Missing Madeleine

[brummieboy]

funny that someone should say "they neglected their child" and that "there is always someone to blame in every situation"..what a load of bollox.
You leave your child to sleep alone while you go get something to eat nearby, nearby enough so that if the child would wake up and can't sleep she can call out and you'd probably hear her (that's what's being claimed so let's assume that that's actually correct). This is not bad parenting, this is something every parent does and has done for centuries and it has never been called bad parenting. There was just someone who stole their child (not really an everyday occurance no matter what the tabloids might want to make you believe). this is of course assuming that's what happened.

As for "there's always someone to blame" well, that justabout sums up what's wrong in todays society. Used to be a "shit happens" sort of thing, these days there's always someone who should be blamed for whatever happened. (and quite often the wrong person)

Looking at the photo's there is no way they could hear Maddie if she woke up.
I don't believe they had anything to do with her disappearance but they did neglect their children that night and should be prosecuted for leaving them home alone.

[Newmanseye]

Paul,

mantis eluded to the fact that the mccanns were not to blame for someone abducted their daughter, thats why i was debating the issue of blame.

why do i have issues as you call it for saying that they got what they deserve?

Whilst the Mccanns deserve some punishment for their neglext i dont think Madeline deserves whatever it is she's got or is getting for her parents stupidity.

Btw regardless if it was 30 feet or 300 feet no one should ever leave their children alone, Children need protecting always, its the age we live in.

err i said the got what they deserved Billy

Well in that case do you think they deserve for a child to be abducted/ murdered/ defiled?  I dont believe you did, i don't think there is anyone that could think that, its a horrible thing to comprehend as of retribution they deserve this torment.

The need to be prosecuted for neglect when they come home in my opinion, they left their kids at home, alone.  Thats a crime, and there must be atonement.

[celtic]

Quality post unhappybhoy.

However isn't debate a good thing? it stirs interest and its good to get other peoples views! its like the poker hand analysis, u can talk about the hand u played but u cant change it!!!

[celtic]

spot on billy, i never said they deserved to get maddy killed, i said they deserve whatever they get, i think that was a point missed by some.

whatever anyones opinion is, one thing is for sure...MADDY DESERVED BETTER! and her brother & sister.

[happybhoy]

However isn't debate a good thing?

In this case, I'd say no and I wouldn't say it's debate I'd say it's speculation and rumour mongering but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[celtic]

Most of us are not debating if they are guilty or not,we are debating who was to blame etc, whether they were right, whether the got what they deserved based on what the mccanns claim happened.

its what they call mass debating, and isnt it good to have a mass debate now and then?

[Sark79]

While I feel awfully sorry for her family and all connected, personnaly there is nothing I can do help, and dont feel the need or wish to see this story everytime i open the newspaper or turn on the TV. If and when she is found, either alive or dead my blood will probably run cold and i'll feel emotional, but at the moment, seeing this day in day out just bores me.

I agree mate.  It is sad, but in terms of interest, I find it almost as boring as seeing Princess Diana's sneaky smile on my TV box every single night.  The only news story that has caught my attention this week was a baby rhino being born at Edinburgh zoo .

[bolt pp]

Most of us are not debating if they are guilty or not,we are debating who was to blame etc, whether they were right, whether the got what they deserved based on what the mccanns claim happened.

its what they call mass debating, and isnt it good to have a mass debate now and then?

I that suppossed to be funny?

you're an idiot

[FlyingPig]

Protect them from what exactly FlyingPig? Paedophiles, kidnappers and bogeymen. If you really believe this then you should never let your children out of your sight for one second. Then your children grow up being insulated from life and lacking independence. We are blaming a loving mother for not having the foresight that her daughter could have been abducted from the holiday villa...and that is quite absurd.

The McCanns are not represenatives of humanity as a whole - this is an isolated incident. I'm sure most people don't cover up the killing of their child.

And as such I am happy to put the McGanns firmly in the wider humanity subset at this time...not jump into the sensational minority camp. This is my default mentality. If people latch onto the sensational and morbid view at the drop of a hat the world will quickly become a very sorry place.

Wow... When we go abroad why do we lock everything up, I bet their money and passports was in a safe. Anyone can generally get into any room aborad, you have no idea who has the keys for the doors. They where 300 yards away, that is 3 football pitches long away. That is some distance. There is leaving them and then leaving them and going out for a meal. When my children are in bed, I can hear footsteps upstairs, I can hear noises which would alert me to danger. They where never in any sort of distance to do this.

