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Thatcher dead?
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Topic: Thatcher dead? (Read 46789 times)
tonytats
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Posts: 2649
Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #150 on:
April 08, 2013, 09:43:30 PM »
Quote from: TightEnd on April 08, 2013, 07:37:06 PM
Quote from: jakally on April 08, 2013, 07:35:50 PM
It's amazing (to me) how many intelligent, articulate, people, are completely one-eyed on this subject.
I would pay zero attention to anyone who thinks Thatcher was 100% wonderful, and refuses to accept she had faults, and made errors, just as I would not listen to anyone who claims that everything she did was bad, and will not acknowledge her strengths, or achievements.
This thread pretty much proves that debate on the subject is pointless, as the majority of people who want to talk about her, are completely closed-minded to the other side.
The most divisive British public figure of any of our lives, that is for sure.
2 very good quotes ,I quite liked her ,my dad loathes her ,we always argue about her when talk gets round to her ,my dad blames her for mine closures , I blame Arthur scar gill ,he blames her for the decline in British manufacturing and reliance on the stock market / city / banking to keep us farting in silk pants ,the wheels of which have come off that recently
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luther101
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Posts: 1603
Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #151 on:
April 08, 2013, 09:43:58 PM »
Quote from: Jon MW on April 08, 2013, 09:13:28 PM
About 1% of our coal is imported from the EU, a lot of that might be from Germany where they continue to bend EU rules on state subsidies - but I'd rather have their cheap coal and not have their polluted atmosphere than doing it ourselves.
Like Tighty said fossil fuels are the least preferred option because of their CO2 impact, if we could do it as cheap as Australia or Colombia we'd probably get over it - but as we can't, and as renewables won't produce enough we're left with as much power as nuclear can produce with the left over being run on imports which aren't just cheaper - but massively cheaper - than if we did it ourselves.
I was replying to Rich about the 1981 situation, and the Tories - at the time - closed our mines, and imported coal from (the very thankful) subsidized German coal fields.
I'm not being rude Jon, but you appear to have have little idea how the present day fuel from which Uk electricity is sourced with your 'CO2 impact' comment.
Would it surprise you that in the last quarter of 2012 'at 35.4%, the share of coal-fired generation reached its highest third-quarter share in 14 years, keeping well ahead of the 28.2% share held by gas and 22.3% stake held by nuclear generation'.
That's 63.6% of very 'CO2 impact' fuel being burnt to keep your laptop humming.
The point I was trying to make to the Thatcher Apologists who believe Maggie was right to smash our miners is that maybe a bloody island built on 300 years of coal reserves should be contributing more than 300k tons 'of the 11.2m tonnes of coal burned in the third quarter in 2012'.
Maybe having our own coal industry might be good for UK jobs?
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tonytats
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Posts: 2649
Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #152 on:
April 08, 2013, 09:47:57 PM »
Quite right about reinvesting in coal mines , but when we shut the mines we should have followed the French example and kick started nuclear generatin power plants
Have you ever seen Luke sky walker or jean luc Picard or any sci/ fi futurist film where people are shovelling coal into boilers?to power machines
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Jon MW
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Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #153 on:
April 08, 2013, 09:54:09 PM »
Quote from: luther101 on April 08, 2013, 09:43:58 PM
Quote from: Jon MW on April 08, 2013, 09:13:28 PM
About 1% of our coal is imported from the EU, a lot of that might be from Germany where they continue to bend EU rules on state subsidies - but I'd rather have their cheap coal and not have their polluted atmosphere than doing it ourselves.
Like Tighty said fossil fuels are the least preferred option because of their CO2 impact, if we could do it as cheap as Australia or Colombia we'd probably get over it - but as we can't, and as renewables won't produce enough we're left with as much power as nuclear can produce with the left over being run on imports which aren't just cheaper - but massively cheaper - than if we did it ourselves.
I was replying to Rich about the 1981 situation, and the Tories - at the time - closed our mines, and imported coal from (the very thankful) subsidized German coal fields.
