blonde poker forum

The Amateur Poker Association & Tour (“APAT”) today announced that Season Two of its critically acclaimed tour will feature close to 70 live events

which will enable APAT’s amateur members to play with professionals for the first time.

70 live events but the majority are regional chip chucking contests - £20 buy ins with 30 minute clocks and 2500 chips?


So basically the smaller buy in tourneys at the GUKPT events?

Without meaning to sound cynical but it sounds like the APAT has become the undercard to the GUKPT, like the nationwide tour is to the PGA tour in American golf

Before I ask tighty, i am really sorry for probably sounding down on ApaT again, (sorry  :dontask:)

The sponsorship sounds great, but isn't this turning into a bigger cash cow now. All members have now got to switch over to Blue Sq. ? Another sponsorship deal next year?

Won't the ASSOCIATION suffer, with the current climate of casinos and their attitude, not hinder a universal standard, Grosvenor might conform, but the other chains certainly wont??

Sorry, just had to ask  ;carlocitrone;

70 live events but the majority are regional chip chucking contests - £20 buy ins with 30 minute clocks and 2500 chips?


So basically the smaller buy in tourneys at the GUKPT events?

Without meaning to sound cynical but it sounds like the APAT has become the undercard to the GUKPT, like the nationwide tour is to the PGA tour in American golf

it is though mate, apat is for amatuers only.gukpt is for amatuers and pro's

How will the 7pm clickfest operate please ?

Will it be emailing one's name and address, or online payment straight away ?

Before I ask tighty, i am really sorry for probably sounding down on ApaT again, (sorry  :dontask:)

The sponsorship sounds great, but isn't this turning into a bigger cash cow now. All members have now got to switch over to Blue Sq. ? Another sponsorship deal next year?

Won't the ASSOCIATION suffer, with the current climate of casinos and their attitude, not hinder a universal standard, Grosvenor might conform, but the other chains certainly wont??

Sorry, just had to ask  ;carlocitrone;

APAT is no longer strictly for amateur's only

It says that there is a £10 membership fee to play the live events, i take it this has been waived for existing members?
It looks good but it also looks very ugly, why so much going on?
Why not stick to last years format and have the added prizes within that?
You could still have the extra events but it would remain clear.
As an AMATEUR organisation why allow professionals?
Oh and what happened to the association? :)

I was not implying when i said cash cow, that members would have to repay their fees. But with the online APAT events and the live sign ups yet to register, and the fact that all your members must migrate to play, are you saying that you haven't got any affiliation deal?

That's a good deal for the players surely? 

It is exeptional, no contest. But the reason an online company sponsors is the revenue and attraction, trust me the added packages all though huge, is a drop in the ocean from the revenue the sponsors will make. Just seems that PokerStars was nearly exhausted, so lets change it to another. All online companies will be fighting to get x000's of members so I would expect another change of sponsors next year. And so on.

It is exeptional, no contest. But the reason an online company sponsors is the revenue and attraction, trust me the added packages all though huge, is a drop in the ocean from the revenue the sponsors will make. Just seems that PokerStars was nearly exhausted, so lets change it to another. All online companies will be fighting to get x000's of members so I would expect another change of sponsors next year. And so on.

Well if changing sponsors gets a better deal for players,why not do it?

When does the season start?

I'll definetly be signing up this season :)

I think the effort put in and results achieved by APAT and its organisers for season 2 is outstanding and will benifit most members. Obviously changes often do not suit everyone and i am sure that any constructive criticism or views expressing concerns will be heard and responded to in APAT's usual positive manner.
For me the change from Pokerstars to Blue Square appears a positive one and will give added value in many areas.

The regional qualifier system will introduce a more cost effective local entry into the National Championship. The possible challenge here is that the 11 casinos do not serve all areas of the UK effectively, Scotland being a large area for only one casino? But i am sure that more venues will come on board as the season/seasons progress. Although the 2,500 chips and 30 minute blinds are not the usual APAT format, they are practical for a one day regional qualifier.
Having the regional qualifiers on the same day in each region will restrict the possible extra regional points scoring in say the Southern region where 4 casinos are available.

