blonde poker forum

Hi - Please bear in mind I have been away since Christmas - today is my first day back in the UK - at the risk of starting a full scale war I would like to ask what happened to the P4C thread?

I can't find it and just wanted to know how it all ended - well I hope!
What conclusions were reached and what answers did the forum get back?

Can someone just point me in t he direction of the thread please - as its not ongoing I'm assuming all is lovely, we are all friends now and all the concerns have been answered satisfactorily?

Thanks - and a happy new year to all.

Tracey

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=17550.0

And

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=18107.0

Thanks for that -

I've just read the end of the threads and basically nothing has happened since I went away?  Am I missing something, or does no one want answers to the questions they posed. I know the thread was supposed to have been locked down over Christmas but am I the only one wanting to know answers?

Tracey

 ;popcorn; ;popcorn;

Cool, the 'Slightly Annoying' thread was beginning to bore me anyway.






Just joking Tracey, I hope you find the answers you're looking for.

For me the issue is closed.

I don't believe there was any dishonesty involved just a fair slice of incompetence and major comunication problems.

I won't support them until I am satisfied that these issues have been addressed and that efficiency has been improved greatly. I doubt this will happen so my 'charity pennies' will go elsewhere.

I don't see the point in continuing the debate, it wasn't going anywhere.

I made the decision to lock the thread over Christmas & New Year, & we then re-opened it, but no further Posts were made.

Various conclusions can be made.

The matter is open for debate, & I'll contribute as & when necessary, but my personal position in this matter is now, based upon what I know, & on the reaction of others, includiing those associated with P4C & G4L, firmly fixed.

I cannot support P4C or G4L any longer, & I will not allow blondepoker to do so any longer.

Where Charity is invloved, total transparency is essential, & a reasonable % of the money must go to the end cause. This has not been the case here, in my opinion, hence my carefully considered decisions.

hope you are feeling better Mr K

Not sure of you can answer this one Tikay - but in your opinion do you feel its an incompetency issue or something more sinister?

On the mend Mr Boo Sir, on the mend. Half the country seems to have Man 'Flu. But I had it worst.

I dunno about that Tikay, I was telling Tighty about James' man flu earlier and he insisted he had it far worse also.... maybe we need a poll?  ;hide;

As for P4C, totals of the income received from the events of 2006 (possibly more but I'm uncertain) were published on the P4C forum, also there were names and amounts of grants that have been made in this period (again I do not know if this is all the grants made)

The other financial questions that were left to Davey/Jaggers are still waiting a reply.. I believe.

Neither of those adjectives fits comfortably with me in this matter, & I am not suggesting either.

I will, if requested, explain in due course my position, & how I arrived at it. But Stacey got the money, eventually, thanks to you guys, & that's what matters. Sadly, the Hosssie never did, but the last we heard, the Trustees were gonna get back to us on that.

I think special mention should be made of Simon Trumper, who has been tireless in offering to support Maureen & Stacey this last month or so. What a top bloke.
Sadly, young Reece is not too well right now, but that's nothing new, & he has the heart of a lion, so from all at blonde, we wish the lad a speedy recovery.

Yes - agreed - all thoughts and love with Maureen, Stacey and Reece x

I am not a Member of the P4C Forum, so I don't know, but I am sure you are correct.

As to your final sentence, yes, that's correct, so far as I know.

brush/carpet it seems.

By whom?

Sorry that dindt really help buy saying that, i was meaning it seems that matter has been delt with by P4C enough to let things go quiet and get forgotten about.

Not you Tikay.

No prob mate.

Certainly not forgotten about by me!

I was accused by many of deliberately "stirring" & "causing trouble". That's just ridiculous.

We eventually got the money to Stacey, so that was good.

So we decided to lock the thread for Christmas, & quietly re-open it in the New Year, & see if anyone Posted. They never did, so I said no more.

If I'm asked to comment further, or justify my actions, or the position blonde has taken, you can be assured, I/we most certainly will.

I am immensely proud of the way the blonde Members dealt with this. It was, after all, mostly their money that was donated.

But we wanted to "cool things" over Christmas, as, when all is said & done, everybody started out on this road with good intentions. But somewhere along the line, things went off the track. It was never, in my personal opinion, intended that the things that happened, would happen, it just went wrong somewhere.

The main thing I want to know is the charity's plan for the future.

Whether or not they intend to disband, if not, does any restructuring need to be done in 2007, or are there other means by which they mean to do better?