I'm not being rude Jon, but you appear to have have little idea how the present day fuel from which Uk electricity is sourced with your 'CO2 impact' comment.
Would it surprise you that in the last quarter of 2012 'at 35.4%, the share of coal-fired generation reached its highest third-quarter share in 14 years, keeping well ahead of the 28.2% share held by gas and 22.3% stake held by nuclear generation'.
That's 63.6% of very 'CO2 impact' fuel being burnt to keep your laptop humming.
The point I was trying to make to the Thatcher Apologists who believe Maggie was right to smash our miners is that maybe a bloody island built on 300 years of coal reserves should be contributing more than 300k tons 'of the 11.2m tonnes of coal burned in the third quarter in 2012'.
Maybe having our own coal industry might be good for UK jobs?
I'm pretty sure I covered the fact that we still had to rely on a lot of coal (primarily as imports) in the post you quoted???
11m tonnes sounds like a lot but it's nothing compared to the likes of countries like Australia with their 76 billion tonnes of reserves, and other countries like them. And their coal is in vastly bigger seams with less impurities - i.e. we can never ever get it cheaper than from them.
Even when you take in to account the jobs it would create and the multiplier effect on the economy that would have - it's still cheaper to import it.
All that coal in our ground - might be a handy reserve a long way down the line when other people start running out though, I think it's probably best to keep it their until then.
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 blonde MTT League August Champion
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5 Star HORSE Classic - 2007 Razz Champion
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luther101
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1603
Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #154 on:
April 08, 2013, 09:54:53 PM »
Quote from: tonytats on April 08, 2013, 09:47:57 PM
Quite right about reinvesting in coal mines , but when we shut the mines we should have followed the French example and kick started nuclear generatin power plants
Have you ever seen Luke sky walker or jean luc Picard or any sci/ fi futurist film where people are shovelling coal into boilers?to power machines
Exactly .... have you ever seen a British Government/company invest in capital projects/research with the same relish as the Germans, Japanese, or Chinese?
(Your analogy is a bit shit though: a nuclear plant produces steam, to drive a turbine, to produce power ..... Arkwright was doing all that bollox in the mid 18th century)
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luther101
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Posts: 1603
Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #155 on:
April 08, 2013, 09:59:07 PM »
Quote from: Jon MW on April 08, 2013, 09:54:09 PM
Quote from: luther101 on April 08, 2013, 09:43:58 PM
Quote from: Jon MW on April 08, 2013, 09:13:28 PM
About 1% of our coal is imported from the EU, a lot of that might be from Germany where they continue to bend EU rules on state subsidies - but I'd rather have their cheap coal and not have their polluted atmosphere than doing it ourselves.
Like Tighty said fossil fuels are the least preferred option because of their CO2 impact, if we could do it as cheap as Australia or Colombia we'd probably get over it - but as we can't, and as renewables won't produce enough we're left with as much power as nuclear can produce with the left over being run on imports which aren't just cheaper - but massively cheaper - than if we did it ourselves.
I was replying to Rich about the 1981 situation, and the Tories - at the time - closed our mines, and imported coal from (the very thankful) subsidized German coal fields.
I'm not being rude Jon, but you appear to have have little idea how the present day fuel from which Uk electricity is sourced with your 'CO2 impact' comment.
Would it surprise you that in the last quarter of 2012 'at 35.4%, the share of coal-fired generation reached its highest third-quarter share in 14 years, keeping well ahead of the 28.2% share held by gas and 22.3% stake held by nuclear generation'.
That's 63.6% of very 'CO2 impact' fuel being burnt to keep your laptop humming.
The point I was trying to make to the Thatcher Apologists who believe Maggie was right to smash our miners is that maybe a bloody island built on 300 years of coal reserves should be contributing more than 300k tons 'of the 11.2m tonnes of coal burned in the third quarter in 2012'.
Maybe having our own coal industry might be good for UK jobs?
