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Author Topic: Vegas shooting  (Read 9562 times)
Graham C
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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2017, 08:16:20 AM »

Agree with Doobs but not sure how running to get loads of guns is going to help the situation.
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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2017, 08:18:12 AM »

Some things experts think could prevent mass shootings.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/10/upshot/How-to-Prevent-Gun-Deaths-The-Views-of-Experts-and-the-Public.html

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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2017, 08:21:58 AM »

Headlines in the Onion

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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2017, 09:50:34 AM »

With respect to Doobs, I don't give a feck what the police advise, if someone is spraying bullets around, I'm running away.
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tikay
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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2017, 10:44:02 AM »

Aside from being a thoroughly ghastly affair, the story fascinates.

In most previous cases of mass shootings, there is a political, racial, religious, terrorist, or idealistic motive, but none of those seem to be present this time.

The only minimal clue is that his Dad was a bit of a bank robber, & mentally flakey.

I guess at some stage the reasons will become clear.

For sure, he was well tooled up. The number of weapons he owned have been variously reported as 23 at the Hotel, 19 at his main residence, & 11 at his Reno house. He had set up cameras in his hotel room & in the corridor outside, too.

A really weird - & very tragic - story.

A book about the whole thing will be in the shops by Christmas, for sure.  
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 10:45:40 AM by tikay » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2017, 10:59:47 AM »

I think if anything this might inspire other people in similar mindsets to do something similar. I can completely see how down people might see it very cool that "anybody" can take on the police here. If you're a loner and feel like you have ran bad in some way that is not justified then this is in a sick way in these kind of people's minds a "cool" way to get out. You also have been nothing all your life, nobody knows you etc, perfect way to be centre stage.

Somebody told me yesterday (could be total bs) that Canada has similar gun control as America but just don't have any attacks.
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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2017, 12:44:45 PM »

Here's a link to a fairly recent article on the subject:

 http://www.nationalobserver.com/2015/12/04/news/how-american-gun-deaths-and-gun-laws-compare-canadas
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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2017, 03:09:35 PM »

Aside from being a thoroughly ghastly affair, the story fascinates.

In most previous cases of mass shootings, there is a political, racial, religious, terrorist, or idealistic motive, but none of those seem to be present this time.

The only minimal clue is that his Dad was a bit of a bank robber, & mentally flakey.

I guess at some stage the reasons will become clear.

For sure, he was well tooled up. The number of weapons he owned have been variously reported as 23 at the Hotel, 19 at his main residence, & 11 at his Reno house. He had set up cameras in his hotel room & in the corridor outside, too.

A really weird - & very tragic - story.

A book about the whole thing will be in the shops by Christmas, for sure.  

Looks like it was extremely well planned and executed (sadly).

10 suitcases of weapons, 2 vantage points to flick between, cameras stationed to keep an eye on proceedings, modified guns for maximum impact. It simply didn't matter that he couldn't aim at anyone or anything in particular, the spray of bullets into a large crowded area was going to, and did, hit hundreds of random targets.

I can't help but feel money might be at least partially behind it (maybe clutching at straws but there doesn't seem to be any obvious motive). By all accounts he was a wealthy man, with numerous properties, and loved a high stakes gamble. Had he lost his net worth? Though reports are that he wired $100k to Asia just a few days before the shooting, so it really is a grey area.
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tikay
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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2017, 05:00:40 PM »

Security at Vegas Casinos? Barry Carter tells us how it will be. And, he hopes, gets comped at The Wynn.


 https://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/world-of-poker/Las-Vegas-security-under-scrutiny_102208/
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« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2017, 05:51:34 PM »

On a similar level as above, what are people's thoughts on the response time? It was 72 minutes between the first call to the emergency services and before they breached his room....

I did what I really try to avoid doing, and had to comment on someone's post on an Independent article yesterday on FB. He was criticizing the length of time, and comparing it to recent London terror attacks where the police were on the scene in minutes.

