"Honesty doesn't pay in poker"

[TightEnd]

Picture the scene.

I'm playing a self deal satellite to Luton's triple bill and its a pleasant if tough table

At one point a very nice guy gets up while in the process of mucking his hand to go and have a smoke and in his haste to do so slightly lifts one card

I am still to act and I see it, and I am the only one who sees the card.

Immediately I declare what the card is and I ask for it to be exposed.

No one says a word, its all fine

Two hands later I see at the end of the deal the burn card. Again I ask for it to be exposed.

There follows a big discussion between experienced and honest players at the table as to whether people routinely declare when they are the only one to see a card.

The majority opinion was that many players do nothing and one person stated

"Honesty does not pay in poker"

What do we all think about this? Is this an old school view? Is it true? I know its a sad view to have

I am interested because playing as much live poker as I do I see a huge dichotomy betwen "old" and "new" school and those who shoot angles and those that wouldn't


Which gets to my supplementary question:

Is poker at a crossroads, where the nippers/angle shooters can be safely said to be outnumbered by those who are honest as the day is long?

[RED-DOG]

Whether it pays or not isn't the point, either your honest or your a cheat

[londonpokergirl]

I'm always of the opinion that I would want everybody else to expose the card if they saw it, just like if I saw a card then I would say it needs to be exposed and for the whole table to see it. 

Cheats are cheats in my book

[mex]

I'm with Red, its down to you and how YOU feel about cheating.

[TightEnd]

I agree with you all

What I think my opponent was trying to say was that there are many people who wouldn't declare and take any angle they can shoot to gain an advantage

Not sure if this is true but I suspect, human nature being what is, that it is

I do not personally care if others do this because I am happy to attempt to win withough gaining an unfair edge and can feel comfortable with my morals if I succeed

Finally what I suppose the big picture is, is that poker players represent every strata of society...from the wealthy to the skint, the honest to the dishonest, the old, the young, the male and the female.

I think being honest pays in more than the financial sense.
 

[Tonji]

I agree with you all

What I think my opponent was trying to say was that there are many people who wouldn't declare and take any angle they can shoot to gain an advantage

Not sure if this is true but I suspect, human nature being what is, that it is

I do not personally care if others do this because I am happy to attempt to win withough gaining an unfair edge and can feel comfortable with my morals if I succeed

Finally what I suppose the big picture is, is that poker players represent every strata of society...from the wealthy to the skint, the honest to the dishonest, the old, the young, the male and the female.

I think being honest pays in more than the financial sense.
 

Totally agree tighty, Honesty & Integrity count an awful lot, much more than ability, skill or whatever. Maybe its old fashioned, but to me thats more important than winning.

[lazaroonie]

I agree with what everyone says so far, but the question for me is how far to take it ?

Example would be a sloppy dealer (probably self deal) who slightly exposes cards as he tries to shuffle the cards - we have all seen how hamfisted some people can be - bottom line is you know (for example) there is an ace and a king near the bottom of the deck.

should I tell everyone this ?
ask for a misdeal ?
Say I get dealt AK, should this affect my betting ? would this be considered cheating ?

[TightEnd]

If you see the A and the K, either cos he's hamfisted or not using a postillion, you have to declare it and ask for a re-deal.

Please. xxx

[Sheriff Fatman]

I'm like you Tighty, I'd speak up.  I know that many wouldn't but its all to do with personal pride.  If I can't win fair, I'd rather not win.

You just have to put faith in 'what goes around comes around' when thinking about those that woudn't speak up.

Sheriff

[lazaroonie]

the problem with that is, in a lot of poorly self dealt games you will be mucking every second deal....

[Dingdell]

I agree that honesty is the best policy. I was accused of seeing another players cards - I wasn't in the hand and neither was the accuser - and I hadn't seen the cards - I would have had to be a contortionist to achieve that and I would have told the player that i could see his cards and that he should be more careful.  But at least the accuser was promoting honest play.

Red is the most honest player I know - who else on an on line tourney - when the other player disconnects will sit out and wait for them to come back into the game?  I know I have raised every blind when that happens.

Is there a difference between on line and live play honesty? Do people have different levels of honesty depending on whether they are on line or playing live?

[TightEnd]

I always wait if there is a disconnection online. Doesn't everyone, seriously?

[bolt pp]

Jonny Vegas:" theres no room for a man with morals in poker"

here here

[TightEnd]

I'll get me coat then.

 

[bolt pp]

I always wait if there is a disconnection online. Doesn't everyone, seriously?

Nope, unless i knew the guy.