Limiting the individual points scoring to twenty events with only 5 live ensures that players cannot dominate the points from specialising in live or online, a mix of results will be required to win.

The addition of events like the WCOAP in London, the APAT Forum Challenge, the APAT International Team Challenge all add value and interest to current and future APAT members.

Introducing the professional membership is interesting and will create a healthy debate from current APAT members, perhaps some current members already qualify for this new position already?

Apat is growing bigger and stronger under good management and along with the members elected representatives will raise the bar for amateur poker players everywhere.

  

Does this mean that I get to play?

Bloody foreigners... ;D

Does this mean that I get to play?

I can't find Monday's satellite on BSq's site, is it not there yet or am I being techno-duncy again ?

I can't find Monday's satellite on BSq's site, is it not there yet or am I being techno-duncy again ?

are you saying that you haven't got any affiliation deal?

no its not there yet.

It will be in good time.

Hopefully

Ugly was maybe not the best word but it is very muddy, so much there i was wondering why?
Why not just keep the existing format with extra events?

no its not there yet.

It will be in good time.

Hopefully

Like Robert asked..when does season two start? No point in me signing up this season, ya see?

1st event in October

Unlike Season 1, dates and venues etc will be laid out in advance

no its not there yet.

It will be in good time.

Hopefully

That is correct.  There is absolutely no affiliation deal between Blue Square and APAT.  Rank, through Blue Square and Grosvenor have put their money up and committed to sponsoring APAT throughout Season Two.  I applaud them for that.  And I hope they do tremendously well from the deal.  As a result, APAT members will be able to play several tournaments at Grosvenor's finest venues free of charge throughout next year.  They will do so to APAT rules and with sensible structures and with added value prize pools. 

What a great time to be a recreational poker player. 

And can I add that Dusk Till Dawn were similarly generous in their negotiations with APAT, and they to have waived player registration fees for APAT events, and will effectively run them at a loss. 

Rank is a multi billion pound company and the people over there, and the likes of Simon Trumper and team are nobody's fools.  The appreciate that if they incentivise APAT members into their venues, then longer term they will recoup their investments through player acquisition, increased loyalty and added publicity.  And APAT has been smart enough to negotiate superb player focussed deals with these businesses. 

Now here is the thing.  What could APAT achieve for players as a whole, if players joined APAT en bloc?  The answer, within reason - almost anything.  APAT is a conduit to pull the players together and negotiate with the casinos in a professonal and reasonable way.  We have something to offer them, and they have something to offer us also.  I laid this vision out twelve months ago and to be fair one or two 'friends of APAT' laughed us out of court.  Well, one year on, APAT are proven do'ers and our members are benefiting.  To jump on the bandwagon I would suggest everyone joins up and lets see what we can achieve together for Season Three.

But the questioning of motives etc, is redundant now.  We know what we are doing.  Trust us, join us and the industry will become much more player focussed.

A big well done to the sponsors of season 2, especially DTD.

Membership Levels

APAT membership will be granted as follows:-

* Association Membership - free

An Association Member will be eligible to vote in Amateur Poker Association ballots and play in APAT Online Series events.

* Tour Membership - £10 per annum

A Tour Member will be eligible to eligible to vote in Amateur Poker Association ballots, play in APAT Online Series events and enter APAT live tournaments.

* Organisational Membership

An Organisational Member will be able to allocate free Tour Membership to individuals within their organisation.  Organisational membership will free to organisations and individuals who promote APAT through their websites and blogs.  

* Professional Membership

A Professional Member will be eligible to vote in Amateur Poker Association ballots and play in the APAT Masters and any additional Pro-Am event that APAT promotes.

www.apat.com/forum has the three press releases in full

the Season two schedule in full will be released after the Luton event

the Sat on Monday night is to the Luton event on Bank Holiday Weekend

Thanks

Still confusing though. Luton is part of Season one, I think, but Blue Square is involved. No bad thing, but confusing. Also need to find out how the points system operates. Lots of info needed but not readily available.

