The Ongoing Debate

[RED-DOG]

The buzz stop is outside

[tikay]

Luton.

At the Fessie before last (I missed the last one) , several of us went to Carmel & suggested that, in our opinion, the structure was top heavy.

She changed it IMMEDIATELy - there & then, & there were no complaints about the new, flatter, structure.

So it CAN be done, & it HAS been done, & lets applaud Carmel for her brave initiative.

There is no reason at all to be defeatist about this issue, if it needs changing we CAN help change it & the Casinos WILL listen if they are approached in the right manner. Sometimes, you know, it's not what you ask, it's how you ask it. A little good manners & diplomacy can go a very long way.

Walsall have agreed to change it for the next Fessie, I assume Luton will do the same - progress IS being made, & they ARE listening. But Supertankers do take a while to change diection.

Softly softly catchee monkee.....

[snoopy1239]

I remember the next festival tikay tho, when you and I were in the final of the 300. I came 5th or something and went away with a grand, whilst 1st prize was several k. Not surprisingly, it ended in a deal.

Any idea why they didn't stick with the less top heavy structure?

I'm sure it was well received.

[RED-DOG]

Ahh, the old 'Good cop, bad cop' routine!

[dan]

As a recreational player I like the tournament payout structure as it was at the Festival main event. Imagine winning the Blu Square sat and then going home with £70k. It is why people play the game. I can understand the proffessionals wanting a flatter structure but the alure of the top place life changing cash is why most non pros play. I would never agree to deal as it ended up at Walsall .The thought of tens of thousands riding on your skill and the turn of a card is the biggest buzz. This is why I want to play big events. We all play poker to win and when you win a tournament main event you should win big.

I respect and understand everyones views but just dont agree with the majority here.

good luck

jezza

I wouldn't have dealt either. Guaranteed 19.5k already. Go for it!!! Live a little.

snoops what happened last time you were at the final of the £300 in walsall?

[bobby1]

Luton has some fairly high profile and fairly well connected players, why havent they voiced their opinion on the terrible payout structures. Or have they been ignored?

The tournament was very playable and the clock excellent. The payout let the comp down and I will not return to play it again.

Phil

We have made representations, to no avail...although we have no formal players reps

 

It is a sad fact when you are dealing with a big chain such as this, that whilst individuals may agree with your views to get anything changed takes you through a sea of treacle and bureaucracy.

Luton's Friday nights now particularly suffer because of a £100 rebuy comp at the Sportsman Casino in London. I went last night to a comp there, 63 runners, and the payout structure was approximately 30%, 20% and so on. Much flatter.

Punters, where there is genuine competition, are voting with their feet.......good for them. In the Midlands it seems that the two major places, J10 and the Broadway, both have the same payout issues...now if one were to break ranks and go much flatter....well it would be game on

It would be a shame if you didn't come back. to Luton though..I still want that drink!

That is the bit I cannot understand Rich, the structure is bad, the players have told them it is bad, they have done nothing about it and now players are going elsewhere. How is that good business?

It is a pity because the cardroom and clock were great. So the Sportsman has used its head and given a prize structure that the players clearly think is better. Why cant the chains get it right for their benefit aswell as ours.

The drink is still deffo on me.....

[bobby1]

Luton.

At the Fessie before last (I missed the last one) , several of us went to Carmel & suggested that, in our opinion, the structure was top heavy.

She changed it IMMEDIATELy - there & then, & there were no complaints about the new, flatter, structure.

So it CAN be done, & it HAS been done, & lets applaud Carmel for her brave initiative.

There is no reason at all to be defeatist about this issue, if it needs changing we CAN help change it & the Casinos WILL listen if they are approached in the right manner. Sometimes, you know, it's not what you ask, it's how you ask it. A little good manners & diplomacy can go a very long way.

Walsall have agreed to change it for the next Fessie, I assume Luton will do the same - progress IS being made, & they ARE listening. But Supertankers do take a while to change diection.

Softly softly catchee monkee.....

Tony,

The cardrooms should know by now that the majority of players dislike their pay structures. The fact that you had to tell them again and that they went back to the old structure for the next comp shows how little they care about getting this right long term.

Either they think it is right, in which case they wouldnt have changed it, or they know it is wrong but refuse to alter it permenantly.

[tikay]

snoops,

Well we just have to KEEP asking - asking being the correct word - & I firmly believe they WILL respond.

They have agreed to change it, they have shown themselves receptive to suggestions, hey, come on, these things take time, lets not keep raking up history. A little backbone is needed here, overcoming adversity is FUN, and progress HAS been made.

I know sloppy fared badly in the Final at Luton, but what do you expect, Raising with 6-3 off?

As for Red's "good cop, bad cop", balance IS important, & I DO think Grosvenor are receptive to player suggestions, but it's not a one-night battle, it's an ongoing thing. I'm up for the long haul, & I hope you guys are. I have less interest though, in what they did wrong in the past (in our opinion) than in what they have assured me they will do different, & better (in our opinion) in future.

And another thing Red, my @rse is nicer than yours. Official. See you tomorrow in Vienna.

[matt674]

Softly softly catchee monkee.....

Wanna bet?

[RED-DOG]

And another thing Red, my @rse is nicer than yours. Official. See you tomorrow in Vienna.

Don't confuse quantity with quality

[tikay]

Luton.

