blonde poker forum

http://www.findmadeleine.com/

Please Please all look out for this little girl.

I Echo.

Thoughts to the McCann family..

Millions of hits, so of course some depraved toad crawls out from under his rock to open:

http://www.findmadeliene.com/

http://www.findmadelein.com/

and make a couple of bux out of someone's misery. Nice....

Some progress made today with witnesses/suspects, but BBC not reporting it so I'm not holding my breath.

Personally i am sick to death of the media orgy surrounding her disappearance, i pray she returns as healthy as when she was taken but the media outlets are just abusing the situation to make a packet.

But without that same 'media orgy' her face would not now be known to millions of people, increasing the chance of her return.

It's never nice to think of someone making money out of a situation like this, but it's a necessary evil.

Agree,

The family, quite rightly, are utilising the media to stop this case from disappearing from public notice as similar cases have done in the past.

However Fluhy has a point about the way the media sometime report certain instances. OK they are not happy with the "secrecy" rules of the Portugese authorities and are frustrated at not receiving as much info as they would here in UK.

However it annoys me when they highlight facts like the couple who have reported a possible sighting in Morrocco which they believe the authorities had not acted on. Fine go to the media and ask assistance, but surely this should be by taking it to the authorities and insisting they investigate - not spread it across the front pages.

If it was the case that the young lass was indeed who they had seen, guaranteed she is no longer in Morrocco thanks to the high level coverage in the press.

Geo.

I agree,  when I tune into the news later today I will no doubt see her mothers daily visit to Church being followed by cameras,  how can that help find Madeleine?   Most of the time they are reporting on non news.  Why not report when there is something to actually report.   Like everyone else, I hope she returns as healthy as when she got taken, but sometimes stories are reported on too much and it may be as a way of making some cash for the media like Flushy said. 

Remember the  Jean Charles De Menzies  story from a few years ago or the Jill Dando from about 10 yrs ago?    they were talked about endlessly for about 6 weeks when there was very little new information to actually report. 

i do hope and pray she is found safe and well.

I also hope that when this happens her parents are investigated by social services and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Yes, that will help.


Seriously, it's easy to judge, but we don't really know the facts. At worst these parents were negligent. Nothing the law can do (assuming there is a case to answer) will cause them to suffer more than they are suffering already.

Anyone who has children will know the terrible gut-wrenching feeling of losing them, even if it's only for a moment in Tesco's.


There but for the grace of god....

I'm a natural born worrier and my 2 yr old wears a wrist strap that is joined to me when we are out , i really cant imagine what the parents are going through and pray i never have to .
The media making big bucks out of this i agree , but after seeing this morning last week i would say the parents are lucky .
The little boy who was taken/lost in Greece , his mum was on and told how she never had much press v=coverage or help from British government for many weeks , she felt this didn't help with her case , he will be 18 this year .

we know enough facts to make certain judgements though.

- the restaurant they were eating is was 300 yards away from the apartment

- you could not see the front door of the apartment from where they were eating

- they left three small children in an apartment for hours, the oldest of whom was 4.

- this was not the first night they had left them alone

am I wrong in thinking if this had been mr & mrs working class from stevenage then they wouldnt be getting such an easy time from the press ?

This was exactly the thought I had as well Laz.   They are wealthy though and it is a different set of rules if you come from money.  I just hope it all turns out ok , sadly as time goes by it seems less likely though to end well .
The Police have narrowed it down to Eastern Europe, North Africa, Western Europe and perhaps still Portugal.  They have everywhere covered it seems

what is?

Like Laz said,  if it had been a working class family,  more questions would have been asked regarding them leaving the Kids alone.   I am not qualified to know if I am right or wrong on this though.  I have no Kids or intend having Kids, so I don't understand the pressures involved with parenting.  It may be ok to leave Kids on their own while going out for dinner.  All I know is,  I would rather stay in and eat a pot noddle than do it myself.  I am sure her Mother has beat herself up over this though, so it is wrong of me to make any comment either way.  We all have our views though, right or wrong.

As a parent, I would have never have left children of that age alone. When my then wife and I were taking them aborad at that age we gave up any "social" aspect to evenings because the children came first

However I personally am uncomfortable with making the issue a "class" one...each parent or pair of parents has their own way of parenting from whatsoever background they come from in terms of wealth or "class"

I think this sums it up for me, she could unfortunately now be 1 mile away or another continent. Lets hope that the Portugese Police behind the silence are making headway.

I wasn't making a comment about class or wealth.  Sorry if this was unclear.  I just expressed a view that perhaps the media would have had a less forgiving attitude if the parents concerned were two ex cons who had a history of unemployment and drunkenness.  I may be totally wrong though.  The important matter is she returns safely though

of course you are right.


Perhaps the media are showing uncharacteristic restraint in delaying asking those questions until a more opportune time?

i am trying my hardest not to pass judgement on the parents,my heart goes out to them.but like tightend,when im abroad with my kids i dont even think about doing anything social without them.never in a million years would i leave them alone,not even for a second.my daughter is the same age as maddie and i go to ibiza in 3 weeks,i know i wont let her out of my sight at all for 10 days.

Yep,  you are right

I don't think the McCanns need anyone to tell them they f*cked up. They're more than adequately being 'punished' for it now by the horrible experience they're going through. Similarly, I bet any other parents who have left their kids alone in the past like this sure as hell are taking more care now.

As for the media exposure, it's not the amount of it that gets to me, but the tone. There's the same 'you must show how much this story has affected you or you're worse than Hitler' pressure as we got with Princess Diana. Some people have been genuinely affected by the story of a girl and family they do not know. I haven't. Yes, it's sad, and I hope the girl turns up safe and well, but my life goes on. And yet, I'm almost being forced to feel guilty for not emailing everyone I know to pass on some email message telling them nothing they don't know already. Watching some scummy newspaper hand out advertising masquerading as 'Find Madeline' posters at airports is sickening. Seeing the BBC send out Huw Edwards to read the news standing outside the house of someone who had been charged with nothing, purely to keep up with Sky News in the 'look how much we care' stakes was pathetic.

Celebrities and newspapers offering money as a reward for a case which has not been out of the news makes you wonder what their primary motives are. Phillip Green, JK Rowling, Richard Branson - where is all this money when some kid off a council estate, whose disappearance barely makes the local news, goes missing?

There is something extremely distasteful about this orgy of emoting. Where is society's sense of perspective?

My heart goes out to the family. They made a serious error of judgement (to put it mildly) but does anyone think they don't know that themselves?  They're going to have to live with this forever if their daughter is not found.

God knows what that must feel like.

I've never really understood why people take such young children on Holiday as looking after them is a 24/7 role in itself so the very idea of a "holiday" is a non starter as you can never leave the kids alone. I'm not saying people shouldn't do it or are bad parents for doing it. It just seems like a lot of work coupled with the stress of travelling in the first place. You see parents with young chldren on flights all the time and they just look stressed out of their minds and you wonder why they do it?

Someone dies and it's a tragedy. Several thousand die and it's a statistic.

the relative cheapness of overseas holdiays coupled with the relative expense of UK holidays

the guarantee of good weather

kidsclubs lol (although I always tried to resist...why pack them into a nursery when they get that home?!?!)



that said I didn't until the youngest was 5...I always refused when it was prams, nappies, strollers and all the rest....

Holidays abroad with young kids are great fun.

They run havok in the duty free shop when your flight is 10 hours delayed and they are bored.

They scream non stop on the flight from take off till they fall asleep from exhaustion. Enticing them with the delicious in flight meal may stop the screaming long enough for them to take a look but dont be fooled, the meal will inevitably land on the head of a fellow passenger 3 rows ahead.

Discourage the poor sod/stranger who has unluckly drawn the short straw and ending up sitting next to you and your offspring from speaking, smiling or even looking in the direction of the poor distressed child as he is likely to get a poke in the eye...if not from the child then from the mother if he DARES complain.

You finally land in a small overcrowded airport (Salou) to find the baggage handlers have went on strike, the conveyer belt is not working, the air conditioning is not working, the queue to the toilet is 6 miles long and your kids are in desperate need of a nappy change in a waiting room with hundreds of sweaty people and not enough room to swing a cat (plus ive not had a ciggy for 3 hours and its a non smoking zone).

Airport staff are throwing bags through a small hole in the wall and its pure bedlam. The buggy has disappeared and one bag is missing, 2 and half hours later we board the airport coach to loud cheers from the other passengers who have had to wait   ;gobsmacked;

We then get dropped off at the wrong hotel...dont give a damn by now coz its 4am (16 hours later than we should have arrived) and end up in spending the holiday in a totally different hotel than what we booked.

I love Spain and do it every year.

On the plus side...toddlers are quite happy to fall asleep in a buggy. Find a nice Spanish bar with outside tables and there nothing nicer than sipping a few cocktails on a warm summer nights and watching the local wildlife.