We agree Robert, is is all a bit of a mouthful in one go. We decided to release everything in one lump. & face the consequences, if we had not, the subsequent questions would have been even harder to answer. Yes, Luton is end of Season One, but our Season Two Sponsor is on Board, & all in all, it seemed the best solution, in most ways. We've all had a busy day answering questions all over the place, & PM's galore, (some of them, to me, quite abusive!), & that's partly because there is so much info to digest. But we've told all, & it should becomer more transparent as it unfolds. It IS a very big & complex deal, it must be said, & it was only ratified this week, so it's been a bit harem-scarem in truth, getting the info out in a digestible form.

My respect to Des & Tighty for all the work they've done on this is immense.

The reason i didnt join the APAT last year is because i wanted to see exactly what the association did for the amateur player - after all it was the Amateur Poker Association & Tour. Yes i agree that the events both online and live have been a success and the majority of the current members are quite happy to pay a membership fee for those events alone - but then the APT would be a more appropriate name. What steps have the Assocation taken to ensure that the Amateur player gets a better deal when it comes to playing poker in the UK? Having your own rules for your own tour is all well and good - but what good does that do the amateur player outside of the APAT?

On your site you state:


One line appears universal in all the above statements "A xxx member will be eligible to vote in Amateur Poker Association ballots" - what ballots on what subjects? How is the association going to improve poker for the amateur player in the UK?

The benefits that APAT members receive on the Tour is as a direct result of APA negotiations.  First and foremost,  poker players want to physically play the game in the right conditions and with appropriate rewards and APAT has delivered a richer experience for our members within their events.  

but what if the APAT is not keeping up with what players needed thats why we need the APA working

for over 4 years now i have be badgering cardrooms to give more notice of events so that people who travel/work can plan in advance and not spend so much on travel

this season i expected that notice wasnt going to be great due to the newness of the adventure but in the most part we got 4-5 weeks notice from when we got our seat to when we had to travel

you have said elsewhere that next season we will be getting 3.5 weeks, now if the APAT who are lobbing on our behalf are accepting this as a long term soloution cardrooms can now come back and say well if its good enough for the APA then its good enough for us
what is the APA going to do with regard to this IMHO major problem for season 3?

Before I post my main post, I'll add my 2 penneth to this....

One think that APAT could do/is now in a position to do, through its association with Rank, is offer members special offers on hotel accomodation...

Is this being followed up? (I seem to remember you saying something to me about this Des)

The new set up for season 2 appears to put me at a slight disadvantage for qualifying...but hey thats my problem for living abroad and you cannot please everybody. But on the whole everything looks rosey for apat.

Des, Rich and Tikay should be judged on their results for season one for now.

In less than a year they have:

1. Put together an extremely well structured tour for amatuer players. Every player I speak to speaks v highly of the structure, spirit and organisation of these events. I was one of the lucky few to win an EPT seat; I have gone on record as saying that I felt the APAT was the better event.

2. Given the members a forum to discuss current issues effecting the poker world.

3. Put together a sponsorship deal with the biggest name in online poker from which the members have all benefited.

All in less than a year.

Now they are at the back end of that year and things slowed down. With some organisations/personalities you may be forgiven for thinking that interest was waning, that they had lost heart. Not Des and the team. The big delay is because they were using all their connections and business savvy to broker what they see as the best deal for APAT.

What a great package.

Lets face it, this is probably one of the first (only?) things that Grosvenor & DTD are seeing eye to eye on.

Grosvenor/Blue square will get to benefit from the increased numbers of players...but at the same time APAT membership will grow and amatuer players will have a greater say. How many waifs and strays have been going down to Grosvenors for years bemoaning the poor structures??? Well now they can join APAT and make their feelings known!

