Structures at the Vic

[Irishdenis]

Hi guys,  I will be playing today as I got my seat last week. I totally agree with you about the structure. However please understand that it is not the dealers or lower management that make these decisions. I have heard a few comments were made to dealers last night. They are not responsible for the bad beats or the structure. They are all interested in poker and if they could voice an opinion they would all agree.

The Vic knew how many players they would get. They had put on an extra day. The decision is made by the management of the club. Luton is part of Grosvenor but set their own structures. Their xmas event ended up with blinds of 2000 / 4000 when the average was 100,000. A proper final structure. The other thing is the restaurant. Why pay for the buffet. They know how annoying this is. Good practice would be to have given it for free or added £10 to the juice to make you feel like you were being looked after. Perhaps the start of a players union would help.

[Nem]

Perhaps the start of a players union would help.

Well needed.

[TightEnd]

It's clearly not the fault of the dealers....who at the Vic are excellent. Even though Niall is a Luton fan.

The situation is that each Grosvenor within the Grosvenor group set's its own festival structure...and in terms of management each set of inspectors at each club runs its own business and takes a £ share at the end of each accounting period

Its down to Jeff and Caroline at the Vic in this case....whereas IMHO Carmel at Luton and Yogi at Blackpool and Dani at Walsall get it consistently right

Players Union....yeah great...(we've had that discussion 36 times before!) but it needs a) someone to step forward and b) the poker players to be prepared to be represented by one voice when there are often a lot of vested interests to deal with.

[jacshal]

I had a few friends playing there last night.One text me at 11pm saying this is a crapshoot "what is the point" i replyed saying you knew that reply
"bloody hell not this bad after 3 hours unless you want to grind your racing with any half decent hand" With poker as i see it the new football i.e.
more and more people playing and watching the game surely its about time the *stars* players werent taken for mugs.I doudt there are many left after last night who at one stage didnt put all their chips in the middle...............is that NLHE POKER or a crapshoot.
Poker in america is huge ,players are treated like sports celebes this countrys attitude as per normal seems to be see how much we can make out of this fad.When all the decent british players are playing over there for a living and they struggle to get "names" for their crapshoots over here they "the tournament organisers" will use that old phrase "we knew it would not last" complete tripe .Poker is here to run in my opinion for the next 5years minimum at its currently increasing volume and until such time as cardrooms cater for the card player rather than themselves the live game will only go backwards.........T.V. coverage can only use live games ...........one goes backward where does the other one go.



I agree with TK there needs to be some body of some sorts.They could have turned around to the vic and said "clock and blinds not acceptable what can you do" no doubt f all but at least it would be a start.


Rant over sorry if you dont agree but the game as a whole in this country has to progress and move on up and the debacle {one of the bigger payouts in english poker) of this tournament should be learnt from.



everyone be lucky

tony

[Irishdenis]

Ok then. I will ask one of my programmers to put up a home page for people to register their interest. If we get the interest then we will do it. What is important is to have a mission statement. What are we trying to avhieve and so on. If anyone wnats to be involved then send me an email.  My address is deniso@kewcomputers.com   Please mark it players union as I get a lot of mail and would not like to miss your mail.

[thediceman]

Fair play to Irishdennis in stepping upto the plate. 

[turny]

trouble is poker tournaments need to be run by people with the love of the game not employed by some money making organisation and drawing their monthly salary regardless of success.

roll on dusk til dawn opening and a real poker lover like rob yong can show them how its done

[The Camel]

Ok. I've got to defend the Vic.

First: Most people are complaining there was no 75-150 and 150-300 levels. Well, no there wasn't but there was a 500-1000 which i've never seen in a major Grosvenor festival. Many people moan about the tv tournaments which degenerate into crapshoots when the money is about to won. I for one, would rather have a 500-1000 level (they normally go from 400-800 to 600-1200) than a 75-150 level which serves no purpose. I do agree there was roon for 150-300 level...

Second: Red asks why running antes were introduced so quickly. Well, I think they came in too late! At the WSOP they have running antes of 25 at the 100-200 level! At the Vic they came in at 400-800!

I have played all over the world and in my opinion the Vic staff are the best anywhere. The dealers are just superb.

I just do not understand players who clamour for a funerial structure. This just means when we reach the money spots the play becomes a crapshoot. I would rather have alot of play at the final table than when there are 300 players left...

[tikay]

I was approached by two of the Senior Cardroom Managers last night, "we've been getting some stick I gather" they said.

"Yup, a bit" I replied, & went on to explain the gist of the issue.

