Cheat?

[danmonkey]

An incident witnessed last night:

£5 rebuy tournament, freezeout stage.  Players, A, B and C are in a pot raised by Player C.  Flop is checked to player C who asks the dealer “Pot please?” as far as I heard, though he may have said “Whats the pot please?”

As the dealer is counting out the chips, Player A moves all his stack into the middle, just less than the value of the pot.  Player B insta-folds.  Player C then states that he had asked for the size of the pot and had not bet yet (this seemed to be the dealers understanding).  Player D then intervened and said that player C had done this before to him, which player C denied. 
Player D then stood up and announced to the cardroom that Player C was a cheat.

Some context, Player C is a relative newbie and throughout the night had not moved a chip before verbally stating “Raise” or “Call”.  Player D is an old-timer who likes to consider himself a sage of the game and table captain/bully.

The resolution:  Player C stated that he had intended to raise a third of the pot which he duly put in then mucked his cards.  Player A was very happy with this outcome (even with absolute rags Player C had pot odds to call once his bet was in there).  The dealer was happy and play moved on.  Player D continued to stand and shout that Player C was a cheat until the cardroom manager intervened.  He asked Player C to clear state ‘What is the size of the pot?’ in future and Player D to calm down.

Player C had been playing solidly all night but was clearly rattled and blew off his stack in two quick hands shortly afterwards.

A little time later, Player D was asked by another player why he had failed to call from the small blind when the big blind was all in.  The answer was that the big blind was his brother!

My questions:  Who is shooting the angle here? Should Player C or D have been reprimanded for his behaviour and what should have been done?

[rivered]

I don't know exact rules etc, so I don't know what should have happened.... however, I do know that there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking the size of the pot... it happens all the time in poker - lets you know the size of the pot and lets you gauge the reaction of the other players... even if he said 'pot please', how is that raising? 
Player D sounds like a bit of a wally and he should've been dealt with (not sure how!).  Not sure what the rules are on player A but he acted out of turn, and should also be subject to whatever rules were in place.

[Ironside]

player d just admited to cheating and should be barred from every casino in the land

[winkie]

Agree 100% with iron...!

I've seen many 'player D' types who accuse others of cheating/colluding, but who in reality are the biggest cheats themselves. Can't stand them and shouldn't have to put up with them. End of.

[RED-DOG]

Player A should wait until player C's chips are IN THE POT before he makes his move

(And D should be punched, quietly, near the exit door)

[owner]

Player D should wait until player C's chips are IN THE POT before he makes his move

(And he should be punched, quietly, near the exit door)

Player D wasn't even in the hand, he should keep quiet IMOO.

[patman]

and what was the dealer doing when d was shouting the odds..

C clearly didnt say raise or call or move a chip so D stands for diddy.
why did A move his chips in the middle ...acting out of turn as well....

seems as if c was the only guy who did nothing wrong...

[thediceman]

Player D should have been dragged out into the car park & given a kickin. Which casino is this???. If drawn on player D's table I would say "pot please" every hand just to provoke a reaction

[AndrewT]

I think that Player A had obviously a flopped a monster, and was simply so excited at thinking he heard Player C bet the pot, and that his check-raise had worked,  that he couldn't get his chips in the middle quickly enough.

Player D is exactly the reason why some debut live players never return.

[RED-DOG]

Player D should wait until player C's chips are IN THE POT before he makes his move

(And he should be punched, quietly, near the exit door)

Player D wasn't even in the hand, he should keep quiet IMOO.

Oops, my mistake, changed it now

[lazaroonie]

Player A should wait until player C's chips are IN THE POT before he makes his move

(And D should be punched, quietly, near the exit door)

Is that a Euphemism ? or maybe a Woofemism ?

[daveb]

player D is the only cheat for chip dumping to his brother to which he has admitted and depending on the rules of the casino/cardroom should have been disqualified

[danmonkey]

Stanley St. Annes in Lancashire is the casino.

Player C was not trying to shoot an angle I'm sure and Player D is a disgrace IMO. 

I've not been playing there so long but I've had a few run ins with him (he called me allsorts of names after I limp reraised with Aces in first position in a pot he raised  -  apparently I don't know how to play the game).  However, he seems to be tolerated by one and all.  Another habit of his is talking to his brother in what I think is Turkish. 

I really dislike the way that this kind of intimidating behaviour is just accepted by the staff and longer standing players, as a relative newbie myself its enough to make me think twice about leaving the comfort of my broadband connection to make the 20 mile round trip.

[daveb]

get these same sort of people at teeside where i play, i find the best approach is to purposely wind them up but at the same time show your not intimidated by them at all.

[yt]

Player C should not have put in 1/3 of the pot. His actions were clearly understood by the dealer and most players. If A gives away information to C before C has acted he can bloody well fold if he likes. It was incredably honest of C to stick in the 1/3 of the pot.
Player D wasn't in the hand and should shut up. Dealer/tourney director seemed to handle it well. Its a shame for player C that he let it get to him....