Getting back to the subject...I hope Madeleine is found safe and well. I would be pushing for maximum publicity too if I were in their shoes and to hell if papers are making money out of it.

lol they are off to see the pope on Wednesday, this is just getting silly now.

Said the man who gave €4k away

Regards

M

Don't forget the money i gave away in the tournaments as well!

exactly what I thought . 

There doing everything they can to keep in the public eye, this story has
run for over 3 weeks now. I'm just happy for them the world of News
has gone a bit quite and this is helping to keep this sad story in our media.

Regards

M

yeah that's what I thought. and in the mean time everyone and their grannie has been accused so nothing has actually been achieved.

The world of news may have gone quiet but the News of the World continues with its exceedingly cheap advertising campaign.

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42979000/jpg/_42979605_poster_bodypa.jpg)

The world of news may have gone quiet but the News of the World continues with its exceedingly cheap advertising campaign.

It got your attention

Get in touch with the News of the World give them some inspiration and guidance in what to do.

Regards

M

I feel for the family I really do but this hasn't affected me.  I am like AndrewT on this one, I have sympathy I really do but I don't see what I can do to help. 

Moreover I am with Laz in his assessement.  The parenting skills on show are shocking, how anyone could leave 3 kids at that age on their own while they go out for a meal is beyond me.  I am disgusted by the bláse attitude of the parents.

I know they are suffering for that now.  Perhaps they should have thought about what they where doing in the first instance.

You can guarantee that if it weren't for the fact they come from a middle-class family with well paid jobs they'd be all the bad 'yins. 

I really hope that Madeleine is found safe and well but unfortunately I don't hold out much hope of that being the case.

http://missingkids.co.uk/missingkids/servlet/PublicHomeServlet

yeah, there's something a bit sick about this, you know that somewhere in the News of the World someone did a cost benefit analysis of getting involved like this. Who would trust these people.

I would really love this all to end well, but I'm afraid my gut feeling is shared with GlasgowBandit, fear the worst on this one. Hope I'm wrong, but I do fear the worst.

anyone in here read Private eye? Very nice bit with quotes from the news papers about "the hunt for Madeleine" and it shows you just how crap the British media is and how eager they are the scare monger and convict.

Both Gerry and Kate McCann are now offical suspects in the case.

For those who are wondering what has brought this all about, the theory is that they sedated their children so that they could have an uninterrupted night out. Something went wrong and Madeline died (accidentally). Knowing that if this got out, not only would they both lose their jobs as doctors but they'd have their other children taken away from them, they concocted the 'she was abducted' story.

However, given the lack of a body, it will probably be difficult to get a conviction - hence the hours of questioning trying to get them to crack and confess.

where did you hear that theory Andrew?  I had presumed something a little more violent was suspected as the timing seems to coincide with the results of the analysis of the blood spots that were found in the apartment.  Time will tell I suppose.

i have heard both

seemingly madelines blood was found in a hire car that they didnt hire for 25 days after she went missing and the tests they got back were tests on that blood

On the internet :)

As I said, it's just a theory. The blood spots in the apartment were caused by either spray from an intravenous injection or from resuscitation attempts.

  OMG....Absolutely lost for words.

I think it is only natural to suspect the parents straight away, I know I considered it, I think everyone probably has briefly.  However I don't think it was them and they are definitely not to blame ( In my opinion ). The very fact that they were in a foreign country seems obvious they are not to blame.  If it was in the UK then possibly, however they have no knowledge of the geography of where they were staying, how could they possibly hide a body in an area that was not familiar to them.  The whole area has been searched and still nothing. Unless they had help, it is extremely unlikely they are to blame.  I don't agree with the fact they left the Kids on there own, but no way are they to blame. It is crazy that they have even been named as suspects ( In my opinion ).

From the end of the BBC news article I just read:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6983604.stm

so they find traces of Madeline's blood in a hire car 25 days after her disappearance, hired by her parents, tests carried out in GB, coincidence?

i dont quite follow dewi...

Suspects: they're given special status so that the police can carry out certain questioning etc, and to offer them some protection, this doesn't even mean that they're 'suspects' in the common sense of the word.
The blood goes to the UK for testing because you need very special equipment to work on small traces of blood for these purposes. From these tests you can sometimes work out if the subject had been drugged.
Blood in the car: what on earth does this mean exactly? First: there are other legitimate reasons why the child's mother may have had traces of her daughter's blood on her, from weeks before her disappearance. We cannot yet tie down the "age" of the blood that closesly. Secondly: so the McCann's purportedly killed their daughter, raised the alarm over her disappearance, then during the following two weeks disposed of her body? You kidding me?
All relevant sources have commented on how crap the Portuguese investigation has been from a procedural/forensic perspective. Quite possible that there has been cross contamination etc.
The McCann's kind of went overboard in publicising their daughter's disappearance for two people supposedly involved in her death.....
It's not outwith the realms of possibility that they are being framed. Remember Beligium.....and just high up in society the paedophile rings were operating?

 mate , i like most of your posts , but sometimes you talk pish.

 

 mate ,  there are 3 official suspects in this case , Robert Murat , Kate McCann and Gerry McCann.
 a suspect in Portugal is the same as a suspect in Britain , they are suspected of being involved in the murder or disappearance of Madelaine. i know what your trying to say , but just because the status of suspect is different in Portugal does not mean they are not " suspects " meaning being suspected of committing a crime

 
 yep thats right , she could have cut her finger 6 months ago and traces are on her mum's dress . just go for that then and dont bother investigating it.after all , thats her Mum , Mums dont hurt their children right ??

  remember this could be a murder investigation , so any traces of blood found on or near a suspect or in a suspects property ( villa and car ) should be taken very seriously and not dismissed.


 
 that is one theory , and why would this theory be so hard to believe ? would hardly be the crime of the century would it ?

 remember both parents are doctors , if they are willing to go out for an evening and leave 3 young kids alone in their room to me it is conceivable they may have been willing to give a child drugs or sedate them in order to let them go out


 
 of course that is possible , as in any criminal case , but it seems like your clutching at straws now , instead of looking at logic and facts , you look like your hoping the facts are being misconstrued or the evidence is flawed. you may well be right , but it is up to the Portuguese police to conduct the investigation and we have to trust their verdict in the end.

 
 remember Ian Huntleys reaction with the media ? wouldn't be the first time would it ?

 
 not out the realms of reality no , a bit conspiratorial yes.
 people seem to look for far stretched theories rather than logical ones when they find something hard to believe.

 i must stress , i do not know if the McCanns were involved , i'm just saying you cant rule it out , lets let the Portuguese police get on with finding out what REALLY happened to little Madeleine once and for all.

A very good post BT and very well thought out. You the Polis????

Geo.

Aye Laz I see what you mean, I'd had a few :dontask:

what I was trying to say was that the tests were carried out in GB so far more a possibility of these tests being accurate in comparison to Portugal imo, and if indeed the rumours are true that Madeline's blood was found in the hire car 25 days following her disappearance it changes the whole dynamics of the investigation as we have seen over the last few days. As we dont have all the info to hand I for one would not discount any of the options discussed.

if the mccanns are somehow linked to the poor young girls death how did they escape the media for long enough to move the body twice and dispose of it in a country unfamiliar to them? the media have been following there every move.
if they are involved i suspect a third party involvement as well.

in my opinion due to the many cock ups by portuguese police ie missing the blood in the apartment and actually reletting it shortly after the disapperance, i think there will be enough loopholes for anyone charged with any crime linked too her disappearance to find away to get out of it.

unfortunatley i hate to say it but i dont think we will ever know the real truth.

indeed. I think it's almost safe to say there isn't a worse police force in the world than the Portuguese police who have been working on this case. Jesus, anyone who has ever watched CSI knows that reletting a room (which also means the maid did the cleaning) is not a good idea when you're looking for evidence.
I don't know if the MCCanns themselves did it (I really doubt it) I think the police have just had enough by now and want some sort of resolution and they want to look busy and they don't want it to look like they ballsed it up and so it is fairly easy for them to accuse people now and hope it sticks in the minds of the public so that they can then say "Not enough evidence to take it any further"

I was offering an alternative standpoint and I find holes in much of what you're saying, but you come across as so rude that I just can't be arsed typing them out. Work it out yourself.

Ok so this is the theory...

Despite being doctors the Mcganns overdose their daughter with sedatives so they can go and party.

During the evening they check on their children only to find they have killed Madeline. The emotion of this horrifying situation is quickly suppressed and a plot is hatched to cover it up. They do this so they don't loose their jobs...something that would naturally be at the forefront of their minds right about then. They get their daughters body and stuff it in the boot of their car before announcing to all their friends in the restaurant Maddie has been abducted.

They spin an elaborate web of lies to the Portuguese police and embark upon a frenzied media campaign to throw a red-herring to the rest of the world. While all this is going on they secretly dispose of the body in a makeshift grave in the hills of a foreign country....denying their daughter a proper and respectful funeral is an insignificant detail for the murderous duo.