Would you leave your kids in bed in the house then go the pub. NO, and if you did you do not deserve kids, and would deserve to goto jail. Especially at the ages of 2 and 4. FFS, anything could of happened. Its not like they sat outside the room where they could of heard things or been alerted to someone crying. As I said earlier there is leaving them alone and leaving them alone and you are nowhere to be seen. FFS, you know the difference, nobody could ever keep their eyes on the children all the time, but so far away is absolutley disgraceful, and anyone who thinks otherwise please let me know why, why you think it is acceptable to go out have a meal a few drinks whilst your kids are in a strange room, that anyone could have the keys for, a room which is very unsafe anyways, and you are 300 yards away.

[celtic]

Most of us are not debating if they are guilty or not,we are debating who was to blame etc, whether they were right, whether the got what they deserved based on what the mccanns claim happened.

its what they call mass debating, and isnt it good to have a mass debate now and then?

I that suppossed to be funny?

you're an idiot

why am i an idiot bolt?

[MANTIS01]

The tapas bar was 50 yards away from the room not 300 yards and each adult in the party of nine checked on the children every 10-15 minutes. This I believe is reasonable and responsible behaviour. If others believe that the McCanns are unworthy of bearing children due to the holes in this plan then fair play...you must run your homes like Nazi concentration camps. The apartment could be viewed from the outdoors dining area where these nine responsible adults ate supper.

So typical of the British public to now stretch that 50 yards to 300 yards and then liken it to going to the pub half a mile away and out of sight of home...where the dozy parents got pissed-up on cocktails and sang karaoke until the early hours.

Yes some people lock-up their valuables on holiday, but many don't. So we all think that if you don't lock things away then you DESERVE to have them stolen from you? What a crass society we have become. The reason we lock money away is because sadly thieving is quite common...abduction is less common. How horrible for hard-working families to go away on holiday and have to plan every move based on risk of abduction. Maybe hotels should build one big safe for valuables and children.

How far are we going to go in our quest for safety? What about faulty boilers on holiday that emit noxious gasses...should every parent take a testing kit to be fully responsible...should they fly at all considering the plane may crash? Dropping your kids off at school...picking them up...and not letting them out of the house ever is probably the best strategy...of course school trips are out cos who knows what might happen.

People continue to use the tube in London in defiance of the minority of terrorists...we refuse to let these people dictate to us how we should act...and yet if you look closer the criminal minority actually control how we behave in every sense.

To put the kids to bed and trap for beers into the town centre without a second thought is neglect...to dine with 7 friends 50 yards away in view of the apartment with regular 10 minute checks is a comprehensive plan that allows people to have some semblance of a life without letting the fear of a potential abductor control their movements....or their lives.

[FlyingPig]

I have never said they deserved it, and the room is 300 yards away, it is 50 as the crow flies, but believe me when I tell you it is 300 yards walking distance. There is a large wall that you have to walk around to get to the room they where staying at.

Edit - 15 minutes for a child to be distressed in a room by themselves, do you think this is acceptable?

[MANTIS01]

How can you live a normal life fearing your child is going to be distressed every 15 minutes?

Do you think it is irresponsible for parents to take their children on The Tube considering the threat of terror?

[FlyingPig]

No... But I would not like my child to have a nightmare wake up and be distressed for 15 minutes whilst I am off having a drink. I would not leave my 4 year old in the house whilst I went to the shops which are 30 yards away. So much can happen and they cannot do anything to defend or helpe themselves apart from cry. If you are so far away you cannot hear that. It is not acceptable. It is different me having a meal in my back garden with the kids in bed upstairs, where I can hear most things, and know if they are up to anything.

I don't think its irresponsible to take a child on the tube, you are just being silly now.

Would you 3 children at the age of 2 and 4 in a room by themselves, you have no idea who has keys for the room, you cannot see the room, you cannot hear any noises from the room, and you are 300 yards away. Would you do this to your children.

I will go on the record now and say this is bad parenting, and is neglect.

[MANTIS01]

I am not intentionally being silly I am merely asking where you yourself draw the line. You discount the risk of terror on the tube even though it is the No.1 target for such organisations and yet feel that the risk of abduction in a 15 minute window of opportunity is worth consideration. Having said that, isn't where you draw the line personal to you? And what gives an individual the justification to cast judgement about somebody else's line. There are people who don't travel the tube because of the risk...so they could quite rightly chastise you if something happened to your kids on the tube...and that would be ok....I say I don't think it is ok.

Irresponsible parenting is an accusation that should be levelled at those dads who bogged off as soon as their kid was born and the mums who then dragged them up without any consideration at all. This sort of parenting is chiefly responsible for the criminal element that exists in society today. Children who are not taught respect or responsibility grow up to be the ones who rob from your hotel room...it is the parents of those children who are guilty of neglect...not me for leaving my cash in a drawer.