The APAT voice will be useful in other ways too. Pub poker is taking off in a big way. Alot of the action is going to be unregulated. Although the game in the UK will grow massively, I feel that poker in the UK is in for a bumpy ride. The anti gambling lobby is bound to cause the poker world some problems. APAT is helping to draw players together, tighten things up and give us one voice.

The new deal gives amatuer players the best natural progression. Rather than winning a tournament and being thrust into a big international event, players will now get to play a British tournament full of British pro's. The pro-am events will also give the apat members with bigger bankrolls the experience they may be lacking prior to directly buying into the GUKPT. All invaluable experience.

As a final note, you only have to speak to Des, Tighty and Tikay to see where this is going (or not realise quite where its going as maybe the case). Not only do the guys have shrewd business minds/connections, more importantly they are passionate about the whole thing. Its Des' HOBBY for gods sake!!!! It certainly ain't a cash cow...

We've seen the results so far; we have an announcement of stellar proportions. Lets back them all the way and see where they take us, because if season 1 was good I think season 2 will be better and season 3, well...

It seems there are some very ungrateful people replying on here, with a me me me attitude. I haven't plyed any events guys but they look great, very well done on the 'deals' and a big thank you for for providing fee free poker.

as one of those that sound ungreatfull let me first clear up i have congratulated the apat team on the apat forum on achieving a great deal i have also pointed out that i am one of those sick individuals that will more than likely spend around £200 (travel hotel and food) to play in the regionals where i would be lucky to break even without finishing in the top 2 every event but not everyone is as sick as me

as a member of the APA i was hoping the assoc would take up my bug bear with cardrooms not giving enough notice for amateurs to make plans in a timely and costly fashion, in season 1 they attepmted to do so, in season 2 they have been unable too as an APA member i wish to emphasise how important it is that its not neglected in future so that other people in my postion (who arent as sick) can enjoy the benifits of the APAT and other events around the UK
remember the APA and athe APAT are 2 different things

i am sorry if i sound ungreatfull but as a member i geel i have the right to express my views as long as its done in a civil manner

Please clear something up for me:

7pm wednesday - what are my payment options? do you still only use PayPal or are there other methods?

Please clear something up for me:

7pm wednesday - what are my payment options? do you still only use PayPal or are there other methods?

yes tikay i know just point out that i might seem ungreatfull  as quoted but i am greatfull for whats been achieved just expressing my views on what could improve it

for some time now credit and debit cards have been accepted

as one of those that sound ungreatfull let me first clear up i have congratulated the apat team on the apat forum on achieving a great deal i have also pointed out that i am one of those sick individuals that will more than likely spend around £200 (travel hotel and food) to play in the regionals where i would be lucky to break even without finishing in the top 2 every event but not everyone is as sick as me

as a member of the APA i was hoping the assoc would take up my bug bear with cardrooms not giving enough notice for amateurs to make plans in a timely and costly fashion, in season 1 they attepmted to do so, in season 2 they have been unable too as an APA member i wish to emphasise how important it is that its not neglected in future so that other people in my postion (who arent as sick) can enjoy the benifits of the APAT and other events around the UK
remember the APA and athe APAT are 2 different things

i am sorry if i sound ungreatfull but as a member i geel i have the right to express my views as long as its done in a civil manner

Apologies if I'm wrong but I don't think any of the APAT team have said anyone is ungrateful - the opposite if anything.

BTW  I wonder how Tikay, Tighty, and Dessies villa's in marbella are coming on....Must ask....

Mine is being built in sight of Puerto Banus Harbour


For once and for all, I am happy to state I have never drawn a wage from APAT, have only claimed travel expenses for two events but had a hotel room provided for me at each and am a modest shareholder in the parent company

thats it.

I must say i didn't think Des's answer actually answered anything, maybe it's just me?............

I think the APAT team is doing a great job, cant wait for luton and season 2.

The only thing i have noticed is there seems to be so much new happening in season 2, maybe too much?

Im not quite sure about these regional events but will attend a few, see how they work then pass comment on them.  