I'm pretty sure I covered the fact that we still had to rely on a lot of coal (primarily as imports) in the post you quoted???
11m tonnes sounds like a lot but it's nothing compared to the likes of countries like Australia with their 76 billion tonnes of reserves, and other countries like them. And their coal is in vastly bigger seams with less impurities - i.e. we can never ever get it cheaper than from them.
Even when you take in to account the jobs it would create and the multiplier effect on the economy that would have - it's still cheaper to import it.
All that coal in our ground - might be a handy reserve a long way down the line when other people start running out though, I think it's probably best to keep it their until then.
I thought you were worried about CO2 emissions .... what's the 'Carbon Footprint' on shipping coal 16,000 miles from Australia?
The new ethos is Sustainability my man!
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tonytats
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Posts: 2649
Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #156 on:
April 08, 2013, 10:03:09 PM »
Quote from: luther101 on April 08, 2013, 09:54:53 PM
Quote from: tonytats on April 08, 2013, 09:47:57 PM
Quite right about reinvesting in coal mines , but when we shut the mines we should have followed the French example and kick started nuclear generatin power plants
Have you ever seen Luke sky walker or jean luc Picard or any sci/ fi futurist film where people are shovelling coal into boilers?to power machines
Exactly .... have you ever seen a British Government/company invest in capital projects/research with the same relish as the Germans, Japanese, or Chinese?
(Your analogy is a bit shit though: a nuclear plant produces steam, to drive a turbine, to produce power ..... Arkwright was doing all that bollox in the mid 18th century)
Not really try getting a coalman out to the delta quadrant for a delivery
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neeko
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Posts: 1762
Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #157 on:
April 08, 2013, 10:06:47 PM »
Quote from: luther101 on April 08, 2013, 09:54:53 PM
Quote from: tonytats on April 08, 2013, 09:47:57 PM
Quite right about reinvesting in coal mines , but when we shut the mines we should have followed the French example and kick started nuclear generatin power plants
Have you ever seen Luke sky walker or jean luc Picard or any sci/ fi futurist film where people are shovelling coal into boilers?to power machines
Exactly .... have you ever seen a British Government/company invest in capital projects/research with the same relish as the Germans, Japanese, or Chinese?
China have bought half the oil fields in Africa and South America, Japan spent the '80's buying any real estate that was for sale in the US - the Germans bought a lot of villas in Spain.(oops)
All countries invest abroad, china is now doing exactly what the UK did in the C19th.
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There is no problem so bad that a politician cant make it worse.
http://www.dec.org.uk
Rod Paradise
Hero Member
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Posts: 7647
Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #158 on:
April 08, 2013, 10:06:53 PM »
Quote from: Jon MW on April 08, 2013, 09:13:28 PM
About 1% of our coal is imported from the EU, a lot of that might be from Germany where they continue to bend EU rules on state subsidies - but I'd rather have their cheap coal and not have
their polluted atmosphere than doing it ourselves.
Like Tighty said fossil fuels are the least preferred option because of their CO2 impact, if we could do it as cheap as Australia or Colombia we'd probably get over it - but as we can't, and as renewables won't produce enough we're left with as much power as nuclear can produce with the left over being run on imports which aren't just cheaper - but massively cheaper - than if we did it ourselves.
WTF? So we import it and do what with it exactly? Suck the power out of it?
If nuclear power is so clean where are the nuclear facilities in London?
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May the bird of paradise fly up your nose, with a badger on its back.
neeko
Hero Member
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Posts: 1762
Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #159 on:
April 08, 2013, 10:14:38 PM »
Quote from: luther101 on April 08, 2013, 09:54:53 PM
Exactly .... have you ever seen a British Government/company invest in capital projects/research with the same relish as the Germans, Japanese, or Chinese?
)
Rolls Royce, JCB, BAe, Dyson, ARM, Glaxo, Astra Zeneca, .... The UK does invest a lot in R&D and the UK universities are not exactly in the same league as North Korea.