They lie to everyone they know...including all their friends, parents and the rest of the family...a lie they will continue to tell for the rest of their lives. Of course the endless pain and suffering this causes their parents etc is a minor detail. Despite being deeply religious they have no qualms about travelling to the Vatican and duping the Pope....we've got to make this look realistic they think and of course God will understand come judgement day.

Rather than ask for a bit of privacy at this difficult time they decide to constantly push the media campaign forward, Gerry McGann writes a daily blog as an extra convincer, and they also secure a campaign fund in excess of £1m...happy days, we're gonna get some cash out of this.



Of course the alternative would be...find your daughter dead, be devastated, phone the police/ambulance.

Anyone who believes the first scenario is living in cloud cuckoo land.

And suddenly we go from....
Posted by: BigTomatoes
to comparisons with Ian Huntley. It is a fact that as people we are drawn more to the sensational than to the mundane. It is somehow more convincing. But the truth of the matter is that the Portuguese police are clearly incompetent and are looking to implode the investigation because they don't know what to do next.

I think it would be a good idea to support this family through what must be a tremendously gruelling ordeal.

Very  well put and exactly how I see it. However there's a lot of logic and fact in your post, in the UK we read 'The Sun' and prefer your more sensation-driven version, low on informed-reasoning and high on front-page impact. Remember that blood was found supposedly in the car, so we need to write in a bit about how her mother either stabbed her daughter or dismembered her body.
I was pretty worried yesterday that this would just be the final crushing blow for the parents, who have just gone through this horrific ordeal of losing their daughter just to have this thrown at them (remember in the UK we have 'innocent until proven guilty'? There's not even evidence that Madeleine is dead). However I saw Kate McCann in an interview saying that once she'd gone through the pain of the loss, nothing could really faze her. They'll likely just be really pissed off at the distraction it's causing to the search.

They are a couple of tits and desrve all they get IMHO.

Vince

what a peculiar and distasteful post!

please feel free to elaborate and maybe back up your opinion with facts?

Ok, the only real facts we know are that two supposedly educated individuals were in a foreign country and thought it was appropriate to leave their children, the oldest of which was 4 unattended in a holiday apartment whilst checking on them every half an hour while they jollyed it up in a tapas bar accross the way. Anything could have happened while they were out i.e Maddy could have woke up and played with matches etc. Just plain stupidity what they done. Distateful post by me maybe but as a father, my feeling is they deserve all they get.

We did all these types of posts about four months ago.

Perhaps you should be sympathising with their loss rather than rejoicing.  I too am a father, by no means perfect. There but for the grace of God..........

Do you let your children walk to school celtic?

If you do then please be aware that they could slip on jam on the way there.

yeah this is a sorry painful saga

this post has no point


personally i think the portugese authorities want the McCanns out of their country and whenor if it comes to court and they are aquitted,they wont exactly feel welcome and leave///

Surely, because they were doctors - they would feel as though there was no risk because they thought they knew what they were doing.


Not merely the jobs, but losing their whole lives (children, careers, going to prison). When people are in extreme situations, you'd be surprised at the things they'll do.


'murderous duo'?? They're not Brady and Hindley. Once the lie has been started, it would have been impossible to stop it. At which point do you think they could have come out and said 'actually we killed her by mistake - sorry for all the fuss we've caused'.


Yes, compared to the alternative, it would be a minor detail. The whole tour/meeting Pope thing just followed on naturally from the initial lie.


The campaign fund was primarily driven by other family members/friends - not the McCanns themselves.


...go to prison, lose children, end careers, life ruined.


Don't think so - logically it makes sense. The major hole in it for me is the logistics of getting rid of the body.

so basically what your saying is that any parent that leaves there kid unattended for whatever amount of time deserves there child to be abducted ad/or murdered or to have a fatal accident?

what they done was wrong but not deserving of the consequences and if you feel that by doing one you deserve the other you must have psychological issues yourself.

While I feel awfully sorry for her family and all connected, personnaly there is nothing I can do help, and dont feel the need or wish to see this story everytime i open the newspaper or turn on the TV. If and when she is found, either alive or dead my blood will probably run cold and i'll feel emotional, but at the moment, seeing this day in day out just bores me.

My daughter doesnt walk to schooll, she is 9 and not old enough imo. I am far from a perfect parent, I only have access to my daughter 2 or 3 times aweek, but have been in situations where i could have left her asleep at home cos i needed things from outside but would have been terrified to leave her unattended. Why has my post got no point as stated? I have only recently joined this topic. It MY opinion that they have got what they deserve. Not rejoicing just stating my opinion.

Scenario: you are watching television in your front room. Your daughter is asleep upstairs. Do you lock front and back doors?

fear.

No i wouldnt lock the doors if my daughter was asleep up stairs. =...........

Yep.

If Madeline was abducted it reflects badly on Portugal as a tourist destination as it implys your child could be abducted if you go on holiday there.  If the parents did it there is no stain on on the Portugese tourist industry.  They will have to leave after this.  Having said that I allways knew they would get around to interrogating the parents in this case (as they should).  In this country the parents would have been thoroughly investigated by now.  The Police have to investigate all possibilities and unfortunately it is often the parents who are responsible not a random stranger.

Personally I don't think the parents did it.  I don't believe it would have been possible for them to move a decomposing body with all the media attention around them.  

Then would you "deserve everything you get"?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/child/story/0,,1675047,00.html

Would you describe this outcome as 'unusual' for someone who left their child alone like this? If so, how much more unusual was it from the way the McCann's left Madeleine? Madeleine was left in a locked apartment just across the way, with regular checks. She was little more at risk than the girl in the link. Could have happened to you. So would you deserve all you get for not locking the doors/keeping an armed patrol?

I dont see the relevance, firstly she wasnt upstairs, she was in a ground floor bathroom, presumably near a back door? She wasnt willingly left alone in a house / apartment, she was with her mother, she was unlucky that she was attacked. People who are asleep in their house at night with the doors locked that get burgled are unlucky, people that go out and leave the doors open for burglars to get in get what they deserve. U cant keep an eye on your child 24 hours a day, its impossible, but you can minimse the risk they face by not putting them in situations like Gerry & Kate McCann did.

Getting your locked apartment broken into and your child abducted is, by comparison, an everyday run-of-the-mill situation, is it?
When the McCann's are blamed for this outcome I think it is often a result of outcome-guided thinking rather than an appraisal of the scenario they encountered at the time. If you were sitting having dinner with them would you say 'best go check she isn't being abducted'?

OMG has the mental age of this forum gone to the preschool level, Bickering and one upmanship gets you no where people.

As for the McCanns,  Were they wrong to leave the children alone,  simple answer yes.

Did they deserve to have a child kidnapped/ disappear/ snatched, No

Would this have happened if they had been with their children as opposed to having a night out, probably not.

DO they deserve what they are going through, i.e anguish over a lost daughter, no they dont deserve that, should they face the legal consequences of leaving children unattended?  I say yes.

I think the facts are the door wasnt locked.

Do you have children? What you do what they done?

Its not just the fact that she was abducted, i agree that that is a highly unlikely scenario but as i stated earlier, anything could have happened whilst the 3 kids were left alone in that apartment. All i'm saying that in my opinion (right or wrong) they shouldnt have put their children in that situation. I think they got what they deserve (if in fact thats what happened)

If you play a poker competion and consider your chips as children, would you put all your chips at risk with  2c 7s knowing that someone could be waiting there with  Ac Ahrt. U have put them at unnecessary risk and got what you deserved by your actions.

I wouldn't gamble with my kids, they'd probably tell their mom and i'd be in serious trouble then.

First and foremost. Andrew T do you really believe the things you are saying?

You find that you have killed your daughter and your first instinctive reaction is to protect yourself from a ruined life. Have you not just ruined your life?...and as such aren't any additional consequences insignificant? In such an emotional state to believe that the parents primary thought was to protect themselves from future financial hardship and a brief spell in prison is quite simply absurd.

But maybe there are some who believe this theory. They also believe the Loch Ness monster exists, the Americans were responsible for 9/11, the Queen killed Diana, E.T. was a true story, and Dr. Doolittle really could talk to the animals.

Secondly, the point Feris makes about the unsupervised girl in the bath is an excellent one. Does the mother deserve these consequences? Or is the distance of 20 yards unsupervised within the parameters of good parenting. What if she was actually outside hanging out the washing...does she now step outside those parameters? Is she now a neglectful ogre who brought this on herself. No? Well the McGanns were 50 yards from their sleeping children in full view of the apartment. Who has the god-given right to draw the line and say this makes them deserving of the consequences? I think you should be ashamed if you do.

Why don't we all live our lives to the beat of the paedophiles drum. They control us. The criminal minority are starting to dictate our every movement. Why cut the umbilical cord at all at birth...surely it is safer not to.

were 50 yards from their sleeping children in full view of the apartment.


If the apartment was in full view then how did they not see someone break in and take maddy?

