognosis, rather than trying to find one person with a minuscule chance of being alive where the most likely outcome is wasting £154k and going nowhere, and where the most likely 'positive' outcome is confirming Madeleine is dead, and even that is highly unlikely. At this point, it's like calling to try and hit a backdoor straight flush, two hands in a row, once to find her and again for her to be alive.

There's just better uses of money, IMO.

---

In the absolute best case scenario - What if she's been trafficked to some other country, and she is alive and well and being looked after?
- She likely won't remember her biological parents
- She is unlikely to speak much English
- She is likely to have a good relationship with her adoptive family
- It would be traumatic to remove her from her adoptive family, especially as she is unlikely to understand
- It is questionable whether she would want a relationship with her biological parents, given their failure to ensure her safety

Would it even be the right thing to take her out of that environment and return her to the UK in that scenario?

Excellent post, imo.

Ditto the Post by RickBFA.

Fair or otherwise, at some point a line has to be drawn.

Do the Police make this much effort in every case of missing children?

Why has there got to be a line drawn?

There is very possibily a very dangerous paedophile on the loose in the area where Maddie disappeared

Are you going to explain to parents of the next child abducted that the police were working to catch the criminal but "the line had to be drawn" and funding was withdrawn.

Camel, we don't live in a perfect world where we can put almost unlimited funding into every case.

Don't the Portuguese have a responsibility in that regard if there is a paedophile at loose in their country?

No one can say that the investigation hasn't been more than well funded.

We don't have an endless supply of funds. We have funded this case to the tune of £11m. Given the number of children that disappear, don't you agree this case has been given an unusual level of manpower and funding compared to others?

[lucky_scrote]

Are you going to explain to parents of the next child abducted that the police were working to catch the criminal but "the line had to be drawn" and funding was withdrawn.

A lot of money has been exhausted on this case, possibly much more tax payers money than on any other single case. I don't think if someones child is kidnapped in Portugal tomorrow that any rational parents would have been blamed the police for "drawing the line somewhere".

[The Camel]

It must be horrific to losing a child like this, I don't think it's possible to imagine the pain.

A line has to be draw at some point though.

You do wonder why we have chosen to spend £11 million on one case when hundreds of others get no resources or time.

Surely the best people to decide when to draw that line is the police?

They obviously feel there are further lines worth persuing.

While there are leads that haven't been fully explored, the money should be provided.

What are the chances of anything coming of further investigation though?  It's such a high profile case that, in the event that she wasn't killed at the time or shortly after, then whoever she ended up with will have killed her and disposed of every bit of evidence already to avoid being caught further down the line. Failing that, dying from illness or suicide as a result of her living conditions and probable treatment is also quite likely, and equally, the body will have been disposed of a long time ago if the kidnapper has any brains.

"The best people to decide when to draw that line are the police" - I would argue they're not at this point, given the high profile nature of the case they'll be biased towards solving the case irrespective of cost, purely out of pride. There's more than just the police clamouring for taxpayers' money and they need money for more than one case. If we gave money to everyone on the basis that they get to decide where to draw the line, it just wouldn't be possible to give everyone what they want, or even close to it.

I'd rather see £154k shipped to the NHS (No bus required), or chuck £154k at some crime prevention scheme that benefits more people in the future, or another case with a better prognosis, rather than trying to find one person with a minuscule chance of being alive where the most likely outcome is wasting £154k and going nowhere, and where the most likely 'positive' outcome is confirming Madeleine is dead, and even that is highly unlikely. At this point, it's like calling to try and hit a backdoor straight flush, two hands in a row, once to find her and again for her to be alive.

There's just better uses of money, IMO.

---

In the absolute best case scenario - What if she's been trafficked to some other country, and she is alive and well and being looked after?
- She likely won't remember her biological parents
- She is unlikely to speak much English
- She is likely to have a good relationship with her adoptive family
- It would be traumatic to remove her from her adoptive family, especially as she is unlikely to understand
- It is questionable whether she would want a relationship with her biological parents, given their failure to ensure her safety

Would it even be the right thing to take her out of that environment and return her to the UK in that scenario?

Excellent post, imo.

Ditto the Post by RickBFA.

Fair or otherwise, at some point a line has to be drawn.

Do the Police make this much effort in every case of missing children?

Why has there got to be a line drawn?

There is very possibily a very dangerous paedophile on the loose in the area where Maddie disappeared

Are you going to explain to parents of the next child abducted that the police were working to catch the criminal but "the line had to be drawn" and funding was withdrawn.

Camel, we don't live in a perfect world where we can put almost unlimited funding into every case.

Don't the Portuguese have a responsibility in that regard if there is a paedophile at loose in their country?

No one can say that the investigation hasn't been more than well funded.

We don't have an endless supply of funds. We have funded this case to the tune of £11m. Given the number of children that disappear, don't you agree this case has been given an unusual level of manpower and funding compared to others?

Yes of course I do.

But it is down the police to decide when and if they stop investigating not the media or the public.

They must have a reason they need extra funding.

[The Camel]

Are you going to explain to parents of the next child abducted that the police were working to catch the criminal but "the line had to be drawn" and funding was withdrawn.

A lot of money has been exhausted on this case, possibly much more tax payers money than on any other single case. I don't think if someones child is kidnapped in Portugal tomorrow that any rational parents would have been blamed the police for "drawing the line somewhere".

If it turns out a paedophile has murdered Maddie and he is caught after murdering another child, you don't think there would be outrage that the police had stopped looking into Maddie's case?