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So sad.  RIP.

Inevitable unfortunately.

V Sad.

RIP

OMG. Tragic

RIP

27 forever so, so sad.

Back to black was such a powerful album for me, nearly every song on it is a classic. An amazing talent so sad, her parents must be going through hell (

27! Gonna be some big gig in the sky with that lot!

Shoulda have gone to rehab.

RIP

Honestly WTF?  :(

Really? This comes as a shock to you?

Sadly inevitable.  It always felt like a case of when, not if.

No, not really.............

Apparently the press ran with it before the parents were informed. Her dad was on a flight to NY and the Daily Mail (and probably others) already had the news up on the websites.

Guess someone couldn't do the decent thing and keep their feckin' mouth shut.

i watched an Amy Winehouse tribute act in BiBis restaurant in leeds with some mates last year. she was very good and very entertaining. i do hope she is ok.

Very very sad. I hope she has found some peace

wp Fielder-Civil

lol

Rumours are suicide so possibly a bit harsh.

This.

Not sure how it's really harsh tbh, I'm sure her mental and physical decline had a lot to do with her drug abuse, and Fielder-Civil is reported to have introduced her to crack and heroin as well as 'self-harm as a way of coping with the withdrawal symptoms.'

Been a couple of hours and no jokes yet? Bit slow out of the starting gate on this one is you ask me  ::)

I got tonnes but not sure they'd be appreciated on here :)

God forbid any of your relatives/daughters fall into the wrong crowd and get hooked on something you shouldn't. Will be nice when everyone says she got she deserved.

This is really interesting because if it was a random junkie most would probably say good riddance, but as she's a young popstar she gets a different comments.

Don't care what most people would say. Personally when someone dies of drugs so young I just think it's tragic. People do stupid things when they're young and sometimes it costs them

Very tragic and a waste of talent...however feel little sympathy with her track record and the warnings life had given her... Obv a tragic fool in the end... Feel for her dad especially as seemed a pretty down to earth guy who obv tried his best with her

She was a wonderful singer and it's very sad to lose her.

I thought she was cool, great individual style and talent. Often people with ability harbour demons or fatal weakness and it's difficult to judge if one can exist without the other.

I have to say I really don't get this point of view at all.  Firstly, as much as I loved Amy Winehouse and her music she was in a massively privileged position in terms of having access and finances to help to sort out her problems.   Very few addicts get the kind of help she could afford and their plight is much sadder imo.  Perhaps if any of you had seen people you loved completely lost to drugs then you would have a different view but the criminalisation and discrimination that drug addicts face in this country is appalling imo.

 :goodpost:

Maybe I should CHOOSE to take drugs then and hope my family pick me up afterwards? But that would be pretty selfish of me wouldn't it?

Maybe you CHOSE to take drugs to blot out the pain of your father abusing you or the death of a close relative so the family picking you up afterwards isn't really an option.  Maybe you CHOSE to take drugs as a way of self medicating mental health problems.  It is very easy to condemn peoples actions without any real understanding of the underlying social, economic and political issues that cause them.  Very few people set out to become heroin and crack addicts and the idea that it is a lifestyle choice is, frankly, laughable.

Your right, its just called being a fucking idiot.........

 ;popcorn; and this aint normally like me

Completely pointless debate thats been had before, but a massive +1 to redarmi's posts, sometimes the "no matter what's happened to you, it's down to you and what you make of life" is sometimes just wrong and ignorant.

Oh and RIP.

I think it's fairly widely accepted she didn't believe she was an addict.

Don't most addicts think that, pre going cold turkey?

I'm curious to know if there's any sympathy for smokers who die from lung cancer or drinkers who die from cirrhosis of the liver?

It was inevitable but that doesn't not make it sad etc.

Such a waste of talent.

Also, her parents I don't really feel that sorry for because they could/should have done more to change her.

5 days ago a true British hero was killed in action fighting for our country. Did you know this? Do you know his name? Do you care?
A smackhead loser dies and its all over the news and all over facebook within minutes. RIP Corporal Mark Anthony Palin from 1st Battalion The Rifles , '...We will remember them'.

It's been like this in our culture since Lady Diana died - don't know why.

Perhaps since society became, in general, so greedy we need the catharsis of large amounts of public hand wringing to show how much we 'care' - celeb deaths seem to provide the opportunity in a unique way.

Celebrity dies of an alleged drug overdose........no sympathy from me I'm afraid.  In fact, I'm quite glad this happened.....no wait a minute, glad is the wrong word, the word I'm looking for is something like hope.

I'm hopeful that maybe some young kids out there will be shocked and may see that taking drugs is bad shit.  It takes something like this to act as a wake up call to many.

The ones addicted to drugs I feel real sympathy for are the newborns who are born addicted due to scummy addict parents! 

As for the rest..........

I suspect this will forever remain a subject that the two opposing sides will forever disagree upon, yet none the less, the matter is something that lies very close to my heart and I'll interject with my two cents. Disregard it, by all means.

I was my father's youngest child and the only child of my mother. In total, from previous marriages of my father, I have two brothers and four sisters.

Three of them were living with my father and staying with his ex-wife on weekends. My mother was 26 when I was born, and the age gap between myself and the second youngest is 8 years. During that time, their mother stopped coming for them on weekends and disappeared from their life for the better part of their youth. They all dealt with this in their own way, though it was in my brother that the harm was most evident as he started misbehaving at school, smoking etc. The usual story of falling in with a bad crowd. Anyhow, many years later we also discovered he was being molested in his teenage years by the father of his best friend. I'll spare you the grisly details, but by this point I was a man grown and I felt physically sickened and I'm a hard person to shock.

