Another AK hand..opinions appreciated

[suzanne]

Playing on UPL...which after a night well pssd up I managed to loose my.. not huge.. but nevertheless total bankroll.

For some reason its proving to be near impossible to deposit, hence the reason I could not play in the Blonde tourney.

Anyway...playing in a freeroll and was chipleader for most of the game, I decide to sit back and just make the final 9 so I can get some $$ when this happens.

Table Name Hand ID Game Stakes
MTT Table 2 8018469-84 Holdem No Limit 600/1,200
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : Hand Start.
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : Seat 1 : zimBRABIM has $10,130
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : Seat 2 : gaydrews has $18,125
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : Seat 3 : MissHoolie has $17,315
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : Seat 4 : davidrees has $18,075
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : Seat 5 : jonairey has $14,295
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : Seat 6 : Dobzy178 has $9,030
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : zimBRABIM is the dealer.
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : gaydrews posted small blind.
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : MissHoolie posted big blind.
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : Game [84] started with 6 players.
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Mar 22 23:11:37] : Seat 3 : MissHoolie has Ah
[Mar 22 23:11:39] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 6 min. Break in: 44 min. Players : 13
[Mar 22 23:11:40] : davidrees folded.
[Mar 22 23:11:40] : jonairey folded.
[Mar 22 23:11:43] : Dobzy178 folded.
[Mar 22 23:11:45] : zimBRABIM called 1,200 and raised 8,930 and is All-in
[Mar 22 23:11:49] : Dobzy178 : u guin manchester tourney MH
[Mar 22 23:11:49] : gaydrews called 9,530 and raised 7,995 and is All-in
[Mar 22 23:11:49] : Under-Raise rules are now in effect.
[Mar 22 23:11:58] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 6 min. Break in: 44 min. Players : 13
[Mar 22 23:11:59] : MissHoolie folded.
[Mar 22 23:11:59] : Showdown!
[Mar 22 23:12:01] : Seat 1 : zimBRABIM has
[Mar 22 23:12:01] : Seat 2 : gaydrews has As
[Mar 22 23:12:10] : Board cards [ ]
[Mar 22 23:12:10] : Seat 2 : gaydrews has As
[Mar 22 23:12:10] : gaydrews has Pair:
[Mar 22 23:12:10] : Seat 1 : zimBRABIM has
[Mar 22 23:12:10] : zimBRABIM has Two Pair: and
[Mar 22 23:12:10] : zimBRABIM wins 21,460 with Two Pair: and
[Mar 22 23:12:10] : MissHoolie : no Dobz
[Mar 22 23:12:16] : Dobzy178 : y
[Mar 22 23:12:18] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 5 min. Break in: 44 min. Players : 13
[Mar 22 23:12:19] : daffin1605 : oooaaarggghhhhh
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : Hand is over.
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : 
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 5 min. Break in: 44 min. Players : 13

I have 2 allin so I thought I did the right thing in folding even though I would have won the hand....so yes Im a bit peeved.

Next hand..