We agreed to have a chat about it on Sunday, & I genuinely believe they are, & will be, receptive to sensible discussion.

To see so many peeps giving The Vic unadultered criticism, withoit any balance, serves no real purpose in my opinion.

If there is a problem, chat with the Management. They WILL listen.

IS there a problem?

My own view had been "yes, where are the 75-150 & 150-300 levels?", but let's be fair here, The Camel, & only The Camel, have reminded us that the 500-1,000 level exists, a level I can rarely recall seeing anywhere else. And The Camel does know a thing or two about Poker.....

So it's not that cut & dried that they messed up, not at all.

It's a subjective thing, & if anyone is unhappy, I urge them to approach The Vic Management & air their views in a polite & constructive manner.

Am I taking The Vic's side here? Not at all. But I DO believe that "balance" is needed in the debate. And I DO believe that discussing any gripes with The Vic in a sensible, civil, well-mannered way will result in them changing things - if indeed they need changing.

[TightEnd]

the presence of a 500-1000 level is a decent counter-argument and is a genuine difference its true

I suppose if you are "rockish" you like all the time in the world to wait for your premium stuff...if you are more active then a faster clock is of less importance and the more play provided by this extra level later on is of more value to you

I think my point would be that by the time the tournament gets to 500-1000 the poker is push and fold and raise/re-raise all in so the amount of play is already at a lower level due to the speed of the tournament earlier on.

[tikay]

the presence of a 500-1000 level is a decent counter-argument and is a genuine difference its true

I suppose if you are "rockish" you like all the time in the world to wait for your premium stuff...if you are more active then a faster clock is of less importance and the more play provided by this extra level later on is of more value to you

I think my point would be that by the time the tournament gets to 500-1000 the poker is push and fold and raise/re-raise all in so the amount of play is already at a lower level due to the speed of the tournament earlier on.

Thanks Tighty.

Now we can start to see some balance in the debate at last.....

Keep it coming!

[M3boy]

Right, this is not directed at anyone in particular, but I feel players are cheated when they are not told the structure/blind levels.

At the Vic - why play the first 2 levels as 45 minutes?

Now the clock has been extended to 90 minute clock on official day 2 - had players been told this in day 1 I am confident that some would of played different.

I just think it is unfair on players.

Now that they have increased the clock to 90 minute levels with 60 odd players left - does this indeed not show that the structure was way out for a 3 day comp?!?!?

(My last post on the subject)

[RED-DOG]

I was approached by two of the Senior Cardroom Managers last night, "we've been getting some stick I gather" they said.

"Yup, a bit" I replied, & went on to explain the gist of the issue.

We agreed to have a chat about it on Sunday, & I genuinely believe they are, & will be, receptive to sensible discussion.

To see so many peeps giving The Vic unadultered criticism, withoit any balance, serves no real purpose in my opinion.

If there is a problem, chat with the Management. They WILL listen.

IS there a problem?

My own view had been "yes, where are the 75-150 & 150-300 levels?", but let's be fair here, The Camel, & only The Camel, have reminded us that the 500-1,000 level exists, a level I can rarely recall seeing anywhere else. And The Camel does know a thing or two about Poker.....

So it's not that cut & dried that they messed up, not at all.

It's a subjective thing, & if anyone is unhappy, I urge them to approach The Vic Management & air their views in a polite & constructive manner.

Am I taking The Vic's side here? Not at all. But I DO believe that "balance" is needed in the debate. And I DO believe that discussing any gripes with The Vic in a sensible, civil, well-mannered way will result in them changing things - if indeed they need changing.

I don't quite understand your point Tony, What do you mean by balance?

I thought the structure was bad and I said so, what's wrong with that?

I could say that the toasted tuna sandwiches were good if that helps

 

[TightEnd]

Do we not think that the decision to lengthen blind levels to 90 mins at the start of today is a tacit admission of a prior mistake and they realise that they need to do this to ensure enough players come back for tomorrow?

Not sure I would have been greatly impressed at having to play quite quickly day 1, geting knocked out, and then seeing day 2 revert to a crawlathon!

[RED-DOG]

Do we not think that the decision to lengthen blind levels to 90 mins at the start of today is a tacit admission of a prior mistake and they realise that they need to do this to ensure enough players come back for tomorrow?

Not sure I would have been greatly impressed at having to play quite quickly day 1, geting knocked out, and then seeing day 2 revert to a crawlathon!

I for one would have played the last level on Thursday completely differently had I known I was coming back to a 90 min clock and blinds of 500/1000