I considered bumping the old thread, but did not feel the need to press them. It is, after all, in their own interests to post here and make their case. I imagine there are many people on here not intending to give them a penny of support unitl the charity can increase their level of confidence the money is doing good.

If the charity continues to trade, but they just want to bury their heads in the sand on this issue. If they choose not to defend themselves on here, they will undoubtedly hurt themselves even more.

I wont comment on p4c anymore as I am sure you were all quite clear on my feelings about them and Maureen,Reece and Stacey and how they handled their business affairs.

What I would like to do is congratulate Blue Square for taking 4 masseuses to Bolton at great cost to themselves (imagine the cost for all 4 from a top Chelsea Health Studio) and allowing all tips made to go to a local charity. The local charity was Bolton Hospice who looked after my father in his final days and I am sure the collections will total a couple of grand or so (many of they players were tipping 20s and fifties). I am sure Mr Raab will confirm exactly how much was donated when the tins have all been emptied and I have been assured every single penny collected goes straight to the hospice.

Blue Square announced the figure at the end of each day - I believe it was £1,200 after Day Two. I was not present for Day Three, I won't bore you with the reasons.....

Howard Plant had SEVEN massages, & donated several hundred pounds. His jokes are a little wearisome (after 200+ repeats) but his heart is pure gold.

There is a common misconception here, & I'm not sure it's widely realised.

This thread is entitled "P4C", & Tank refers to "the charity".

P4C is NOT a charity. Nor is it a Limited Company. It is simply a trading name, & as such, it is not subject to the strictures of Company Law, or the Charity Commission.

Game4Life is a Registered Charity, & Game4Life Enterprises Ltd is a Limited Company, & both are obliged to (and one assumes do) comply with the relevnt authorities.

I gave up trying to understand that a while ago  :D

Well therein lies the root of the problem......

The entire poker community thinks Poker4Charity is a Charity. It's not.

So we dissing P4C isn't being anti-charity after all.  :D

I guess I want to know why answers haven't been given - after all if everything is ok it would be in the charitys best interests to give us information, and if hasn't got the right answers then I would also like to know.

I have worked in the city in the past and been so strictly regulated you would think the charity commission was only running a local knitting group. I understand financial issues and if there is a need for this to be reported to the appropriate body I, for one, would not hesitate.

I don't want to do that - I can't honestly believe that is needed, but I am frustrated by a charity, who has a responsibility to be honest and open with the public, and yet still continues to leave questions unanswered.

The hospital trust still hasn't received its donation?  Despite stong assurances that it would be dealt with as quickly as possible? I know we have had Christmas but it's only a couple of days for goodness sake.

This will not go away - there is too much of a smell on this forum for it just to be raindeer poo - come on P4C or whoever this charity is - give us some answers.   

All noted & agreed. We can't force them to respond on here, but by not doing so, they know how bad it looks. It's their decison. In the absence of responses, folks will draw their own conclusions. I hope they do respond, & I've encouraged Andy to do so.

I'd remind you though that P4C is NOT a Charity, & as such, not subject to Charity Commission disciplines.

I have to admit I am still confused..the name poker4charity would assume that it is indeed a charity, but Tony you are saying its not?

Game4life is a registered charity which poker and various other sports contribute to. How can it not be a charity?

I am a bit dissappointed that Andy has not up till now posted the relevant information that has been asked.

Ang did her best and posted what she knew and a big thumbs up to her...Trace bless her..tried her best to defend p4c in the only way she knows how...slag everyone off LOL.

Saying that when I posted a "give them time to explain" post I was also attacked so maybe I can see her reasoning.

The way I see it is that a meeting took place before Christmas where Stacey got the money that was due to her...and that Andy would report on p4c forum all the relevant information that we all want to know.

This has not happened.

Ball is in your court Andy.

The total raised at leg 1 of the GUKPT was £1,140. 100% of this is being donated to the Bolton Hospice. I'd like to thank everyone who donated and I hope you enjoyed your massages. The masseuses were only there on Saturday and Sunday.

We will be supporting another local good cause at leg 2 of the Tour in Walsall next month.

A great idea.....well done to Jon and fellow organisors for coming up with it. ;applause; ;applause;

Well done Blue Square, that's great stuff.

   
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All noted & agreed. We can't force them to respond on here, but by not doing so, they know how bad it looks. It's their decison. In the absence of responses, folks will draw their own conclusions. I hope they do respond, & I've encouraged Andy to do so.