I do not think it is that hard to imagine the utter devastation wreaked on the McCann's by this incident and I would not wish that on anyone, no matter what they had done.
I would not have done what they did either. But I do not think they are *to blame* for what happened. Child abductions are extremely rare. For their actions to have had a reasonable element of culpability with regard to the outcome, the possibility of child abduction would have to be ignored by them where in fact it was a reasonable threat. It is not a reasonable threat. The chances are one in several million. The chances of an accident happening to an (*unattended*) child in a bath are far far greater.
The fact that this did happen in the McCann's case does not overrule the fact that it was always extremely unlikely to happen.

Every situation that happens there is someone that should take the blame with the exception of something that has happened by accident. They didnt leave their children in that apartment by accident therefore this situation has to have someone to blame. So who is to blame if the parents aren't? The children for wanting to go to sleep and not wanting to go the tapas bar?

Using the poker analogy....

When you put your chips in with  Ad  Ac you risk them! The alternative is to not play poker at all and live life as a secluded hermit wrapped in cotton wool. Do you think for one second..."I wont gamble with aces in case some poker deviant calls with 7-2 and outdraws me." 

No...but you think this is how the McGanns should have thought.

The person who took her is the one to blame. The parents appear to be 'guilty' of some neglect. It is the severity of this neglect that people seem to be arguing about.

On more recent developments, I find it almost impossible to believe that the parents could dispose of a body whilst in the full glare of the media spotlight.

Not at all mantis i agree you cant wrap children up in cotton wool, my daughter goes to school, that involves a certain risk, she plays out with her friends where she lives with her mum & where she lives with me, thats a certain risk. But she is never left alone at home and both me & her mum live in quiet cul de sacs. If i lived on a busy main road she wouldnt be allowed to play on that road as it increases the risk of something happening to her. Why take unnecessary risks?

Guilty of some neglect/ to blame for the situation..... same difference??????????

Yes the McGanns are clearly to blame for the existence of criminal deviants. In fact having a bite to eat a few yards away is pretty much the same as dropping the kids off in the town centre in the middle of the night. I mean surely they must be aware of the risk of kidnap while on holiday...it must say something about this in the brochure.

celtic you have assessed the risks of your individual situation and that's a good thing. But if something happened to your daughter while playing with her friends some complete stranger would have the right to question the boundaries you set and say why take those sort of risks and accuse you of neglect. Is that ok? To suggest that the McGanns boundaries are asking for trouble is thoroughly unreasonable.

Ok mantis thats a good post and you have made some good points etc regarding boundaries.

But is leaving 3 children aged 3 and under generally acceptable? it wasnt a few yards away,  i believe 50+ and in full view of the apartment (this couldnt be the case) as they would have seen any intruder. I jst think it was a complete lack of common sense on their part, stupidity in fact.

Did i accuse of you saying that?

its not bickering billy its debating and im sorry if im responding to a post where another forum users states that a mother and father deserve to have there daughter abducted/murdered.

FFS learn to use the quote function properly, how can i be expected to follow the thead when I cant work out who said what ;)

Aren't we taught as poker players not to be results orientated?

There are neglected children in this world and the McGanns kids simply don't come into that category. I believe they refused the free baby-sitter because they felt leaving their kids with a stranger was more of a risk. If they chose the baby-sitter option and the baby-sitter killed Madeline would they not regret that particular choice? You may scoff at that risk...but if that did happen people would be quick to comment..."I never leave my kids with strangers"

I've never been in the situation that the McCanns may have found themselves in if the new theory is correct. I really don't think that you can categorically rule out a particular course of action that people who find themselves in such a situation would take.

People in very extreme situations sometimes do very extreme things, things which even they may have thought unthinkable. People panic, they don't think straight, they do strange things.

It's very easy for us to sit here and say 'Yes, well if I'd killed my daughter I know exactly what I'd do', but until we find ourselves faced with that dilemma, we just don't know how we'd react.

i dont think anyone disagrees with you on where to proportion the blame its the issue of they "got what they deserve" that makes me uncomfortable with your post.

il state again "no one deserves there child to be abducted/murdered for the actions or lack of action the mcanns took"

Yes Andrew I think that is a reasonable point but to actually say that is your particular view of the situation is a thoroughly poor assessment of humanity imo. I don't think it is impossible...but I wont even entertain it until proven beyond doubt.

Its unfair to say they got what they deserved, that is callous thinking for the little girl. One thing they are guilty of, and no-one can deny is neglect. They neglected their duties as parents, they where there to protect their children, they failed in that duty and now Maddy has paid the ultimate price, not the parents. They will never pay the same price as that little girl. They should be prosecuted for neglect in their duties.

I know people will say they are paying now, and always will be, but they are only suffering a bit compared to what has happened to that girl. They should go through the justice system for their failings to protect their child. It was 300 yards (walking distance) from where they where, that means if it is okay to do that, we will have all sorts of people saying lets go the pub love, the kids are in bed, and its only 200 yards.

You should protect your children at all times.  

The McCanns are not represenatives of humanity as a whole - this is an isolated incident. I'm sure most people don't cover up the killing of their child.

funny that someone should say "they neglected their child" and that "there is always someone to blame in every situation"..what a load of bollox.
You leave your child to sleep alone while you go get something to eat nearby, nearby enough so that if the child would wake up and can't sleep she can call out and you'd probably hear her (that's what's being claimed so let's assume that that's actually correct). This is not bad parenting, this is something every parent does and has done for centuries and it has never been called bad parenting. There was just someone who stole their child (not really an everyday occurance no matter what the tabloids might want to make you believe). this is of course assuming that's what happened.

As for "there's always someone to blame" well, that justabout sums up what's wrong in todays society. Used to be a "shit happens" sort of thing, these days there's always someone who should be blamed for whatever happened. (and quite often the wrong person)

Protect them from what exactly FlyingPig? Paedophiles, kidnappers and bogeymen. If you really believe this then you should never let your children out of your sight for one second. Then your children grow up being insulated from life and lacking independence. We are blaming a loving mother for not having the foresight that her daughter could have been abducted from the holiday villa...and that is quite absurd.


And as such I am happy to put the McGanns firmly in the wider humanity subset at this time...not jump into the sensational minority camp. This is my default mentality. If people latch onto the sensational and morbid view at the drop of a hat the world will quickly become a very sorry place.

Paul,

mantis eluded to the fact that the mccanns were not to blame for someone abducted their daughter, thats why i was debating the issue of blame.

why do i have issues as you call it for saying that they got what they deserve?

Belly, there is a big difference between debating and bickering, this is blatant bickering and one-upmanship in certain cases.

Furthermore No one ever said that these people deserve to have their daughter kidnapped and murdered, Thats not what i read anyways, perhaps its how you interpreted  the text.

The facts that we all know stay the same, These parent were negligent and left their children alone, there is no way to cover that up or argue that fact, its that simple. 

They did not in many peoples opinions take reasonable measures to prevent the abduction of their child, I happen to agree with this.

As for the recent developments, its another act in this farce from the investigating authorities.


What Disturbs me most of all is that the Portuguese government is concerned how long this case will have an effect on their tourist trade.

This poor wee girl is either alive and out there in some way, or is dead and deserves the dignity of a proper funeral, this is where the focus should have been, always on the girl, but alas with over zealous reporters, sensationalist press and in compentent authorities the focus was never on her for long enough IMHO.

err i said the got what they deserved Billy ;popcorn;

Who's Madeleine?

This same topic is raging across boards all over the net and tbh I'm sick of it, the scum rags will be fucking loving it. It's like a nationwide game of Cluedo, makes for a good BB replacement eh? No-one knows all the facts, no-one knows most of the facts, no-one knows some of the facts, unless your the polis and involved in the investigation you know the sum total of fuck all, everybody is just jumping on the bandwagon, egged on by the media. There is a process to go through and this thing will play out and the cards will fall as they may but it won't be decided by the public playing Columbo or being judge and jury. This isn't an interactive episode of Murder She Wrote, it's an ongoing investigation that turned into a circus a long time agp and regardless of what happened the McCanns are getting tried by public opinion, I'm just surprised there hasn't been a phone-in vote yet.



PS I don't know who has posted above me, but in case it's mis-interpreted this is a general rant and not meant to be a response to anybody in particular.

Looking at the photo's there is no way they could hear Maddie if she woke up.
I don't believe they had anything to do with her disappearance but they did neglect their children that night and should be prosecuted for leaving them home alone.

Whilst the Mccanns deserve some punishment for their neglext i dont think Madeline deserves whatever it is she's got or is getting for her parents stupidity.

Btw regardless if it was 30 feet or 300 feet no one should ever leave their children alone, Children need protecting always, its the age we live in.


Well in that case do you think they deserve for a child to be abducted/ murdered/ defiled?  I dont believe you did, i don't think there is anyone that could think that, its a horrible thing to comprehend as of retribution they deserve this torment.

The need to be prosecuted for neglect when they come home in my opinion, they left their kids at home, alone.  Thats a crime, and there must be atonement.

Quality post unhappybhoy.