At the Fessie before last (I missed the last one) , several of us went to Carmel & suggested that, in our opinion, the structure was top heavy.

She changed it IMMEDIATELy - there & then, & there were no complaints about the new, flatter, structure.

So it CAN be done, & it HAS been done, & lets applaud Carmel for her brave initiative.

There is no reason at all to be defeatist about this issue, if it needs changing we CAN help change it & the Casinos WILL listen if they are approached in the right manner. Sometimes, you know, it's not what you ask, it's how you ask it. A little good manners & diplomacy can go a very long way.

Walsall have agreed to change it for the next Fessie, I assume Luton will do the same - progress IS being made, & they ARE listening. But Supertankers do take a while to change diection.

Softly softly catchee monkee.....

Tony,

The cardrooms should know by now that the majority of players dislike their pay structures. The fact that you had to tell them again and that they went back to the old structure for the next comp shows how little they care about getting this right long term.

Either they think it is right, in which case they wouldnt have changed it, or they know it is wrong but refuse to alter it permenantly.

It's the Supertanker thing Bobby, these are large bureaucracy's where decisions are not delegated downstream easily or encouraged, & Staff need to be brave (as Carmel was) to change things. Everyone is talking about this in the negative, but we don't need to, these things ARE being changed, & pressure from the players IS responsible for that. We are still raking over History, yet they have agreed to change it at the next Walsall Fessie, & I guarantee that Carmel will be receptive again, as she was at the Fessie before last. What more do you want?

And before anyone suggests otherwise, I ain't got a flag to fly for Grosvenor particularly, but it's important to see this issue in perspective. They have agreed to change it, so why are we still banging on about what they did wrong in the past? And while I'm on my high-horse, personally, I don't think it's right to be too aggressive to Grosvenor. Imagine the UK Poker Circuit without them......WHAT Circuit! Someone in Rank or Grosvenor will wake up one morning & decide the (mostly unused) space devoted to Poker can be better utilised (in terms of financial return) by slots or gaming tables - then we WILL have summat to cry about.

[tikay]

And another thing Red, my @rse is nicer than yours. Official. See you tomorrow in Vienna.

Don't confuse quantity with quality

Damn you Red. It's always a mistake to take on Red in a battle of words. He can't play poker, but he can't' arf talk. AND you forgot to remind me about this afternoon's comp on Laddies. Frightened of the competition, were we? Roll on our apartment in Vienna, where we are gonna having a "nicest @rse" comp. Against Thewy, sloppy, b4Matt, you & Jen, I'm clear favourite, thoigh I'm bound to say, Thewy's is well tidy.

[RED-DOG]

I was going to remind you, but thought you might be busy

Laddies, in their infinite wisdom, have altered the scedule again and done away with the excellent 6pm comp

btw, BOBDABUTCHER is Bob the Butcher, he just gave me a kiss!

[bobby1]

Luton.

At the Fessie before last (I missed the last one) , several of us went to Carmel & suggested that, in our opinion, the structure was top heavy.

She changed it IMMEDIATELy - there & then, & there were no complaints about the new, flatter, structure.

So it CAN be done, & it HAS been done, & lets applaud Carmel for her brave initiative.

There is no reason at all to be defeatist about this issue, if it needs changing we CAN help change it & the Casinos WILL listen if they are approached in the right manner. Sometimes, you know, it's not what you ask, it's how you ask it. A little good manners & diplomacy can go a very long way.

Walsall have agreed to change it for the next Fessie, I assume Luton will do the same - progress IS being made, & they ARE listening. But Supertankers do take a while to change diection.

Softly softly catchee monkee.....

Tony,

The cardrooms should know by now that the majority of players dislike their pay structures. The fact that you had to tell them again and that they went back to the old structure for the next comp shows how little they care about getting this right long term.

Either they think it is right, in which case they wouldnt have changed it, or they know it is wrong but refuse to alter it permenantly.

It's the Supertanker thing Bobby, these are large bureaucracy's where decisions are not delegated downstream easily or encouraged, & Staff need to be brave (as Carmel was) to change things. Everyone is talking about this in the negative, but we don't need to, these things ARE being changed, & pressure from the players IS responsible for that. We are still raking over History, yet they have agreed to change it at the next Walsall Fessie, & I guarantee that Carmel will be receptive again, as she was at the Fessie before last. What more do you want?

And before anyone suggests otherwise, I ain't got a flag to fly for Grosvenor particularly, but it's important to see this issue in perspective. They have agreed to change it, so why are we still banging on about what they did wrong in the past? And while I'm on my high-horse, personally, I don't think it's right to be too aggressive to Grosvenor. Imagine the UK Poker Circuit without them......WHAT Circuit! Someone in Rank or Grosvenor will wake up one morning & decide the (mostly unused) space devoted to Poker can be better utilised (in terms of financial return) by slots or gaming tables - then we WILL have summat to cry about.

Tony, you are right. A couple of threads around at the moment have touched a nerve with me. The two things that get my goat the most are poor structures and collusion. In the past nothing has been done by cardrooms to combat either of these problems, lets hope they do start to combat these in the future.

[tikay]

They touch a nerve with me too bobby, be sure of that.

But progress IS being made on the Structures.

The collusion is more of a problem, it's tough to combat, & it does need the Cardroom Supervisors to be brave. We need to help them though, not pillory them.