I'd remind you though that P4C is NOT a Charity, & as such, not subject to Charity Commission disciplines.
[/quote]

Are you sure they are aware of how they are perceived?  I do not think so because if they were, surely they would have come forth with the information they agreed to post if it was all above board?  If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then.......................

Brilliant, well done Jonathan.

Tikay originally said that £1,200 had been raised, where's the missing £60  ;shitfanhit;  ;nemesis; ;nemesis; ;nemesis;











OK, I know Tikay only said "I believe it was £1,200". Naughty Diceman  ;ifm; ;hide; ;smackedbottom; lol

It is my clear understanding that Poker 4 Charity is NOT a Registered Charity, & by definition, not a Charity at all. It's simply a Trading Name.

Game4Life IS a Registered Charity. Game4Life Enterprises Limited is a Limited Company. Money collected by P4C is "unregulated", they can do whatever they wish with it, quite legally. I assume they choose to divide it all between the Charity & the Limited Company. I have no idea how they divide up the money collected by P4C between the Charity & the Limited Company. But as you can see, it makes working out the "what % is given to Charity" well-nigh impossible to keep track of.

I too am surprised & disappointed that Andy has not got back to us, as he promised he would. But then again, I know he's in a helluva tough spot - I honestly & truly believe he's doing all he can, but only has limited access to the info he needs. When Tom, Andy, Tony & myself met in Stoke., much of the meeting was held under "off the record" rules, so a great deal of info I have I am not at liberty to discuss, and it's up to Andy to provide the info, I am not prepared to go against that "off the record" discussion. It's possible, of course, that it's been published elsewhere, perhaps on the P4C Forum, I don't know.

Yes, Ang did try & help, I have nothing but respect & admiration for her. Yes, Trace defended the P4C corner like a Lion, again, I respect her immensely for that.

All this bad blood & angst, folks set against each other, all caused  by poor communication really. The blondes donated the money, it was for a charitable cause, they are entitled to total transparency. It took a very long time to sort this, a delay that was not necessary.

None of the monies collected belonged to anyone except the Charity, but we are absolutely & 100% entitled to full transparency. That's only right & proper, but P4C is wholly unregulated, so we have no recourse except to desist from donating until & unless we see where the money goes, & promptly too. To to my mind, P4C, & the two G4Life's have only themselves to blame. I have been accused by senior people in Poker of mischief-making in this matter- I utterly deny that.

It's unlikely that the blondes will donate again to P4C/G4L until there are answers, so the ball is in their court.

The suggeston that it was "just incompetence" does not wash with me. Having been openly criticised over several months, it's not "incompetence" that causes them not to respond, it's just they choose not to. That's not incompetence which is, by definition, "inadvertent", or "a mistake". They could not possibly have "forgotten" to tell us, they must have chosen not to. That's not incompetence, thats a concious decision.

Hence blonde now have strict rules on Fund-Raising via our Forum.

So you must draw your own conclusions  about the whole affair until or unless we are given the facts.

I have never suggested, & am not doing so now, that anything "sinister" or dishonest has occurred. I am happy to openly state my view on this openly - no financial dishonesty (i.e., theft) is involved.  Lack of clarity, & much muddying of the water, yes. Very hard to understand, all this.

Good intentions by all, no doubt about that, but the wheels came off somewhere along the way.

Behave, you......

I actually wanted a massage by one of those rather lovely Ladies, but at my time of life, it's not wise to get involved in these thngs. They might break something. Like one of my blood vessels.

I would like to thank you guys for your continued support with Reece and take this chance to update you on his progress.

Friday 12 January Stacey received a call from Birmingham Children's Hospital, it was the results of Reece recent tests to see if there is anything they can do for him now his livers are very poor. Unfortunately the only choice we have now is to either take a chance with a bowl and liver transplant or nothing. Stacey will be taking Reece back down there on sunday where he will receive some more tests, then if she agrees, he will be placed the the transplant list. Bowl transplants are very tricky op's so Stacey will be offered counseling to prepare her for when the time comes that there is a matched donor available and also a lot of other things she will have to be prepared for. We do not have any idea when this will happen, as you are all aware, it will take the family of another child to donate organs in order for Reece to have a chance of life, and we all know what an horrific decision that would be for someone already dealing with the passing of a child will be.

Anyway here are acouple of piccy's fom this weekend.




 One is for you Tony, yesterday we took Reece on his 1st train journey as he too loves the trains. He didn't manage to stay awake too long but he enjoyed it whilst he did.