However isn't debate a good thing? it stirs interest and its good to get other peoples views! its like the poker hand analysis, u can talk about the hand u played but u cant change it!!!

spot on billy, i never said they deserved to get maddy killed, i said they deserve whatever they get, i think that was a point missed by some.

whatever anyones opinion is, one thing is for sure...MADDY DESERVED BETTER! and her brother & sister.

In this case, I'd say no and I wouldn't say it's debate I'd say it's speculation and rumour mongering but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Most of us are not debating if they are guilty or not,we are debating who was to blame etc, whether they were right, whether the got what they deserved based on what the mccanns claim happened.

its what they call mass debating, and isnt it good to have a mass debate now and then?????????????

I agree mate.  It is sad, but in terms of interest, I find it almost as boring as seeing Princess Diana's sneaky smile on my TV box every single night.  The only news story that has caught my attention this week was a baby rhino being born at Edinburgh zoo .

I that suppossed to be funny?

you're an idiot

Wow... When we go abroad why do we lock everything up, I bet their money and passports was in a safe. Anyone can generally get into any room aborad, you have no idea who has the keys for the doors. They where 300 yards away, that is 3 football pitches long away. That is some distance. There is leaving them and then leaving them and going out for a meal. When my children are in bed, I can hear footsteps upstairs, I can hear noises which would alert me to danger. They where never in any sort of distance to do this.

Would you leave your kids in bed in the house then go the pub. NO, and if you did you do not deserve kids, and would deserve to goto jail. Especially at the ages of 2 and 4. FFS, anything could of happened. Its not like they sat outside the room where they could of heard things or been alerted to someone crying. As I said earlier there is leaving them alone and leaving them alone and you are nowhere to be seen. FFS, you know the difference, nobody could ever keep their eyes on the children all the time, but so far away is absolutley disgraceful, and anyone who thinks otherwise please let me know why, why you think it is acceptable to go out have a meal a few drinks whilst your kids are in a strange room, that anyone could have the keys for, a room which is very unsafe anyways, and you are 300 yards away.

why am i an idiot bolt?

The tapas bar was 50 yards away from the room not 300 yards and each adult in the party of nine checked on the children every 10-15 minutes. This I believe is reasonable and responsible behaviour. If others believe that the McCanns are unworthy of bearing children due to the holes in this plan then fair play...you must run your homes like Nazi concentration camps. The apartment could be viewed from the outdoors dining area where these nine responsible adults ate supper.

So typical of the British public to now stretch that 50 yards to 300 yards and then liken it to going to the pub half a mile away and out of sight of home...where the dozy parents got pissed-up on cocktails and sang karaoke until the early hours.

Yes some people lock-up their valuables on holiday, but many don't. So we all think that if you don't lock things away then you DESERVE to have them stolen from you? What a crass society we have become. The reason we lock money away is because sadly thieving is quite common...abduction is less common. How horrible for hard-working families to go away on holiday and have to plan every move based on risk of abduction. Maybe hotels should build one big safe for valuables and children.

How far are we going to go in our quest for safety? What about faulty boilers on holiday that emit noxious gasses...should every parent take a testing kit to be fully responsible...should they fly at all considering the plane may crash? Dropping your kids off at school...picking them up...and not letting them out of the house ever is probably the best strategy...of course school trips are out cos who knows what might happen.

People continue to use the tube in London in defiance of the minority of terrorists...we refuse to let these people dictate to us how we should act...and yet if you look closer the criminal minority actually control how we behave in every sense.

To put the kids to bed and trap for beers into the town centre without a second thought is neglect...to dine with 7 friends 50 yards away in view of the apartment with regular 10 minute checks is a comprehensive plan that allows people to have some semblance of a life without letting the fear of a potential abductor control their movements....or their lives.

I have never said they deserved it, and the room is 300 yards away, it is 50 as the crow flies, but believe me when I tell you it is 300 yards walking distance. There is a large wall that you have to walk around to get to the room they where staying at.

Edit - 15 minutes for a child to be distressed in a room by themselves, do you think this is acceptable?

How can you live a normal life fearing your child is going to be distressed every 15 minutes?

Do you think it is irresponsible for parents to take their children on The Tube considering the threat of terror?

No... But I would not like my child to have a nightmare wake up and be distressed for 15 minutes whilst I am off having a drink. I would not leave my 4 year old in the house whilst I went to the shops which are 30 yards away. So much can happen and they cannot do anything to defend or helpe themselves apart from cry. If you are so far away you cannot hear that. It is not acceptable. It is different me having a meal in my back garden with the kids in bed upstairs, where I can hear most things, and know if they are up to anything.

I don't think its irresponsible to take a child on the tube, you are just being silly now.

Would you 3 children at the age of 2 and 4 in a room by themselves, you have no idea who has keys for the room, you cannot see the room, you cannot hear any noises from the room, and you are 300 yards away. Would you do this to your children.

I will go on the record now and say this is bad parenting, and is neglect.

I am not intentionally being silly I am merely asking where you yourself draw the line. You discount the risk of terror on the tube even though it is the No.1 target for such organisations and yet feel that the risk of abduction in a 15 minute window of opportunity is worth consideration. Having said that, isn't where you draw the line personal to you? And what gives an individual the justification to cast judgement about somebody else's line. There are people who don't travel the tube because of the risk...so they could quite rightly chastise you if something happened to your kids on the tube...and that would be ok....I say I don't think it is ok.

Irresponsible parenting is an accusation that should be levelled at those dads who bogged off as soon as their kid was born and the mums who then dragged them up without any consideration at all. This sort of parenting is chiefly responsible for the criminal element that exists in society today. Children who are not taught respect or responsibility grow up to be the ones who rob from your hotel room...it is the parents of those children who are guilty of neglect...not me for leaving my cash in a drawer.

Guys, please keep it cool.

(Oh and come and read the live updates from the GUKPT event in Plymouth - I can't resist a plug anywhere... ;))

It is a fare point, people act in different ways some are extreme others are the exact opposite, but to leave defenseless children alone for 15 minutes in a room by themselves and go for a few drinks 300 yards away, is neglect of your duties as a parent. As a parent you are 100 % responsible for your children. Especially at that age. Would you say this would be a fair reflection of most parents?

I can have my own point of view, please don't tell me the government have taken that away from me.

I have no axe to grind about anybody's method of child upbringing. Each set (or lone) parent(s) must live by and with their actions. If they treat their children with extreme protectiveness are they ruining them for later in life (independence/healthy respect of danger etc etc) if they leave them home alone (for any length of time) are they abandoning them to all sorts of dangers (External and Internal - 20 seconds is enough for an active 2 year old to get hurt). We are not Judges of their character we can only be judges of our own. We worry every single day about our children (mine are all over 16 now eldest 25 and I still worry FFS) but we have to judge every situation we find ourselves in as they are growing up with our own values. There are no defined lines or boundaries as far as children are concerned, it is up to each individual parent(s) actions to provide the love and advice to prevent horrendous events like this one happening to us.

Whatever our individual views, the parents of Maddie are in a situation that is unthinkable to any parent..

Just pray to whatever God you hold dear that you are not ever placed in that situation -- I know I do every day...

Touches peak of cap and nods in the direction of The_Duke as per sinking 20ft putt to win The Open....as to acknowledge something good just happened.

have read your original post and i apologise for taking in wrong context.

u meant thet deserve whatever they get  punishment wise, not what has happened so far.

sorry for misinterpreting

It was pure speculation from the start. the way Robert Murat got treated by the British press was nothing short of disgraceful. "Child porn found on Maddie suspect computer!" (no there wasn't) and all those sorts of headlines (Daily express for that one) were nothing but speculation and I would dare say blatant lies in an attempt to sell more newspapers. It's about time someone took the British press to court over this sort of stuff and milked them for every single penny that they are worth. The press in the UK gets away with everything but murder and it's about time the law got changed with regards to what they can and can not print..maybe them having to cough up a few million to one person who sues them would be a very good idea.

Boldie, the one thing you forgot, and probably cant have been expected to know, is that no british person conviceted of a crime outside these fair shores is ever guilty, and has always been a victim of "jonny foreigner's" arcane legal system.

most of the internet rumours, british paper stories and overall speculation originated in the portugese newspapers boldie.

I live less than 50 yards as the crow flies from my nearest pub.
Pick the correct seat and I can see my front door from the pub.
But if my missus/parents/in laws etc came round and saw me having a quick pint in there while the bairns were in bed.
They would create a lynch mob and cut my b******s off!

It was 100% neglectful parenting (what if a rapid fire broke out on the floor below for eg?)....HOWEVER!

They have already been punished more than any rapist/muderer/paedophile ever will, and god forbid will probably (I really really hope not) get worse.
So to say to prosecute them for leaving the kids is pointless, they'll already regret their actions till their last puff.

Wait, wait, hold on there. Are you saying that because they are racked with guilt, that they shouldn't be prosecuted?

It's child neglect, whether they are remoseful or not. Oh, but hoi - they're SORRY. Oh, well that's ok then, case dismissed.

