Ruling regarding out of turn bet

[EvilPie]

This wasn't me but I'm curious to what people think the ruling is here.

We raise from 1200 up to 3500 in the cut off.

Dealer announces that "action stands" as the button has already shoved before us out of turn.

Obviously his action doesn't stand but that isn't the point here.

The fact that the dealer didn't announce the out of turn bet and we didn't see it is the issue.

Can we now take our raise back and make a call thus forcing his all in to stand?

The actual ruling was that the button's shove didn't stand and he took his chips back which sucks as we had JJ.

However, what if we were at it and wanted our chips back? Can we have them back now that we suspect the button is going to shove to our raise?

The main point here as I see it is that the dealer didn't announce the out of turn bet. Is it still our responsibility to look out for out of turn bets?

[Cf]

Yes, it's the players responsibility to be aware of the action taking place. The dealer is there merely to assist you, but responsibility ultimitely lands on you.

[StuartHopkin]

Woah there nelly.

The dealer must have announced it or it would have made no sense when he said 'action stands'

I must not have been paying attention.

I obv cant take my raise back.

[EvilPie]

Woah there nelly.

The dealer must have announced it or it would have made no sense when he said 'action stands'

I must not have been paying attention.

I obv cant take my raise back.

Oh right. You said you made your bet then he said 'action stands'.

I thought you meant the dealer hadn't announced the all in.

Still interested to know what the decision should be if the dealer hasn't announced it.

[StuartHopkin]

Pretty sure it makes no difference if the dealer says it or not.

[EvilPie]

I don't know.

I always thought that if you called but the dealer hadn't announced a raise you could have your chips back.

Seems a similar situation to me.

Maybe I'm wrong on that one as well though.

[StuartHopkin]

I don't know.

I always thought that if you called but the dealer hadn't announced a raise you could have your chips back.

Seems a similar situation to me.

Maybe I'm wrong on that one as well though.

No thats defo wrong to, its up to you to keep an eye on whats happening. Almost as if the dealer is their to guide you through the rocky waters of the donkfest.

[gatso]

Can we now take our raise back and make a call thus forcing his all in to stand?

that cannot be a serious question

[CRIPPIN]

I'm by no way an expert but this all sounds very wrong to me.

You are responsible for looking for out of turn bets, why? If the player making this bet pushes chips over the line (without a verbal declaration) JUST before you announce a bet then it is still your responsibility to realise this? This can't be right.


Surely it would only be right and proper that HIS bet should stand and you should be given the opportunity to either retract yours or call the all in.

I understand that these views may conflight with the 'rules' (if there is an official set) but surely they would be in the interests of fair play.

[ScottMGee]

I'm by no way an expert but this all sounds very wrong to me.

You are responsible for looking for out of turn bets, why? If the player making this bet pushes chips over the line (without a verbal declaration) JUST before you announce a bet then it is still your responsibility to realise this? This can't be right.


Surely it would only be right and proper that HIS bet should stand and you should be given the opportunity to either retract yours or call the all in.

I understand that these views may conflight with the 'rules' (if there is an official set) but surely they would be in the interests of fair play.

An interesting take on 'fair play'.

The button (no paying attention or maybe your cards are hidden) raises all in thinking you are not in the hand, a second or so later you raise not realising the button had raised.

You think that it is fair that you should be able to amend your bet to a call, in order for him to be forced to have his all in stand? Do you not think that this would be angle shooting.

[CRIPPIN]

I'm by no way an expert but this all sounds very wrong to me.

You are responsible for looking for out of turn bets, why? If the player making this bet pushes chips over the line (without a verbal declaration) JUST before you announce a bet then it is still your responsibility to realise this? This can't be right.


Surely it would only be right and proper that HIS bet should stand and you should be given the opportunity to either retract yours or call the all in.

I understand that these views may conflight with the 'rules' (if there is an official set) but surely they would be in the interests of fair play.

An interesting take on 'fair play'.

The button (no paying attention or maybe your cards are hidden) raises all in thinking you are not in the hand, a second or so later you raise not realising the button had raised.

You think that it is fair that you should be able to amend your bet to a call, in order for him to be forced to have his all in stand? Do you not think that this would be angle shooting.

Where was it ever said that the out of turn player didn't think that you were in the hand? And yes, you should be responsible for knowing what is going on before you but cannot be held responsible for knowing what someone has done out of turn to your left

[dousche]

i thought if you acted out of turn your bet stood unless the action changed. imo, your raise stands, he takes his chips back and reassesses. you're both guilty of not paying enough attention to whats going on at the table

[dousche]

and as for the angle shooting bit, i think jamming out of turn to get the last move is much more of an exploitable angle than amending your raise to a call. if you wanted to get all in you should have noticed his shove, limped, then called when the action came back to you.

[EvilPie]

Can we now take our raise back and make a call thus forcing his all in to stand?

that cannot be a serious question

Yes it is.

If we haven't been made aware of an out of turn bet by someone to our left so we make a raise surely we are allowed our chips back.

It can't be our responsibility to watch action to our left. If you know that someone's all in out of turn it drastically changes your raising range obviously so it's only fair that you're allowed to re-evaluate.

What I'm saying is can you re-evaluate your raise to a call thus forcing him to make his raise. If your raise stands then he gets to re-evaluate his shove so maybe it should work both ways?

[StuartHopkin]

Can we now take our raise back and make a call thus forcing his all in to stand?

that cannot be a serious question

It can't be our responsibility to watch action to our left.

So whos is it then?