MTT Table 2 8018469-85 Holdem No Limit 600/1,200
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : Hand Start.
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : Seat 1 : zimBRABIM has $21,460
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : Seat 2 : gaydrews has $7,995
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : Seat 3 : MissHoolie has $16,115
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : Seat 4 : davidrees has $18,075
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : Seat 5 : jonairey has $14,295
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : Seat 6 : Dobzy178 has $9,030
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : gaydrews is the dealer.
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : MissHoolie posted small blind.
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : davidrees posted big blind.
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : Game [85] started with 6 players.
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Mar 22 23:12:20] : Seat 3 : MissHoolie has Ah
[Mar 22 23:12:21] : jonairey folded.
[Mar 22 23:12:22] : Dobzy178 : scared
[Mar 22 23:12:24] : Dobzy178 folded.
[Mar 22 23:12:24] : zimBRABIM folded.
[Mar 22 23:12:26] : MissHoolie : cant make it
[Mar 22 23:12:29] : gaydrews folded.
[Mar 22 23:12:34] : Dobzy178 : u cud still mite get 2nd
[Mar 22 23:12:36] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 5 min. Break in: 43 min. Players : 13
[Mar 22 23:12:40] : MissHoolie called 600 and raised 4,800
[Mar 22 23:12:47] : PokerFlushs : lil missy,still want to ask you that question when you get the chance
[Mar 22 23:12:49] : davidrees called 4,800 and raised 12,075 and is All-in
[Mar 22 23:12:55] : Dobzy178 : lol
[Mar 22 23:12:55] : MissHoolie called 10,115 and is All-in
[Mar 22 23:12:56] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 5 min. Break in: 43 min. Players : 13
[Mar 22 23:12:56] : Showdown!
[Mar 22 23:12:56] : Seat 3 : MissHoolie has Ah
[Mar 22 23:12:58] : Seat 3 : MissHoolie has Ah
[Mar 22 23:12:58] : Seat 4 : davidrees has
[Mar 22 23:12:58] : jonairey : can u speak english dobzy?
[Mar 22 23:13:06] : Just88 : haha
[Mar 22 23:13:07] : Board cards [ ]
[Mar 22 23:13:07] : Seat 4 : davidrees has
[Mar 22 23:13:07] : davidrees has 3 of a Kind:
[Mar 22 23:13:07] : Seat 3 : MissHoolie has Ah
[Mar 22 23:13:07] : MissHoolie has Pair: Kings
[Mar 22 23:13:07] : davidrees wins 32,230 with 3 of a Kind:
[Mar 22 23:13:14] : Just88 : more education needed
[Mar 22 23:13:16] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 4 min. Break in: 43 min. Players : 13
[Mar 22 23:13:16] : MissHoolie : nooooooooooooo
[Mar 22 23:13:17] : Hand is over.

I know I was unlucky that the first card out was an 8........but keeping my objective in mind .....I need $$ badly...should I have folded after the allin???

[byronkincaid]

you really really shouldn't be peeved when you make what is definitely the correct fold in the first hand. if you had folded 72 and the flop comes 772 would you be peeved about that? you played well, what cards come out is irrelevent. How many players were left? looks like 11 -13 Could you have scraped into the money by folding every hand? If so maybe you should fold AK pre flop. If not then again you played correctly imho. You need to think about how loose the game is are people busting out left right and center or is it real tight. You haven't got a massive stack was this all in guy reraising a lot or was this the first hand he'd played for an hour? I'm trying to think of this like top 9 win a WSOP seat or something. There are definitely times when you should only be playing AA (and even folding that sometimes) but I'm not sure that you're there yet.

[suzanne]

I felt I made the right call folding the first hand but I think seeing that it would have won effected my play.

There were only about 70 runners so although I dont look well stacked I was in the top 5.

davidrees I know is an aggressive player so that is probably why i took the chance but I had only just been moved to his table....we all play different on different nights (or is that a girl thing?)

So I have a reasonably good stack....and yes if you like think on it as a major game coz im desperate to make the money.

In a WSOP what woukld you have done???

[Bongo]

I don't know how you generally play (ie your table image etc) but i'd be having a very hard time passing AK in the SB to a reraise from an aggressive BB.

[I, Zimbra]

I was going to make a longer post, but everyone else has said what I wanted to say.

You made a good fold on the first hand... not just saying that because I happen to be zimBRABIM

Resist the temptation to use hindsight to say something like 'since the jack came out, I should have called.' More often than not, if you call in those situations, you lose. That's all you need to focus on.

With regard to the second hand, again - it's unlucky. But the machine gave both small and big blinds a genuine hand, the clash was inevitable. It could easily have gone your way; you would have been a sizeable chipleader going into the final table, which would have been more important than the pittance you would have made for limping into 9th or 8th place.

A-K is a hand that cannot be easily dominated. You raise to 6k... he moves all-in for your 16k stack. There's now 22k in the middle to be won, for a 10k call.

Even if he has pocket kings, the call is correct.

[suzanne]

Thanks for ur opinions guys....I still think i should have folded and hoped to limp into the money in the circumstances im in...but thx for making me feel better.