I also cant wait to get into the online events which i didnt do in the first season but if i remember correctly money is being added to these in season 2 so should be some nice value, well there's quite a lot of value already with kin, bainn and geo playing in them but should be fun. Cant wait!

dont forget the world event for the season 1 finalie

The reason i didnt join the APAT last year is ........

That's odd, I could have sworn I saw you playing the APAT event in Dublin???   ;scarymoment;

That's odd, I could have sworn I saw you playing the APAT event in Dublin???   ;scarymoment;

My position is identical.

And ALL Entry Money (we do not charge reg fees) is paid out in Prize Money - every single penny. Scouts Honour.

The real truth is today, I had to go and buy a diary.....because there is SO MANY bleeding great poker events now...... I cant keep up with them all!!

 WELL DONE to APAT, GUKPT,GBPT, EPT,WSOPE, etc etc....with DTD to come!

I am an online member - as far as i was aware reading the rules of the APA this did not entitle me to buy in direct for Live APAT events. Whether that changes for season two i'm not sure but seeing as how the online tournaments have switched away from Pokerstars then chances are it doesnt matter as i probably wont play any of the online events unless the blind structure on blue square changes.

If in the future i can see that the APA is benefitting the amateur player in the UK outside of the APAT tournaments then i will consider paying an annual membership - this isnt me knocking what the APAT is doing, this is me wanting to see that i'm getting my money's worth.

And for the record Des i'm with IFM as i couldnt really make sense of your reply - ever thought of a career in politics? ;)

It is almost impossible to comment on this thread without "knocking" but i have to say your last post TK is basically saying that you have done nothing but are hoping others are going to copy us in the comps.
The question has been asked so many times now it's getting silly, the tour aside what is the association doing?

It is almost impossible to comment on this thread without "knocking" but i have to say your last post TK is basically saying that you have done nothing but are hoping others are going to copy us in the comps.
The question has been asked so many times now it's getting silly, the tour aside what is the association doing?

And for the record Des i'm with IFM as i couldnt really make sense of your reply - ever thought of a career in politics? ;)

Matt is an online member of APAT and qualified to play in Dublin via an online satellite.  Despite joning to play online, Matt is of course a member.

"you have done nothing" is out of context as you well know.
You seem to bring the tour comps into everything, yes we all know about added value, no rake, deep stacks, good environment etc. etc. but that is not what is (and has been) asked, i along with a couple of others (and many more have mentioned it via PM) are asking about the association alone!
Not the tour, forget the tour, that was a side issue to many it's the communications with casino chains i am asking about.

Matt, in addition to influencing others to follow in our footsteps in terms of events with added value for recreational players, we are also seeking to influence the largest gaming companies in the UK and Europe to be much more player focussed.  That is incredibly political and takes lots and lots of lobbying.  These companies will not be told what to do.  They need to see APAT ideas in operation and being successful.  Joking aside, of course this is an incredibly political task.

At least in this post you are being more honest by saying that so far you are still trying to make the gaming companies look at things from your point of view but they will take time to maybe look at it from a poker players point of view rather than from a casino's point of view.

But you have in effect been sponsored by Grosvenor/blue sq. So how are the other chains reacting to this? Will Gala/stanleys get involved in an association (when it comes around to it) that is sponsored by Blue Sq? Will Gala or Stanleys hold events and give GUKPT seats out etc with flyers for Blue Sq all over their cardrooms??

But you have in effect been sponsored by Grosvenor/blue sq. So how are the other chains reacting to this? Will Gala/stanleys get involved in an association (when it comes around to it) that is sponsored by Blue Sq? Will Gala or Stanleys hold events and give GUKPT seats out etc with flyers for Blue Sq all over their cardrooms??

Rich.  

The Association is not sponsored by Blue Square, APAT's own tour is.  Gala have been positive about continuing to hold APAT events and wide ranging discussions are taking place with the board of directors at Gala Casinos. You will understand that I cannot go into the specifics here, but there is a vision that APAT are working to deliver and I do not believe that any organisation has been as close to jointly engaging Grosvenor and Gala, as APAT currently is.  As mentioned above, it is very sensitive, so progress is slow and deliberate.  In the interim, where we have time, we will continue to field the odd brick from the crowd.