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There is no problem so bad that a politician cant make it worse.
http://www.dec.org.uk
Jon MW
Hero Member
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Posts: 6191
Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #160 on:
April 08, 2013, 10:16:27 PM »
Quote from: Rod Paradise on April 08, 2013, 10:06:53 PM
Quote from: Jon MW on April 08, 2013, 09:13:28 PM
About 1% of our coal is imported from the EU, a lot of that might be from Germany where they continue to bend EU rules on state subsidies - but I'd rather have their cheap coal and not have
their polluted atmosphere than doing it ourselves.
Like Tighty said fossil fuels are the least preferred option because of their CO2 impact, if we could do it as cheap as Australia or Colombia we'd probably get over it - but as we can't, and as renewables won't produce enough we're left with as much power as nuclear can produce with the left over being run on imports which aren't just cheaper - but massively cheaper - than if we did it ourselves.
WTF? So we import it and do what with it exactly? Suck the power out of it?
If nuclear power is so clean where are the nuclear facilities in London?
A bit of a mixed thread because of the cross purposes of supporting nuclear but also needing coal - we reduce our co2 by subsidising nuclear power - but we don't have enough of it to do without coal (by quite a long way). Mining causes pollution and is expensive, we avoid that if other people do it for us. I think is my argument for the status quo.
There was a nuclear station at dungeness wasn't there? in nuclear terms if that went pear shaped it would be 'close enough' to London to matter.
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 blonde MTT League August Champion
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - 2007 Razz Champion
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luther101
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1603
Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #161 on:
April 08, 2013, 10:25:02 PM »
Quote from: Jon MW on April 08, 2013, 10:16:27 PM
Quote from: Rod Paradise on April 08, 2013, 10:06:53 PM
Quote from: Jon MW on April 08, 2013, 09:13:28 PM
About 1% of our coal is imported from the EU, a lot of that might be from Germany where they continue to bend EU rules on state subsidies - but I'd rather have their cheap coal and not have
their polluted atmosphere than doing it ourselves.
Like Tighty said fossil fuels are the least preferred option because of their CO2 impact, if we could do it as cheap as Australia or Colombia we'd probably get over it - but as we can't, and as renewables won't produce enough we're left with as much power as nuclear can produce with the left over being run on imports which aren't just cheaper - but massively cheaper - than if we did it ourselves.
WTF? So we import it and do what with it exactly? Suck the power out of it?
If nuclear power is so clean where are the nuclear facilities in London?
A bit of a mixed thread because of the cross purposes of supporting nuclear but also needing coal - we reduce our co2 by subsidising nuclear power - but we don't have enough of it to do without coal (by quite a long way). Mining causes pollution and is expensive, we avoid that if other people do it for us. I think is my argument for the status quo.
There was a nuclear station at dungeness wasn't there? in nuclear terms if that went pear shaped it would be 'close enough' to London to matter.
Eh .... mining produces the coal, it's only when it's BURNT, to produce power, pollutants are emitted. Carbon capture in modern plants reduces many noxious emissions.
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Sheriff Fatman
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Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #162 on:
April 08, 2013, 11:08:27 PM »
We should at least remember fondly her greatest achievement - she was the undoubted star of Spitting Image.
How many people nowadays could name half of the cabinet? Thanks to the late Sunday night viewing, pretty much everyone at school could do so for the years that it ran.
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sovietsong
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Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #163 on:
April 08, 2013, 11:39:09 PM »
Pretty gutted to be honest. I was really looking forward to "The Unforgettable Jeremy Beadle"
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In the category of Funniest Poster I nominate sovietsong. - mantis 21/12/2012
The-Crow
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Re: Thatcher dead?
«
Reply #164 on:
April 09, 2013, 12:11:57 AM »
highlights on youtube 24 minutes in
«
Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 12:21:57 AM by The-Crow
»
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don't let all this stuff scare ya. its all a bit of fun
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