Such a sweet little face - doesn't deserve his troubles. x

Tx Dign, thought we would portray how he still enjoys the little things in life.

I know Reece is exceedingly unwell, but what exactly is his condition, if I may be so bold to ask.

best wishes

snoops ;snoopy;

I have never posted in this thread or any P4C/G4L thread until now but this paragraph and the line above it amazes me.

Why would a registered charity need to set up an "unregulated" traing name with which to collect money? Why not just do it through the registered charity? If I'm being thick here I apologise.

Reece was born with a protruding bowl, there is a technical name for this but basically, his bowl was on the outside of his tummy, he was op'd on the day he was born to return the bowl to the correct place, this was unsuccessful, so 6 weeks later , when Reece was 40 weeks term time they op's again , to investigate how much damaged had occured, unfortunatly it was a lot, so they had to remove all but 17cm of his bowl leaving him with short gut. He has fought long and hard for his life and has reached a very advanced 2 yrs, he is totaly reliant on TPN which is fed into a central vein. This
TPN has killed his livers along with line infections.

What a beautiful little boy Nun ,  i really dont know what to say , but pray this year will see him reach his 3 rd birthday fit and well , love and kisses to Reece xxx

I assume your questions are rhetorical, but in any event, it would be wrong for me to attempt to answer them, that is for P4C/G4L.

this was answered in the other thread, somewhere near the end I think. IIRC it was if they ever wanted to open a charity shop or an online poker room it would need to be done through their trading arm.

Yes, they weren't questions aimed at anyone in particular. I'm just at a loss as to the thinking behind the seperate branches of the one "organisation". I see Byron has now answered my question, thanks Byron. I assume from this answer that having a seperate trading name is a normal thing for all charities with a charity shop then?

Nun,

What a brave grandson you have. I really wish him all the best for a happy healthy future.

Yes, they stated they were advised to do this by their Legal Advisers.  But that in itself begs a whole lot of questions as to how the advice was implemented. I don't know anyone who realised that P4C was NOT a Charity.

I am Reece's Grandma, not his mum, this is his mommy, and what a brave daughter i have too.

Indeed she is. You must be proud.

F Y P Maureen              :kiss:

Reece is a beautiful boy, I wish him all the best, and your whole family Nun.





 
I don't think so... 

I was under the impression Game4life Enterprises Ltd was the trading arm of the company.

Nun my thoughts are with you and all your familt best wishes.

Tx all.

I am lost for words for once Maureen...Its been lovely seeing his baby pics and now hes a wee toddler....awwwwwww

I wish him good health in the future and my deepest heartfelt wishes go to you and Stacey..keep strong and you know everyone is praying for Reece.

Hes a fighter  :)up

I have been asked to post this:  (Don't shoot the kin messenger please!)


 
Poker4Charity - This was merely a name we came up with when we held our first event in Newcastle over 5 years ago, we never thought at that stage we would register it as a charity. After talking to a few poker pro's they suggested we should try and get charitable status.
 
When it came to registering a name for the charity, the charities commission would not accept the name Poker4Charity as it did not represent what our mission statement was about. Plus poker was not allowed in the name as it was gaming.
 
So we came up with the name Game For Life - This was done because all of the children we had met were indeed Game For Life.
 
The name Poker4Charity still exists as many people knew it as that and we already had a paid forum in the P4C name.

thanks Trace, but really they should post themselves shouldn't they? It doesn't look too good does it, hiding behind you (even though you represent them like a good 'un!)

I actually asked Trace to post this, as I didn't know when I would be getting online, and I am in no way hiding behind anyone,and have never felt the need to hide behind anyone. I thought you would rather have the answer sooner rather than later.

yep, thanks

So is it possible to give us an idea as to when the other answers will be available?
Thanks
Tracey

Why don't you compile a list of questions you want answered, like someone suggested a while ago, and we can work through them.

Ang

great pics,just like to say good luck with any new treatment,little Reece has to go through. kids are stronger than you think ,
my little godson dale was diagnosed with leukemia when he was 2 and now hes 13 playing rugby for wales schoolboys,i seen what he went through with chemotherapy and well ,,..,lets just say kids are tough.,,,..good luck again,and I'm sure you will be in our prayers x

I see Trace/Ang - thanks for the response.

Two final questions from me...

Why weren't the fund raising events held as G4L events then, as this is the actual registered charity?

In the future will fund raising events be held under the G4L banner where the monies collected will be shown in full transparency?

Thanks in advance.

I understand now I think. Thanks for clarifying.