Also, a drunk driver regretted having another pint, getting into his car and mowing down 3 pedestrians - PROSECUTE!!! No,no,no - wait your honour, he/she regrets ever having another pint. etc, etc. Do you get my drift?

i think it's probably more akin to driving carelessly for a second and accidently killing your child, or some stupid mistake like that anyway.

Don't forget that when you go on holiday you tend to have a slightly more casual attitude to things. I would wager that the McCanns hadn't left the kids alone for a second before...but on holiday they were not so strict with themselves and relaxed for a fatal second. Girls tend to go on holiday have a few one-night stands and generally behave in a way they wouldn't in their normal lives back home in the UK. Also the McCanns were eating with 7 friends, mostly doctors, so if their offence was so horrific as to be classed as child neglect do we not think something would have been said at the time.

It is said that Gerry McCann bumped into another mother checking on her child as he went to check on his kids. If other people you know are doing this and think it's ok it wouldn't take a massive shift in mindset to slip into similar ways. It is very easy to say what you would/wouldn't do in front of your lappy back in blighty. Has anyone ever done something stupid on holiday before?

Not with my Kids, Never, not ever would i put them at risk for an instance.

Its neglect, end of, Nuff said.

What??? This is a broad generalisation and I really dont think its true. If you have one night stands at home then you'll have them on holiday. I dont think most 'women' change who they are because of the sun.
Also I dont see how one night stands and leaving some very young children alone have anything even remotely similar going on. One night stands involve one person taking responsibility for their own actions. Leaving young children alone involves you giving up responsibility for them while you cant see them and taking responsibility for oneself.
I wasnt going to enter this debate but the comment about one night stands was the hook!  How can you even put both issues in the same paragraph?
Them being doctors doesnt shock me at all. Doctors are only human and come with a wide range of personalities (well except surgeons who are type A personalities) Some of them are so far up their own arses that they think they should not be dealt with the same as everyone else. I actually think any professional person like a doctor should set an example and on this occassion they didnt. I hope the social work look into this on their return cause they were out of order. FFS young children being left alone? How can anyone justify that in a stange country when the kids could wake. That brings me to the doping allegations. Whats the difference between joe bloggs giving the kids some sleeping medication and these doctors? The difference is that joe bloggs would be hung drawn and quartered by now but because these are doctors is okay cause they knew what they were doing? Bollox!  Doctors are not allowed to treat their own families so If its t rue and they are not both struck off, Ill be gobsmacked!

Not even remotely similar, and people get away with leaving their children all the time in this country, generally a warning from social services is all they get.

p.s. A lot of hate came through your post, suggest you try and get yourself a bj or the like  :)

I think your in the minority with your views on this Zeb, i'd like to see them investigated by social services or even prosecuted and then hopefully all these people that you say are leaving their children home alone will get the message.

I think the broad generalisation that people behave in a more relaxed way on holiday than they would do while at home is pretty accurate actually.

People are being so so results orientated with regard to these people. "I don't take my eyes of my kids for a second!" is just not a realistic view.

So if we leave the results alone for just a second. How can I put having unprotected sex with a stranger and checking on your kids 50 yards away every 15 minutes in the same paragraph? Are you serious? Which scenario carries most risk? They are both illustrations of how you can do something that is out of character and probably regret it soon after. If you get pregnant and have a termination after a one night stand the situation doesn't now affect only you or if you pick up a STD and pass it on the situation doesn't now affect only you. People who use the word "neglect" in relation to the McCann's children have absolutely no appreciation of what the subject of child neglect actually involves. Did the McCann's knowingly put their loved children in clear and present danger of abduction by doing what they did?...Did they believe that this was a likely scenario and blindly ignored the risks anyway so they could go and have a knees up? No, they had a comprehensive plan to safeguard the welfare of their kids, a plan that was accepted by the rest of the group and a plan that others in the resort were using as well. I hope nobody who comments so passionately about their heinous crime never makes a mistake in their lives...because attaining perfection in everything you ever do is a tough ask as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are thousands of parents much much worse that them, and social services do the square root of f**k all about it.

Prosecution is much more complicated than you seem to think as well.
Even when prosecution is successful, what exactly is the punishment for this? (Take into account an offender could be a single parent living on the breadline).

This is what probably happened....

GERRY: Are we going out for this meal then Kate?
KATE: I'm not sure now Gerry...maybe we should have got that free babysitter?
GERRY: Sorry Kate, but I am not letting a complete stranger look after our kids!
KATE: Well let's not go then
GERRY: Hmmmm, Well maybe you're right.

FRIENDS ARRIVE

FRIENDS: C'mon guys the table's booked for eight!
GERRY: We're not so sure now
FRIENDS: What's the problem? The bar is just there look...it's only 50 yards away. You can see the apartment from
where we're eating and the kids are fast asleep
KATE: Hmmmmm
FRIENDS: You guys are sooooooo overprotective
GERRY: You think?
FRIENDS: God yeah. What could happen? Our kids are sleeping next-door as well.
KATE: OK but we're checking them every 15 minutes
GERRY: Absolutely!!

This scenario could happen to any of us given the right circumstances and as such giving this couple a little bit of empathy is the right thing to do as far as I'm concerned. My god, this decision is going to be such a heavy cross to bear for the rest of their lives...I for one feel very very sorry for them. But the way some people are talking and banding about scurrilous accusations of neglect is so ott. You would think the scenario went something like this...

GERRY: You drugged the kids yet Kate?
KATE: Yep, double dose as well...just so the little buggers are out cold!
GERRY: Sweet...I'm feelin' hot tonight babe
KATE: Taxi's here Gerry lets do one

AT NIGHTCLUB IN TOWN CENTRE - Kate is knocking back slammers at the bar while Gerry cuts some moves on the dancefloor

FRIENDS: Haven't left the kids have you Kate?
KATE: Bugger the kidssssh!!
FRIENDS: What about the kids Gerry?
GERRY: What kids? Check out my moonwalkin...yeah baby!!

Have a little understanding & compassion will you folks.

The press in the UK gets a hard time (justifiably), but have you ever watched the 'Permanews' channels, like SkyNews? OMG.
Firstly, everything is 'Breaking News' (important for viewing figures). Breaking News: McCanns leave house. Breaking News: McCanns step on plane. Newspapers need decent headlines, but these channels need mindblowing news 24/7. They pump even the tiniest tidbits of possible info into huge stories, who cares about the distortion. Witness their reporting of yesterday's 'news' that DNA was found in the car boot. ""Sky sources say that scientists have found a full DNA match to Madeleine in the boot of a car hired by Kate and Gerry McCann after their daughter went missing.

"Police say it is the most damning evidence that has been returned by the tests," Sky's Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said.""

(Notice how this is always 'Sky sources'. Seldom an official statement).

Next day (today), official statement:

The national director of the force handling the investigation said test results did not provide the same precision as had been reported.

Alipio Ribeiro, national director of the investigative Policia Judiciaria (PJ) told Portuguese state broadcaster RTP: "We can't say with certainty whether it was the blood of person A or person B.

"They help guide us in our investigation but not with the mathematical precision some people are saying."

mantis, Are you off your ROCKER?  What a load of Bollocks!

The Mccanns are Guilty of neglect, regardles if their friends pressured them in to leaving the dids as you put it, Its neglect, pure and simple.

As for compassion and empathy, i empathise over the loss of a child its a horrific thing to happen to a parent, but they are directly responsible for their current situation, there is no arguing that point, so please dont try.

I have no compassion for people that can neglect their children, I personaly hope that they have learned from this horrific mistake, and i expect full lawful retribution from the british authoritories in due course.

neglect is neglect, regardless if it came from peer pressure, or bad judgment, It must carry a punishment.

what punishment should they get?

Whatever the punishment is that fits the crime, if thats jail time so be it, If i had my way i would have a very harsh punishment in mind, but thats not for the forum.

As a parent i find this a very emotive subject, I feel sick when i think of the children left alone, IMHO you fail as a parent when you abandon your child / children to go frolic in a bar with friends, Even more so when you have options to have your children cared for by a vetted trained professional.

like  Beverly Allitt  ?

what do you think about the granny who got spliffed up, had some wine and let a dangerous dog into the house. Is that worse? cos she got no punishment at all. (apart from the guilt of course but the McCanns must obv feel that too)

Not everyone is a monster Booder, and I know i would rather take my chances with a vetted professional than abandon my children.

Thats Granny should have been punished IMHO, again its bad judgement, and getting spliffed and pissed whilst in charge of children is another form of neglect in my opinion, I know that some people will not agree with that remark, but its my opinion.

Listening to the radio yesterday, the BBC were getting slated on a phone in for giving more coverage to the issue. The decided to have an "off the cuff" text in poll to find out if they should continue, more than 60% voted for them to move on to something else. The BEEB discussed the poll and carried on.

I am sooo bored with wild speculation based on limited, probably incorrect, information.