BTW .......had 40c left and just won a 10c 6 seater...up to 68c now........BRING IT ON

[clayftknight]

When you raise almost 1/3rd of your stack, you need to think about your move if you are reraised all in.
Proper Planning and Preperation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Having said that, all in with AKs is never a terrible thing whatever stage of the tourney, so from a hand point of view, all in is fine, fold is fine but decided that before you make that rather healthy raise.

The other factor, which should not be overlooked is that from a real person point of you, you really wanted to make the money, in certain events, be it the size of the payouts, or the way you have played or the good or bad run you have been on, or trying to outlast an enemy or make the final with a friend, whatever............you really wanted that final table so fold is probably better for you..........when you are in these crucial games and it doesn't go your way it can affect you.

[byronkincaid]

I didn't see that you were SB. I think you should go all in pre flop all things considered. You're getting maximum folding equity, you don't have any hard decisions on the flop if he calls and you miss and you only have 14 BBs which probably isn't enough to fold into the money.

[suzanne]

Proper Planning and Preperation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

I like that 

I didn't see that you were SB. I think you should go all in pre flop all things considered. You're getting maximum folding equity, you don't have any hard decisions on the flop if he calls and you miss and you only have 14 BBs which probably isn't enough to fold into the money.

I did wonder about that...I think I should have went allin preflop.

Ok, assuming I had. If you were in the other guys shoes would you have called with 88 ??

[SupaMonkey]

Actually in this situation i might have just called the 600. If he raised behind me then i would move in on him, for that i get max folding equity and i win a nice pot if he folds. If he flat calls after me we see a flop and i would let the hand go if i missed to conserve chips. If he moved in on me preflop i would have let the hand go because i would guess at a med pp and i wouldn't want a race at this stage of the tourney.

[byronkincaid]

I don't think I would, no

[lazaroonie]

I really dont like his all in reraise with a pair of 8's. He seems to be somewhat overvaluing the hand. The only other thing I dont really like is the raise to 8 X BB. It maybe that he saw this overbet as a bluff and a steal and decided to make a stand. I like 4 x BB raise here, and if he still comes over the top it makes it a bit easier to fold if thats what you want to do (not saying I would fold, but nice to have the option).

In the end if you call the all in, you must surely know that you will have to outdraw someone to get your chips back.

[Bongo]

What else is he going to do with the pocket ?

All pass round to the SB who raises. SB doesn't need to have a hand to raise so 88 would rate to be the best hand.

I wouldn't really like to call as it can give a lesser hand a chance to draw out on you for free and can give you tough decisions on the flop - the SB acts first and can give you a tough decision by moving in, i'd rather give them the decision now.

[clayftknight]

I also like all in first with the AK, not the time to be making tricky flop decisions, and in answer to your question, if you did that, 88 is folding....probably lol

[I, Zimbra]

I really dont like his all in reraise with a pair of 8's. He seems to be somewhat overvaluing the hand. The only other thing I dont really like is the raise to 8 X BB. It maybe that he saw this overbet as a bluff and a steal and decided to make a stand. I like 4 x BB raise here, and if he still comes over the top it makes it a bit easier to fold if thats what you want to do (not saying I would fold, but nice to have the option).

In the end if you call the all in, you must surely know that you will have to outdraw someone to get your chips back.

It was a raise to 5x the BB, if that matters, but probably not.

With 13x the BB, I also would have been more likely to just stuff the lot in. 11-15x the BB is a difficult situation to play; it looks like you can raise and then fold to a reraise or a bad flop, but in reality, if you make a 3x BB raise, and get called, there will be a very large pot to play for with respect to the size of your chips; out of position, as well.

If you check, and he bets another 3x BB, what do you do?
Or - if you miss the flop, bet 3x the BB anyway and get called/raised, what do you do?

Hence, even though you're not a shortstack, an all-in move pre-flop here is perfectly viable. Put him to the test, see how much he really wants to get involved with a pair of eights.

As it is, he got his stack in first, and put you to a decision you obviously didn't relish making.

Having said that, in a tournament like this one (crapshoot freeroll), even if you stick all 16k in, I still think he's calling with the eights.