Regards,

Des.

In the interim, where we have time, we will continue to field the odd brick from the crowd.

The Association is not sponsored by Blue Square, APAT's own tour is.  Gala have been positive about continuing to hold APAT events and wide ranging discussions are taking place with the board of directors at Gala Casinos. You will understand that I cannot go into the specifics here, but there is a vision that APAT are working to deliver and I do not believe that any organisation has been as close to jointly engaging Grosvenor and Gala, as APAT currently is.  As mentioned above, it is very sensitive, so progress is slow and deliberate.  In the interim, where we have time, we will continue to field the odd brick from the crowd.

A professional body or professional organisation, also known as a professional association or professional society, is an organisation, usually non-profit, that exists to further a particular profession, to protect both the public interest and the interests of professionals. The balance between these two may be a matter of opinion. On the one hand, professional bodies may act to protect the public by maintaining and enforcing standards of training and ethics in their profession. On the other hand, they may also act like a cartel or a labor union (trade union) for the members of the profession, though this description is commonly rejected by the body concerned.

Amateur poker players now have a body, & a say in things, & can vote for change in APAT Elections & APAT Committees, which have been announced elsewhere.

As Des suggests, we need to be a little discrete right now

Might see me in the BB Banned house soon :)

3 please, need any ciggies brought in?

Is The Amatuer Poker Association and Tour sponsored by Blue Sq ?
Or Just the Amatuer Poker Tour ??

Have you just used the word Association as an attraction? Association has a number of meanings, but I believe the standard association being used in this manner = From Wikipedia

So as Tikay says WTF are they having their say in? Electing people? Any ballots about changing structures and rules etc or is their power limited to electing people and committees?

WHY??????? For the members sake or the casinos sake? Or for us brick throwers, that want to see things being done?

APAT ran an event in Broadway, they have now changed to move the shortstack because they think it is fairer, is this APAT's influence, I don't think so. Have APAT's members been asked if they think this is right? Have APAT members ever voted on anything like this? Did they not join up to have their say to the committe who would in turn, stress their opinion to said casino about rule, be it for or against.

FFS you paid a FIVER to play in juice free games, stop fucking ranting and just roll with it, complain if it doesnt work out at the end of season 2 but what you hope to achieve by just blabbing on?

Seasons 1 TOUR was Great
Season 2's TOUR Looks Better

NO DISPUTE

 ;frustrated;

The Title is Amatuer POKER ASSOCIATION and tour  ;grr;

I'm sure it's been said - but I think the plan is to get the tour established, and then from that position the association will have more strength.

So maybe some patience, and in time the association aspect will come to the fore?

It's been over a year Kin, and nothing has been mentioned, just a plan will do!!!!

For a plan???????

It's been over a year Kin, and nothing has been mentioned, just a plan will do!!!!

Seasons 1 TOUR was Great
Season 2's TOUR Looks Better

NO DISPUTE

 ;frustrated;

The Title is Amatuer POKER ASSOCIATION and tour  ;grr;

It's been over a year Kin, and nothing has been mentioned, just a plan will do!!!!

Kin is a Liverpool fan - every year he thinks "this is the year, we've got a plan"

By january his dreams are shattered for another 9 months ;)

Lets laughingly try a new tack, this forum has rules regarding charities, should we not apply the same rules for "associations" i.e. should any organisation taking money off members show where exactly that money went?
Or is this somehow different?

Lets laughingly try a new tack, this forum has rules regarding charities, should we not apply the same rules for "associations" i.e. should any organisation taking money off members show where exactly that money went?
Or is this somehow different?

APL is a Limited Company. Under Company Law it of course has to produce Annual accounts, which are readily avaialable (or will be within the statutory timeframe) via Companies House
...

Hasn't that already been answered?

Erm no actually, the question relates to forum rules.