Good job you decided to go into law and not become editor of the London Evening Standard then.

Tomorrows headline...."Found on hairbrush!"

Seriously I am making no assumptions on a case where limited fact are known.

I just get dragged into threads where I see people being so judgemental and holier than thou.
Like none of us have ever f**ked up?
Just we are lucky that the consequences have not been to awful.

Firstly...Newmanseye your attitude and language...
...may lead some to question your suitability to be in charge of children. So I take your comments with a pinch of salt.

Secondly...they are not directly responsible for the occurrence of this crime, they were the victims of crime. Let's not forget that.

Thirdly...statements like and is not indicative of empathy and compassion it is judgemental and extremist. Your views are reflective of the person you are and that is your business.

We could rake over every aspect of life to pick parent's judgement to pieces. Why would you allow your children to attend the church where priests can abuse kids? Same with the scouts. Whilst some would employ a babysitter some would be horrified at the thought.

Newmanseye you say.... which indicates you would take chances with the safety of your kids....where others would condemn that view by saying any risk at all is irresponsible.

Let me say for the record I don't think that what the McCann's did was top-drawer parenting but what I am not going to do is condemn them for this momentary lapse.

I think Mantis has the hots for Kate McCann :)

The real question, of course, is who will play her in the film? For a big budget Hollywood movie I think Cate Blanchett would be good, but if it ends up as an ITV drama then maybe Sarah Lancashire.

Thread lock: T-1 Hour.

Kate McCann ... I would.


(the above is a sexist, tasteless post by me, and does not represent the feelings and thoughts of the moderating team in any way .... although they probably would too , just dont want to admit it)

Well, maybe not ALL of the team...

cmon Ginger, admit it.........

Correct. Snoopy wouldn't dare.

A straw-poll that was taken here says that 8 out of 10 blokes would.

But most also agreed that it was probably not the best time to ask her out.

I wont continue on this thread as it seems Mantis has his view and i have mine, we will not meet a common ground and i can see a handbags match on the horizon.

All i know is I'm right!!!

In before the lock ;popcorn;

Celtic, I'd love to make BB5 but alas i have my hands full re-engaging Real life at the moment, my self imposed holiday from warcraft is in place, Its too damn addictive, so i have a very busy schedyle for the next 2 months.

Posted by: celtic
Oh dear! Am I being judgemental based on little or no evidence?....how ironic!!

just think it was below the belt. ok to express opinions on the subject every is discussing but you were directing that at Billy, and wasnt really a relevant comment to make IMO.

Fine you two (three) - PM each other or get a room.  This thread is for talking about Kate McCann - I mean Madeleine.

I cant believe some of the rubish that has been written in this thread.

People are inventing scenarios, none of which are known to be true.

These parents if innocent deserve our sympathy, but if guilty will more than deserve the condemnation which will follow.

The press has a lot to answer for in this case as much of what has been written is pure speculation, the Portugese police conduct their investigations in secrecy, so if the press are not being fed the story from the police they will invent their own.

Critisism of the portugese police is unfounded, many are talking about how poor they are when the main differences between them and our own force are A) They do not have press officers. B) Crime against children is virtually unheard of in portugal.

Facts that are known are sporadic and as yet have not been publicised in joined up writing, beware of any story which has the precursor ' Sky News understands' or 'The BBC has Heard' this is all rumour and hearsay.  I would also pay little heed to the bloggs.


And I am sorry but having the door unlocked whilst your children are in bed is not the same as leaving them alone to go to the pub, and the people who have suggested it is are "WORD EDITED by Mod."

celitc I expressed an opinion on something everyone is discussing as you quite rightly advocate and newmanseye said...

I said that language was inappropriate and that it....

I have not questioned anything or pointed the finger at anyone. The point I make...dry as it may be...is that some people with very strict standards can easily judge others with less strict standards.

If we read the posts it will help matters. I never pass judgement on people and that is why my feelings about this are relatively passionate.

By the way Kate does seem to keep herself in pretty good condition. The word "baggage" springs to mind though.

I thought they had a big enough boot on the hire car for "baggage"


(the above is yet another tasteless post by myself ;) )

Kate McCann - i wouldnt!!! she indulges in wife swapping parties with Mr McCann. I know this to be a FACT!!

Made me lol- then again i have a sick sense of humour :)

there is a joke currently doing the rounds about a car a certain french company make - but i don't think it would go down too well........

can you pm it to me please????

Post of the week....... ::)

Time til thread lock: T-30 minutes.

Kate McCann...you did?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=481168&in_page_id=1811

The most important message to come from this scenario is: just how full of BS are the british media.
Followed by: just how scared you would be to get on the wrong side of the portuguese police. "We would like to offer you a deal if you confess to the killing" "No". "Ok, you're free to go. Where's the car, that crucial piece of evidence?" "We're holding on to it" "Ok then. Obrigado".

The daily mail?

:dontask:

It was a link that came up. Trust me: I do not browse that rag.

cheers matt rotflmfao :)up

It does make me laugh:

The Daily Mail right a piece appalled at the Portuguese media's smearing of the McCann's, while the London Evening Standard, published by the same company, runs a headline that effectively says they are guilty.

Also the daily mail runs with a front-page style article about the subject knowing that if it's wrong they can say they were quoting another paper - and if they're right, they'll claim the exclusive over here.

The most important message to come from this scenario is: just how full of BS are the british media


To be honest that is the most sensible thing on the thread, the supposed evidence points to no outside involvement, the DNA stuff points to possible invovlment by the parents, nobody outside the family are real suspects and the only people that are still seriously talking about the girl still being alive are the family..........as Sherlock used to say'when you have eliminated the impossible, you are left with the probable and however unlikey its seems the probable is usually the answer'

The media from day one have followed a terrible story and painted it in such a way that even now there is a lot of 'evidence' to the contrary they are still covering it the same way. If they had arrested someone else that has this evidence against them they would have hung drawn and quatered them by now but coz the people they have painted as victims might now be guilty they refuse to acknowledge this fully.

and one other thing, does anyone know if these same papers are paying the parents for their seemingly once a week centrespreads???

post of the thread

My views on this subject have not intentionally been controversial. If anyone would care to re-read all my posts they will find that I never point an accusational finger at people or the decisions/mistakes they make in life. I do get particularly frustrated by the judgemental attitude of other people though. Usually I find judgement manifests itself from results not actions and I find this inconsistent. I never judge because I cannot say with 100% conviction that I wouldn't behave in the same manner on any given day.

I read a thread recently where a member drove their car down the motorway whilst tired. This resulted in a crash. By the grace of god nobody was injured. So because of fortune and fortune alone this person could walk away from that mistake breathing a huge sigh of relief. It can be put down as a bit of an "oops" moment, can be learnt from, and life carries on as before. The reaction from other members was kind of...you silly sausage. But what if that mistake resulted in the death of a child? Does our view now alter? And if it does are we not just chastising a person because of their own particular fortune on any given day?

Every one of us are going to go through life making mistakes that could potentially have serious consequences. The vast majority of us are going to be fortunate, realise a mistake has been made, and be able to move on enjoying life as before. The unlucky few will not have that luxury. One mistake will mean that their lives will be blighted forever with the burden of the consequences. That is just how the dice fell. And I for one will not be ready to rub salt into their wounds. People are fallible....it's what makes them human.

very good post Mantis.

Quite agree.  I'm a bit surprised that people are saying that they should be prosecuted etc for leaving their children alone.  Yeah sure, it's a bad thing to do, we know that, but they've had their daughter taken, probably murdered, the finer details of the whens, ifs and whys can be saved for now.   

I don't agree with a lot that the parents have done either, but I can't wish them anything but hope that their little girl is found.

Wonderful post, well done.

now THATS the post of the thread

Damn him and his incisive posts...pesky kids.

what was good about it? ;ifm; ;ifm; ;ifm; ;ifm; ;ifm; ;ifm; ;ifm; ;ifm; ;ifm;

agree with adam(prob first time everlol)

a great post

"big bunch of hair found"..and that turned quickly to "mystery evidence" (on the same page!)

also "Portuguese sources believe this request to be either a search warrant or an order to seize an "object". yes that's kindoff what happens when you apply for a search warrant, you're LOOKING FOR STUFF!

and this, ladies and gentlemen is why I don't like the British media...I would love to say the Daily Mail is the worst when reporting on this case but that's not even true :( all the British media (including BBC24 and Sky news) are just soo awful it's unreal.

oh Celtic and Matt...I'd better be getting a pm with that joke in it!

Ps KateMccann, I definetly wouldn't..she looks like a skinny bloodhound for crying out loud. She should really take a bit more care of herself, what they don't sell Oil of Olay or some sort of anti wrinkle cream in Portugal?

Thought it was also rather strange that noone seems to think it's a nogo to use the money from the "Maddie fund" to hire expensive lawyers to fight the MCCans extradition charges should it ever come to that If I had donated to it (which I quite obviously didn't (I'll donate my money directly to a charity that can do some good and not to some hyped up news story fund), I also didn't buy one of them armbands (as..well I'm not a girl) it would somehow seem inappropriate to me that the money would be used to stage a defense of the parents.