I felt compelled to point out that the 2 scenarios really aren't comparable; its much easier to identify a person or persons walking the streets causing havoc with knives. The Vegas threat was a whole different kettle of fish; the gunman could've been anywhere, so you have to narrow it down to the correct building, then floor, then room.....all the while whilst a shower of bullets is spraying down and you've got thousands of people fleeing in all directions, causing mass panic.

72 minutes does sound long, and it must have felt like a lifetime if you were involved, but I think given the unique circumstances, its not particularly slow. See what the investigation says, but my instincts feel that whilst it might not have been fast, it also wasn't slow.
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« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2017, 05:59:05 PM »

On a similar level as above, what are people's thoughts on the response time? It was 72 minutes between the first call to the emergency services and before they breached his room....

I did what I really try to avoid doing, and had to comment on someone's post on an Independent article yesterday on FB. He was criticizing the length of time, and comparing it to recent London terror attacks where the police were on the scene in minutes.

I felt compelled to point out that the 2 scenarios really aren't comparable; its much easier to identify a person or persons walking the streets causing havoc with knives. The Vegas threat was a whole different kettle of fish; the gunman could've been anywhere, so you have to narrow it down to the correct building, then floor, then room.....all the while whilst a shower of bullets is spraying down and you've got thousands of people fleeing in all directions, causing mass panic.

72 minutes does sound long, and it must have felt like a lifetime if you were involved, but I think given the unique circumstances, its not particularly slow. See what the investigation says, but my instincts feel that whilst it might not have been fast, it also wasn't slow.

Seems reasonable to me.

Finding the correct floor, & room, was a headache in itself. Then they had to get the right kit & a trained SWAT Team ready.

Earlier, a Hotel security guy knocked on the gunman's door, & received a hail of bullets through the door in response.

Just getting on the clobber the SWAT guys wear must take half an hour.  Pretty sure they don't sit around in that gear all day.






 
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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2017, 06:02:30 PM »

The shooting only lasted 11 minutes though.

Had he still been shooting when they got on the scene I imagine the breach would have been sooner.

He had cameras on the corridor and likely shot himself when he knew he was surrounded.

That places their arrival on the scene closer to 11.minutes than 72.
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« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2017, 06:08:00 PM »

On a similar level as above, what are people's thoughts on the response time? It was 72 minutes between the first call to the emergency services and before they breached his room....

I did what I really try to avoid doing, and had to comment on someone's post on an Independent article yesterday on FB. He was criticizing the length of time, and comparing it to recent London terror attacks where the police were on the scene in minutes.

I felt compelled to point out that the 2 scenarios really aren't comparable; its much easier to identify a person or persons walking the streets causing havoc with knives. The Vegas threat was a whole different kettle of fish; the gunman could've been anywhere, so you have to narrow it down to the correct building, then floor, then room.....all the while whilst a shower of bullets is spraying down and you've got thousands of people fleeing in all directions, causing mass panic.

72 minutes does sound long, and it must have felt like a lifetime if you were involved, but I think given the unique circumstances, its not particularly slow. See what the investigation says, but my instincts feel that whilst it might not have been fast, it also wasn't slow.

Not to forget the amount of conflicting information they would have been receiving. Can you imagine how busy the emergency service line would have been?

Thinking like a criminal here, I have always thought Vegas is the perfect target for someone looking to cause as much havoc and damage as possible. Walk into the Amazon room, lob a few grenades, whip out an auto and let rip. Security is extremely weak as you just have those mall cop style people in yellow shirts stood by the doors talking to one another.
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« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2017, 10:45:03 PM »

Weren't the windows smashed open? Surely shouldn't have been that difficult to identify the room.

I was reading that a lot of people want there to be snipers at all gigs like this, maybe abit overkill.
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« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2017, 11:02:12 PM »

Weren't the windows smashed open? Surely shouldn't have been that difficult to identify the room.

I was reading that a lot of people want there to be snipers at all gigs like this, maybe abit overkill.

Perhaps when its light, and you know what you're looking for. And there isn't a hail of bullets, bodies and people running everywhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mandalay+bay+shooting&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi1t6CK-9fWAhXjI8AKHYlwDZYQ_AUICygC&biw=1366&bih=652#imgrc=JeIyr04PJ5d_1M:

Easy to identify the windows?
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