Ruling regarding out of turn bet

[Graham C]

What happens if you're in seat 1 and it's seat 10 that pushes over the line sneekly?  Chances are the dealer is blocking your view on what's happening.

[gatso]

What happens if you're in seat 1 and it's seat 10 that pushes over the line sneekly?  Chances are the dealer is blocking your view on what's happening.

I assume you mean what if you're in seat 10 and seat 1 does it

then so what? you wanted to raise, you raised, seat 1 now has all options available same as if he hadn't done it. we can't now go back and change our decision because we've got new info we didn't have before

[Graham C]

Yes

And fair enough.  Good to know these things.

[ScottMGee]

Yes it is.

If we haven't been made aware of an out of turn bet by someone to our left so we make a raise surely we are allowed our chips back.

It can't be our responsibility to watch action to our left. If you know that someone's all in out of turn it drastically changes your raising range obviously so it's only fair that you're allowed to re-evaluate.

What I'm saying is can you re-evaluate your raise to a call thus forcing him to make his raise. If your raise stands then he gets to re-evaluate his shove so maybe it should work both ways?

The player who has acted out of turn is doing so without complete information, i.e. he doesn't know whether you are calling, folding or raising.

He is now disadvantaged as the player who had not acted can now
- call to force the out of turn player to go all,
- fold knowing the out of turn player is going all in,
- or raise.

The player who acted in turn has not been disadvantaged at all as he would not have known the out of turn players action anyway.

[EvilPie]

What happens if you're in seat 1 and it's seat 10 that pushes over the line sneekly?  Chances are the dealer is blocking your view on what's happening.

I was thinking that but some smart arse will probably say that can't happen unless he shoves his BB out of turn.

(For smart arse think Gatso btw)  

  I was typing this when the phone rang so got delayed posting. I promise I have not altered the above at all but had to post it just so you could see. Uncanny.

[gatso]

What happens if you're in seat 1 and it's seat 10 that pushes over the line sneekly?  Chances are the dealer is blocking your view on what's happening.

I was thinking that but some smart arse will probably say that can't happen unless he shoves his BB out of turn.

(For smart arse think Gatso btw)  

  I was typing this when the phone rang so got delayed posting. I promise I have not altered the above at all but had to post it just so you could see. Uncanny.

oi you cheeky git. I actually refrained from making a smart arse comment to silo's post and gave a sensible answer

[StuartHopkin]

What happens if you're in seat 1 and it's seat 10 that pushes over the line sneekly?  Chances are the dealer is blocking your view on what's happening.

Right then!

Lets make this more interesting.

I was sat in seat 9, and the guy who pushed was in seat 1. I sit with my cards in my left hand and my chips just to the right of them. He couldnt see me let alone my cards and this wasnt the first time the guy in seat 1 had thought i had passed.

Imo this isnt my problem. Its his responsibilty to ensure ive acted.

So I raise, and the dealer says action stands. Im thinking wtf? Seat 1 then pushes his chips in. I realise that he obviously verbally declared 'all in'. He then says are you sure? Oh it doesnt matter, im all in anyway. Then the SB goes into the tank and starts muttering about racing. Mark the floor manager has been watching, and already looked at me to acknowledge the confuseaments.

Rightly or wrongly im now thinkin this is a bad situation for me. Its a sattelite, were 7 places of the seats. Im going to have to call if the SB shoves and I dont like this spot at all anymore.

So I decide to confuse things a bit more and ask the dealer, why he just said action stands. He explains that seat 1 had said all in before i acted. I said thats wrong and Mark then told the dealer he was wrong and that the button could take his chips back.

The button decides to take his chips back and the SB and BB fold.

[EvilPie]

What happens if you're in seat 1 and it's seat 10 that pushes over the line sneekly?  Chances are the dealer is blocking your view on what's happening.