Not wished to post on this thread but after reading this post it made me feel sick. I do not know the truth of what went on over there and not one of us on here do either, including you Boldie. I never like to speculate or get involved in something that I have no hard evidence on.I hope to goodness these parents are totaly innocent and whomever is proven guilty gets all that they deserve,  but that is not for me to judge.
That must be one of the sickest posts I have read, the woman must is going through shear hell for Gods sake, , she really won't give a flying fk what she looks like. SICK MAN.

I got on the wrong side of the portuguese police a few years back - for a parking ticket !! I was parked outside a row of shops/cafes and we went in somewhere for breakfast. There were cars parked everywhere. of course by the time we came out, there were no cars , except for a cop car. I got in the car, ready to drive away, and the guy was at the window in a flash, basically telling me what a bad boy I was, and that there was no parking allowed in this area.

Things got interesting when he wanted to see "my papers" - the rental agreement I had was for a different car, since I was due to be changing it that day. also, I didnt have my license or passport with me. At this point he said I would need to go to the police station. I burst out laughing at him - "for a fkin parking ticket ?? - no chance". He was quite insistent, but I held firm - I told him I would go to my hotel and get my "papers" - and the followed me all the way. At my hotel room, he then said I had to pay a fine of around £150 for the parking ticket and not carrying my documents with me (apparantly a serious offence). I said ok, if he just wanted to follow me to reception, I would get the hotel manager to witness the transaction and he could also issue me with a receipt.

This guys face was almost creased up with rage - it was obvious he was wanting a payoff, but there was no way in the world he was going to get it. Mysteriously by the time we got reception, the fine had fallen to about £15 for a parking infringement.......

To think I am going back there in a couple of weeks !

The 'Maddie Fund' is not a registered charity so they can do whatever they want with it.

The last time I saw a figure raised it was over a million pounds.


Which, technically, means the McCanns could spend it on anything they wanted.

Bloody hell! Thats where Eric Cantona got to.

This threads way to serious for me, poker anyone?

I think the carboot references were sicker but each to their own. (i don't mind sick jokes btw)

Maureen,

not wanting to split hairs , but why do you hope that the parents are innocent ? Is it not enough to say that you hope that the perputrators of this crime get all they deserve ?

I get the impression that there are two distinct sides in this matter now - the people who are taking great delight in the delicious possibility that the mccanns maybe guilty , and the other side,who seem completely unwilling to believe that they could possibly be responsible for this in some way.

I haven't bothered to read all the thread incase i came across silly comments so do not know what you refer to and am not going to go back to see either, the only reason i saw this was because it was on the tops post as i logged in this am.

Laz,

Hope that the parents are innocent?..why, because if not , the best part of a nation has felt sickened for these two people, has grieved with them and felt some of the pain they must be feeling  and still will do for Maddie regardless of who is guilty. Like i said whoever did do it deserves to rot in hell but lets wait until we get it right before childish  comments  are strewn around ( what is usually a close mature forum), about a terrible loss of a child aye.
Everyone is entitled to thier opinions but i just think that when i read boldies, that was not an opinion just a heartless,  stupid,  immature comment relating to a death of an innocent child.

Liked this piece from Guardian Online:
"How will this story end? That's what makes it so grimly compelling: none of us knows. Until we do, basic justice demands that we presume the McCanns are wholly innocent. Common decency demands the same. For if they are eventually found guilty, there will be plenty of time for condemnation. But if they are innocent, to presume otherwise is to commit a second crime against people who have already suffered enough."

Damn right

to be fair Maureen, you are taking Boldies post as an isolated comment out of context. before that there's been a number of posts seeking to lighten the tone / distract / stir / whatever.  Boldies post does look a bit tasteless if it read on its own but it wasn't him that took the thread in that direction.

Well we arn't sheep, we don't have to follow others, unless  that is what floats your boat. To be fair.... So to make light of a childs death or any death for that matter you think it is right to make childish comments relating to it, just to lighten up the atmo..hmmm think not. Case closed for me.

Well Just read this thread.

IMHO The Mccanns are Victims of the Portuguese government and police.  They just wanted them out of the country.

Why should they care so much for a foregin national.

It's just a shame all the headlines  are about the parents rather than trying to find Madaline.

I don't think the parents are guilty of any form of neglect. The problem was someone out
there wanted to take a child.

And finally to make personal comments about the Mother is quite disgusting.

Regards

M


   

 

I think we all have a 'joke threshold' where we have a line behind which things are just not funny. Some people cannot be offended by anything, whereas others take offence at everything... I dont think you can win when you try and point a thread like this in a 'joke direction', someone will always be a bit disappointed...

It doesnt offend me by the way, this is just a general comment...

I completely disagree & if Madeline had been the child of a single mother from a city estate the clamour for the twins to be taken into care would have been deafening.

There is not one single shred of evidence that any abduction has taken place.

does a missing child not constitute evidence of abduction then laz?

no absolute proof that an abduction has taken place perhaps...

You could argue that it's circumstantial evidence.  She's not there, so she's missing.  One possible reason is that she's been abducted.  There are other explanations as well and they involve the poor girl not being alive.

if if if if if .............


Regards


M

Good point, well made  ::)

I agree with him now folks as he has me in the crushing grip of reason.

Are people not bored with this yet? What will be will be. If she is found then good, If she isnt then so be it and if her mum & dad killed her then justice will prevail.

The truth will out soon.

These News Of The World Headlines almost write themselves!!!

Grow up. The fact that the guy types the word Bollocks doesnot make him a bad parent - it just makes you look a wee bit silly.

Just hard the car joke.........shall I post it?

If I held off on posting the new Mr Men book cover, then you can hold off on posting the car joke.

Ban him.

Or, even better, force him to flee to Canada by boat, then telegraph ahead and ban him when he arrives.

I've deleted the post that put the "car joke" up

Have been out all day, so if this is hasty I apologise, but the joke offended me and thats enough to delete it for starters pending views from my colleagues

 rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

15 pages of speculation, many of the posts saying things like "We're sick of hearing about it now" "Why all the media hype and speculation?"

To sell more papers an increase viewing figures?

lol BREAKING NEWS ON SKY NEWS EARLIER was that the mccanns were taking there kids to a local park ffs

It was never really news. 99.999% of everyone following the story has never and will never meet the McCanns or Madeleine. Yet from the beginning, the press, on the McCann's initiative, presented the missing Maddie as if she were a niece of any one of us. Repeated showings of videos of her and daily exposure to the grieving parents forced her into the national psyche. Without wanting to seem cold, the fact is that for all the direct impact it has on our lives, or the direct effect any of us could have on the outcome, the whole story may as well be fiction. So now, having been manipulated in this way, and having read the first half of the "book", lots of people want to turn the page, but are forced to wait.
I don't have a problem really with people wanting to be speculative or curious at this stage: it is a very natural response to the way the media has manipulated us. Better rather to face up to why most of us actually watch the news: it's not to be 'informed'. It's to be *entertained*. The media knows this, and knows that if it weren't the case their readership would have long given up on them for their cavalier attitude to the 'truth' if 'truthful information' had really ever been sought by us.

16

1) You're supposed to post a picture
2) We've gone way past 16
3) You're in the wrong thread - you want http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=18969.0 (http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=18969.0)

I haven't really been following this story, but saw this on the BBC site - and it doesn't sit well with me:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6997429.stm

I thought they were doctors on paid leave.  Why do they need funding from publicity-seeking Branson?  Or maybe I'm being too harsh?

Well, like many families who have their kids kidnapped from them they don't have the money to pay for any high class lawyers they need to hire when they become suspects in the case. Richard Branson always give each and everyone whose child goes missing in suspicious circumstances 100k to help them out when they become the accused to fight any extradition battles that might be coming up. He realises that 2 parents who work as doctors can't possibly afford a lawyer as expensive as the two they have hired (three actually counting the Portuguese one)..he has funds set up for all these sorts of cases.

In other words, he's a publicity seeking media-whore (In my opinion obviously..as, should I claim he actually WAS a whore..that'd be liabel..and I'd need to get myself a lawyer if he wanted to take me to court...then again..he probably has some fund out of which he would pay for me lawyer if he thought it'd get him some decent press)

 
Finally read today that the time frame for the parents being" involved" is just an hour and a half . The girl was independently seen at 7pm and the McCanns went to dinner between  8 and 8.30. Its also confirmed they didn't have a hire car at that time. So just where did they hide a body, for many days...and then move it 25 days later??

Publicity or not I suppose Branson believes they are innocent,and wants to help.

Why do they need funding from publicity-seeking Branson?

LOL I think you Kin and Boldie should meet at the Pub and have a good old Bitchy chinwag

Who knows you may fall in love with a Jimmy Somerville lookalike .

Regards

M


 

Ah..one can only dream :)

lol

Regards


M