Tank-Style Pyramid Scheme / Choosing the right level / Negative runs

[moritzey]

Hey. I've been playing a bit of a tank-style STT system recently, and am trying to figure out a few things:

Looking at my results up to now, I make it to the money in about 80% of my level 1 games, and about 40% in
level 2, level 3 and level 4. Level 2 has three times the buy-in of level 1, so my profit there would be similar, however
I make more 1sts in level 1 at this point. Should I just stick to the tank-style system, i.e. move up and down levels
after each game depending on the result, or just stick to level 1 for the time being?

On a different note, looking at my results, I got that thing, that whenever I lost a game in one of the higher levels, I would keep on loosing the next few matches, until I was down to level 1 again - any suggestions what to do about that? It doesn't really hit me emotionally or anything if I loose a single game, so I thought I just had a bad run, but this happened repeatedly, which is a little worrying .. just go straight back to level 1 after loosing a single match?

Anyway, overall it seems to work, making a steady profit, so not complaining really

[thetank]

Here's a suggestion, say you're on level 3 and lose, putting you back to level 2.

Instead of playing that level 2 "save your game" and start again at level 1 till you get a win.

You've now got 2 shots at level 2 (the one you just got from winning level one and your "saved game") Also, you'll be more in a winning frame of mind when taking these shots.
You'll be back up to level 3 in no time 


Does that make sense? I'm very tired.

[moritzey]

hmm, I like that "save game" idea. Will give it a go and report back in a week or two with results/effect. Cheers.

[matt674]

I would hazard a guess and say that the only reason you get to play games at the higher levels is if you win on the lower ones - thats how the system works.

Therefore you play the lower games on a regular basis, you are used to them and you know what style of play is best required to win at them. But as you have to win on two levels before you can even attempt to go for the third level you dont get chance to play at this level very often and work out the best way to beat the players here.

However one loss at the level 3 probably costs you the profit you've made winning three or four level 1 tournaments and therefore you are constantly ending up close to being back where you started.

Tank is the STT expert, monkey here only plays MTT's but i'd say that surely it would be better to continuously play and win at the first level until you have built up enough of a bankroll to play regularly on level 2. Then by playing this level on a regular basis you will soon learn what is required to win at this level enabling you to slowly build up enough of a bankroll to be able to move up to playing level 3 on a regular basis.

If you fall back to your starting bankroll playing level 2 then move back down to level 1 and start again.

[Graham C]

the stuff Matt said

I agree.  I thought the ladder system was for a one off challenge type thing.  For a regular game I'd say you need to get consistant on a level before moving up, you don't necessarily have to win -  a regular +ROI and finishing in the money is ideal.

[thetank]

What you said is true Matt.

I believe the system is good for the recreational player though. It adds a level of excitement that grinding away at level one does not offer. The possibility that you could be up serious money that very evening, while at the same time not risking everything you have in your account.

The same sort of possibility you might get from a MTT

[matt674]

so its not really something you'd recommend to someone who was seriously trying to build a bankroll - more of something to attempt once in a while as a challenge?

Of course the upshot is that every once in a while you manage to make it to level 4 and pull of a win or two to increase your bankroll dramatically.

Like you say, similar to how i play the MTT's - keep getting the place money and small wins here and there to keep the bankroll ticking over until the next big top 3 finish comes along

[GlasgowBandit]

I was giving this a go but what I tended to find was that I was struggling on the lower levels and not being able to move up but when I got to the higher levels my game seemd better suited to playing that sort of level.

I have planned that from next month I am going to make a deposit of £500 in one account and close all other online accounts or at elast delete them from the computer and also close all my other bettinga ccounts and concentrate soley on poker for a month playing $20/$30 STT's.

I will also hope to play at least one $50 Freezeout MTT a week.  My plan is to at least double my investmnet for month one.

Then I will re-evaluate the following month.  Presently I don''t keep a detailed log of my profits and losses or my ROI.  But from next month I will be taking the book keeping much more seriously.

My start date for this mission will be 1st of May. 

[I, Zimbra]

I can see this method being very frustrating (to me) if I were to employ it rigidly; i.e. you get from $10 to $20 to $30, get a few bad results on the bounce and then get stuck back down at $10 for several sessions.

The sentiment behind it is a fine one though; I 'level up' when my confidence is high, and then 'level down' again after a few bad results, to get my confidence back.

I've not been getting the breaks this month - then the inevitable bad play crept in (as it tends to do when I'm frustrated about not winning), so stopped playing MTTs, and I levelled down to $10 STTs - won two of them yesterday and feel much happier about my play. Even a horrible 2-outer beat inflicted on me in a MTT yesterday hasn't sent me down the corridor in tears, so I feel good about levelling back up to $20 in the near future... and shall hopefully move on from there.

I can see how some people might like the pyramid for a recreational challenge though.

"I have adopted this and made it my own
Cut back the weakness, reinforce what is strong"

 

[thetank]

so its not really something you'd recommend to someone who was seriously trying to build a bankroll

That would depend upon if they were finding it difficult jumping between the levels or not. I'd still recommend it to serious bankroll builders.

Everyone is different, I just put it forward as an idea and something that worked well for me in the past.

[moritzey]

hmm, serious bankroll building. sounds like a big word for my small plans, but I think it's pretty close to what I'm trying to do.

About the levels I'm playing: I feel that at level 1 play is very fishy, people calling with half their stack for a gutshot draw / 2 outer .., at the other levels 2,3 and possibly even 4 play is a lot tighter, more sensible poker and I can actually pull moves I wouldn't dream about doing in level 1.
Do you think it would be sensible to just get rid of level 1 and take level 2 as my starting level for learning/training purposes. I'm not sure if playing level 1 poker helps my higher level poker a lot, as it's mostly playing ultra-tight for 10 minutes until the lunatics are gone and then semi-tight to the money and by then it's a bit of a crapshoot..
In the account I'm building I have about 30 buy-ins for level 2 - that should be enough to get me going, no?

[thetank]

Yes, ditch level 1.