Vegas - Tax

[EagleBeagle]

The following is my understanding following a trip over Easter, playing in various rooms and talking to other players

Only properties owned by Harrahs deduct tax on poker winnings.  The deduction is 30% of the whole prize money if the prize money exceeds $600.  Harrahs properties include Harrahs, Rio, Imperail Palace, Paris, Bally's, Caesars Palace.

All other properties pay winnings in chips which seems to avoid the tax issue.

To avoid the tax deduction, you need to supply a ITIN number (which is the US tax ID number).

To get an ITIN number, easiest way is to complete forms w-7 and w-8 (google for them) and get a "relevant gaming agent" to fax them to the IRS.  The relevant article of the double tax treaty is Article 22.  The IRS fax back your ITN number within a couple of days (sometimes same day).  These forms can only be submitted by the casino. 

Harrah's properties will not assist you in getting an ITN number/submitting forms on your behalf.  Caesars Palace will allow your winnings to be held at the cage whilst you apply for your ITIN number elsewhere.

MGM-Mirage properties will (to my knowledge MGM, Mirage, Bellagio will assist - not sure of the rest).  You need to speak to the cage manager (cage = main cashier); cage managers usually work the 5pm to 1am shift.  Obviously, it helps if you apply at the property you are staying at - and give them a decent tip!!!  MGM cage manager was extremely helpful with me.

If you do get tax deducted, I have no idea how to go about claiming it back but it seems to be a load of hassle (US tax returns, copies of passport certified by US approved notary etc).

As others have said, Caesars Palace has the best tournament structure for the money.  Wynn is an excellent touranment if you want to spend $330 - it has less starting chips but a slower increase in the blinds.  Caesars has big jumps in blinds at levels 3 and above (level 2 = 100/200, level 3 = 200/400 with 25 ante, level 4 = 400/800, 50 ante).

Hope someone finds this useful.

Apologies for any errors.

Thanks to previous posters who have given me advise on this in the past (Ariston springs to mind)

EB

[redsimon]

UK residents can apply for an ITIN from

IRS
American Embassy
24 Grosvenor Square
London
W1A 1AE

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/irs/index.htm

From personal experience don't bother telephoning.

[MPOWER]

Simon
 have you got an ITIN  number and how long does it take if you apply online


Regards

M

[tikay]

The following is my understanding following a trip over Easter, playing in various rooms and talking to other players

Only properties owned by Harrahs deduct tax on poker winnings.  The deduction is 30% of the whole prize money if the prize money exceeds $600.  Harrahs properties include Harrahs, Rio, Imperail Palace, Paris, Bally's, Caesars Palace.

All other properties pay winnings in chips which seems to avoid the tax issue.

To avoid the tax deduction, you need to supply a ITIN number (which is the US tax ID number).

To get an ITIN number, easiest way is to complete forms w-7 and w-8 (google for them) and get a "relevant gaming agent" to fax them to the IRS.  The relevant article of the double tax treaty is Article 22.  The IRS fax back your ITN number within a couple of days (sometimes same day).  These forms can only be submitted by the casino. 

Harrah's properties will not assist you in getting an ITN number/submitting forms on your behalf.  Caesars Palace will allow your winnings to be held at the cage whilst you apply for your ITIN number elsewhere.

MGM-Mirage properties will (to my knowledge MGM, Mirage, Bellagio will assist - not sure of the rest).  You need to speak to the cage manager (cage = main cashier); cage managers usually work the 5pm to 1am shift.  Obviously, it helps if you apply at the property you are staying at - and give them a decent tip!!!  MGM cage manager was extremely helpful with me.

If you do get tax deducted, I have no idea how to go about claiming it back but it seems to be a load of hassle (US tax returns, copies of passport certified by US approved notary etc).

As others have said, Caesars Palace has the best tournament structure for the money.  Wynn is an excellent touranment if you want to spend $330 - it has less starting chips but a slower increase in the blinds.  Caesars has big jumps in blinds at levels 3 and above (level 2 = 100/200, level 3 = 200/400 with 25 ante, level 4 = 400/800, 50 ante).

Hope someone finds this useful.

Apologies for any errors.

Thanks to previous posters who have given me advise on this in the past (Ariston springs to mind)

EB

Yes, Harrahs will deduct 30%.  But if you ask them nicely, they will direct you to a nice Lady who will sort it all out for you. They have even given her a little office & desk at The Rio. And she charges you 10% of your winnings!

AVOID!