I assume you mean what if you're in seat 10 and seat 1 does it

then so what? you wanted to raise, you raised, seat 1 now has all options available same as if he hadn't done it. we can't now go back and change our decision because we've got new info we didn't have before

But you may have raised an unopened pot with the intention of stealing. If seat 1 has pushed out of turn you aren't going to want to have to call his out of turn shove with 56s for example which is a genuine raising hand but definitely not a hand for calling an all in.

If however you have raised with AA not knowing about the out of turn shove he then gets the opportunity to take his chips back even though you obviously want him all in.

It just seems unfair that he would get the opportunity to re-evaluate if the person who acted in turn wouldn't.

[EvilPie]

What happens if you're in seat 1 and it's seat 10 that pushes over the line sneekly?  Chances are the dealer is blocking your view on what's happening.

I was thinking that but some smart arse will probably say that can't happen unless he shoves his BB out of turn.

(For smart arse think Gatso btw)  

  I was typing this when the phone rang so got delayed posting. I promise I have not altered the above at all but had to post it just so you could see. Uncanny.

oi you cheeky git. I actually refrained from making a smart arse comment to silo's post and gave a sensible answer

That doesn't alter the fact that you were thinking of a smart arse answer 

[gatso]

What happens if you're in seat 1 and it's seat 10 that pushes over the line sneekly?  Chances are the dealer is blocking your view on what's happening.

I was thinking that but some smart arse will probably say that can't happen unless he shoves his BB out of turn.

(For smart arse think Gatso btw)  

  I was typing this when the phone rang so got delayed posting. I promise I have not altered the above at all but had to post it just so you could see. Uncanny.

oi you cheeky git. I actually refrained from making a smart arse comment to silo's post and gave a sensible answer

That doesn't alter the fact that you were thinking of a smart arse answer 

it's a fair cop guv

[gatso]

What happens if you're in seat 1 and it's seat 10 that pushes over the line sneekly?  Chances are the dealer is blocking your view on what's happening.

Right then!

Lets make this more interesting.

I was sat in seat 9, and the guy who pushed was in seat 1. I sit with my cards in my left hand and my chips just to the right of them. He couldnt see me let alone my cards and this wasnt the first time the guy in seat 1 had thought i had passed.

Imo this isnt my problem. Its his responsibilty to ensure ive acted.

So I raise, and the dealer says action stands. Im thinking wtf? Seat 1 then pushes his chips in. I realise that he obviously verbally declared 'all in'. He then says are you sure? Oh it doesnt matter, im all in anyway. Then the SB goes into the tank and starts muttering about racing. Mark the floor manager has been watching, and already looked at me to acknowledge the confuseaments.

Rightly or wrongly im now thinkin this is a bad situation for me. Its a sattelite, were 7 places of the seats. Im going to have to call if the SB shoves and I dont like this spot at all anymore.

So I decide to confuse things a bit more and ask the dealer, why he just said action stands. He explains that seat 1 had said all in before i acted. I said thats wrong and Mark then told the dealer he was wrong and that the button could take his chips back.

The button decides to take his chips back and the SB and BB fold.

wtf. if I'm reading this rightly it's a horrible ruling. ignoring the oot nonsense, when it gets to the player he says 'are you sure? Oh it doesnt matter, im all in anyway' and the floor still rule that this doesn't go and he can have his chips back. is that correct? truly awful if so

[sweepstr]

a long time ago in pokerland if a player bet out of turn,they were frozen out of the action for the rest of the hand only being able to check and call.this penalty seemed fair to me.on thursday night i had a similar situation, i raise utg with ak suited and am called by a station.flop comes 724.before i get a chance to bet he has already moved all of his chips across the line.i ask for a ruling.td says the bet stands.i show ak and fold.he now turns over aq.it was almost as if he was just doing it on purpose.he doesnt get penalised and it was esp annoying as i was about to bet and would have had to then call his all in bet.he doesnt get any penalty at all and just carries on as normal. does not seem right to me. but i had to abide by it.