Live cash game

[rivered]

Morning all,

Right, pretty sure I made a silly move here, but just wondering what you all think - advice much appreciated...

Playing the £60 freezeout at the vic yesterday.  45 runners, down to 19 i think, and it was paying to 10th or 9th place.  On a table of 7 players.  Blinds are eating us up - 200/400 with everyone on the table pretty evens on chips at around 3k each.  The big stacks were on other tables.  Everyone is playing tight, and generally there's on big bet per round who takes the blinds, no real betting going on.

My BB, and the cards have been very cold - i've not had anything for a few rounds, and the times I think about raising it up with marginal hands, someone is all in before me.  So my thinking is I need to defend my blinds at some point.  Anyway, a guy in mid pos raises it up to 1,200 - around half his stack.  I have QTo.  Everyone folds.  I chose to call with the intention of going all in whatever the flop.  A24 on the flop and he flips A8s after I go in, and I'm out.

Not much info on the guy - only been at the table for around 20 hands, and he's bet once and taken the pot without showing.

I want to know if:

1. I should've been more patient even though the blinds were getting big, and waited for a better spot... bear in mind i hadn't done much and I had the feeling people were starting to see me as a target
2. Or should I have gone all in preflop over the top of him.  Although I think he would've had odds of around 2-1, so prob would've called.
3.  Any other ideas / general comments

Cheers!

[temp0r]

definately a bad move. you've gotta be more patience. i'm not a fan of blind defence at all. and in this situation it aint all that important.
you definately shouldn't be calling with QT. when tournaments get to this stage it's all-in or pass pre-flop really unless it's 2 monster stacks going at each other.

yes ok. you needed chips if you were gonna make a cash eventually. but the fact that the guy raised and didn't just go straight all-in to me says he's probably more strong than he would be if he'd gone straight all-in. it looks like he doesn't mind a customer. you should be throwing you're rags away in a second in this situation. it hurts. but it's the most valuable lesson in tournament play i've learnt. and trust me. i learnt it the hard way.

patience is normally the thing that seperates the good players. with the good players who make the final tables.

[jezza777]

I think I would wait for an opportunity to get my money in first or at least a hand better than q10 to call with. With the stack sizes and blinda there is no room for manovure (sp) here and  dont think that this was a viable play. I would have prefered an all in from the bb preflop as at least you give him the opportunity to fold. I would have much prefered a fold tho.

[TightEnd]

A call is bad here. You have IMO to be first in with a raise in these type of situations, its a fold. If you think he will lay down, then go over the top all in and pray he folds

[rivered]

thanks chaps - was kinda expecting these replies.  Just wanted to make sure it was silly! 

But.... let's say I had something that you can play with.  Then do you think the move was the right one (just calling then all-in on any flop).  I did it this way around because by going all in over the top, he had 2-1 odds to call (he had around 2k left and pot woulda been aroudn 4k), so he should really be calling with anything.  That's why i only called - I was hoping he'd miss the flop, and then lay down to my all-in.  As it happens he didn't, but I thought he'd miss and lay down more often that not, and that I'd be more likely to push him off this way than by going all in preflop.

What are your thoughts on that?

[TightEnd]

If you have a monster then you can flat call and either trap post flop or stop and go. fine.

However you are more likely to get a call to double you up if you go all in pre flop really (it looks weaker, yes?), assuming he has a hand

[AndrewT]

There's nothing wrong with the stop and go in these situations (consult Ariston for a proper stop'n'go evangelist ). However, you have to be wary of flops with an Ace - pre-flop raisers are most likely to have an Ace (especially in the situation you describe - first in, many players view any Ace as a raising hand).

The stop and go is very flop-dependent - ideally you want one high-ish card and a couple of rags, to give your bet believability, and to maximise the chances of your opponent having missed.

[rivered]

Great Cheers.

I guess this leads me on to the general topic of defending your blinds in this situation, when the table has fewer players (say 6 or 7) and the blinds are getting big so the average stack is c.8xBB.  When faced with a preflop raiser and it's folded to you on BB, what is the minimum requirement for going all in against him (or stop and go)?  Assume it's been quite a passive table.  And if you've had 82o on the BB three rounds in a row, do you just keep letting your blinds get taken, and keep waiting for a good spot?

I guess I've heard 'defending your blinds' being spoken about, but never had the methods explained when you're in a fairly tight spot.

Thanks, J

[TightEnd]

To my mind when you are in a tight spot the issue moves away from defending your blinds to enable you to give amessage to the table towards the importance of having first in "vigorish" as long as you have sufficient chips (above 7x bb) to retain bluff/fold equity

So hands like AQ/AJ/A10/KQ/KJ and low pairs are far better with first mover advantage. You don't really want a call but hey they might fold to your raise.

If you have those hands facing a raise then you may be facing any large pair or AK.


Be first to get your chips in when in a tight spot!

[jezza777]

Dont worry too much about releasing your bb hand as long as you are left with enough chips to pull off a steal. I would much rather have folded the q10 and then moved in with any 2 cards from the button or cutoff .

[rivered]

Cheers all, I think I was caught up with the fact that I had folded all my blinds for the few rounds before and that my table image was getting a beating.  I had some awful hands in the early positions and just kept thinking 'next round i'll get something semi-decent to move in with'... then I looked down and saw AA, but the cards turned out to be QT!  I am used to being patient, but not used to playing live games at all, and felt I was under more scrutiny and pressure to look strong (which I guess you are, and that's one of the big differences between live and internet play).  Good lesson...