[redsimon]

Simon
 have you got an ITIN  number and how long does it take if you apply online


Regards

M

Like a muppet I forgot to do it  before I went. Applied offline last week as I'm going again in September (Unless i do all my dough online!) along with a tax return to get my tax from Caesars Palace back. Getting one (ITIN) in advance is definitely less trouble. Not tried online though.

[I, Zimbra]

OK - here's an odd one - what do I do if I'm a US citizen (I hold a US passport), but I was born in the UK, live in the UK, and don't have a Social Security number?

[Vodkaian]

On getting an ITIN number, I was in Vegas in March and placed second in the daily $540 Bellagio comp.
At the final table the tourny director came around asking for ID's from everyone to speed up the paper work.  Being the only Brit on the table the TD explained about the ITIN number, took my passport and spent the next 30 mins filling out the paperwork for me while I played.

After the comp she said the casino would send off for the ITIN number for me and I could come back the next day and get the number for future use.  Thats nice service!!

[The Rivercard]

On getting an ITIN number, I was in Vegas in March and placed second in the daily $540 Bellagio comp.
At the final table the tourny director came around asking for ID's from everyone to speed up the paper work.  Being the only Brit on the table the TD explained about the ITIN number, took my passport and spent the next 30 mins filling out the paperwork for me while I played.

After the comp she said the casino would send off for the ITIN number for me and I could come back the next day and get the number for future use.  Thats nice service!!

The same happened to me at the wpt in April I cashed and they did all the paperwork. I had a lot more problems with Harrahs last year though I eventually got paid in full. I now have the paperwork sorted but I advise anyone going to be prepared.

[doubleup]

OK - here's an odd one - what do I do if I'm a US citizen (I hold a US passport), but I was born in the UK, live in the UK, and don't have a Social Security number?

As I understand it US citizens have to pay tax on all earnings worldwide including gambling winnings, so if you are a US citizen you probably owe them a fortune already..........

[I, Zimbra]

I have dual citizenship, but no Social Security Number. I was born in the UK and have always lived here - I have a US passport because my parents are American.

I have never paid tax in the US, because I don't live there.

Seems simple enough to me

[EagleBeagle]

OK - here's an odd one - what do I do if I'm a US citizen (I hold a US passport), but I was born in the UK, live in the UK, and don't have a Social Security number?

The answer should be somewhere in here, bit not too sure where.  Think gambling income is covered by Article 22 but wouldn't bet on it!!

http://www.treasury.gov/offices/tax-policy/library/uktreaty.pdf

[I, Zimbra]

Thanks, Eagle... very kind of you to search that out for me.

[matt674]

UK residents can apply for an ITIN from

IRS
American Embassy
24 Grosvenor Square
London
W1A 1AE

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/irs/index.htm

From personal experience don't bother telephoning.

I visited their site and printed a W-7 form and promptly filled it in, i then rang the office and asked what the proceedure was as it involves sending your passport as identification. I didnt want to send it off if the process would take more than 8 weeks as that is when we fly to Vegas for the WSOP.

The lady on the phone told me that you cannot apply for an ITIN number before you have had money withheld from you for tax purposes therefore you can only apply for a number once you have won. She said the money (30%) is withheld but that it would definately be returned in a couple of months after they have received and processed the application.

Of course if there are cardroom managers willing to operate a service that will get you the number within 48 hours - for a price, then most people will choose the 48 hours rather than months.

Sounds like a bit of a scam to me - but then i suppose its better than prison food in Russia............

[The Rivercard]

If you have any doubts regarding The tax position of the WSOP I would contact there head office in Vegas. Harrahs marketing dept for the WSOP is now based at Ceasers palace. I am sure they will be able to tell you what there policy will be for this year. I know they had a lot of issues last year so hopefully they have now sorted this out.

One of the key people heading up the event is Jeffrey Polock who will have no clue about what to do but I am sure his PA will  .

Harrah´s Corporate Office
One Harrah´s Court
Las Vegas, NV 89119
001(702) 407-6000



Rio All-Suite Casino Hotel
3700 W. Flamingo Road
Las Vegas, NV 89103
001(702) 777-7777


I hope this helps as we all want to be bringing lots of dosh back from the "good old US of A"   

[ariston]

Bellagio are without doubt the best at sorting out your ITIN. If you have a big "win" in a cash game (over 5k) they also require an ITIN. Easiest way to get one sorted is to sit down in one of the bigger NL games and pull up say 10k. Sit out/fold a few rounds (do not lose the 10k) and when you go to cash in at the cage they will give you the forms or for a reasonable tip fill them out for you. This means you have your ITIN in case you cash in the WSOP. Loads of prople used this method last year and I am sure loads will this year.