So. A youth, rejected by his mother at a young age turns to the wrong people and at that age knows no better. The downward spiral begins, and worsens with molestation. By the time he had begun training to become a chef at college, he was using class A drugs. Not that it's particularly uncommon, drug use is rife in high school/college education. However, with the underlying psychological issues that he had in the back of his mind, he began to turn to harder drugs.

Ten years down the line, and he has been in and out of prison all his life. An institution that he swears makes it easier to obtain drugs than it is without. Our father died while he was incarcerated, and he was refused leave to attend the funeral. That added a further layer of guilt on top of an already troubled mind. Weak willed, perhaps. I'll concede you that much. But you're deluded if you think these people do it because it's all fun and games. Most of these individuals have troubled pasts and try to drown it out. I don't condone it, but we're all different and deal with our problems in differing ways.

What argument do you apply? Darwinism? That these people aren't fit to live, they're scum and should all die? Sure, that's great. But that's not a far step from saying if you're not blonde/blue-eyed you're diluting the gene pool, either. No broken thing is beyond repair; perhaps it'll never be the same as a whole, unbroken thing, but it is better than to leave it in broken shards.

It is something to be pitied, not scorned.

RIP Amy Winehouse, a musical genius.

Good post there, and is a shocking example, but to add to my previous post, why does it have to be drugs!  I just don't get it.  Sure, people have their own ways of drowning out painful memories/issues, but why does it have to be drugs.

Maybe I'm fortunate to have a family and friends who have never touched them, and yeah, I've had my bit of pain in my youth, my mum leaving my dad when I was 8 for example.  I dealt with it by going fishing or kicking a ball about, I just wouldn't touch them.

Guess I just got lucky.

It doesn't Matt.  For some people it is alcohol, for others they take it out by beating up their wives and kids.  Some, the mentally strong, use it as motiviation to spur them forward and become better, more successful people.  The point is that we are all different and the fact that someone uses drugs, which ultimately makes their problems a lot worse rather than better, isn't a reason for them to be villified, criminalised and discriminated against.  It is a reason to help them and offer them support to get over their addicition and then deal with the underlying issues they have.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Can you not have sympathy for both?

Red-Dog made the best post ITT, and was totally ignored.

imo.

there will be far less sympathy for Corporal Palin because our media chooses to focus on Winehouse. She even managed to knock the Norway story off top spot on some channels. Young children and war heros win the sympathy vote hands down. Any  loss of life is tragic but self inflicted is far less so

If someone dies from cirrhosis of the liver after hitting the drink hard through depression, or other circumstances, that's sad, if someone dies from cirrhosis of the liver from drinking too much for instance if it happened someone like myself, there should be no sympathy. Similarly if someone smokes 40 tabs a day due to depression or whatever else it could be, that's sad, if they just want to smoke because they like it then there should be no sympathy. The fact is, people just make assumptions without knowing anything about a person's situation and make broad sweeping statements similarly to those acca2020 made about Gipsies, imo there's no difference to his post about Gipsies and some of the posts itt. I'm not mentioning that because it's a direct relation to you Tom, more so because in both cases, although they're quite different, people are showing the same traits.

Yeah, people who drink or smoke to enjoy themselves deserve everything they get. I don't know why people do things that make them feel good?? Some right crazy feckers out there imo.

Natural selection.

The media need to be fucking put down for this story being anywhere near the Norway attacks, China train crash, US shooting etc. What a disgrace. Fucking retarded country we live in where people care about this one person who kills themselves slowly vs myriad tragedies and awful situations.

harsh but fair imo

when you moving abroad?

It depends on the individual, surely? As a few other non judgemental people have stated already, we've all got our own demons and our own method of dealing with it.

Those of us that smoke understand that we will likely pay a high price for the habit. For my own part, if I shorten my life expectancy by doing something that I enjoy then so be it. It is my choice. I would hope that people would celebrate the things that I achieved in life, or perhaps if it comes soon then mourn that the chance was never realised. But not to say "Yeah. He got what was coming to him."

Heavy drinkers and drug abusers, on the other hand, I find to be a different kettle of fish. These are the folk more likely to be harbouring psychological issues. I just find it sad that people are so quick to condemn them without thought or consideration.

Why can't the media leave ffs?

It's just the way it is TittyBean.

Amy Winehouse is simply more of story than the Norway thing and will have more people talking hence it is at least equally as important to the media.

Even on this forum there's 2 pages for the Norway tragedy and 4 pages for Amy Winehouse.

Love it or hate it Amy Winehouse is bigger news than 90+ randoms whatever the circumstances.

Good job Tittybean isn't Australian - he'd be right pissed off that they're too busy talking about a bloke winning a cycling race.

That's a fucking disgrace.

It's also why I hate the general public.

Why can't everyone be more like bopkin ffs?

Meh. The general public probably aren't that keen on you either mate.

So which do you think Bopkin will have spent more time talking about? Norway or Winehouse?

neither !!


and yup hope the gen pop don't like me rotflmfao or i'm doing something wrong!!!

The only reason this thread is longer is due to the drugs debate although totally agree regards the media, Titbean is also right though, it's insane.

This was obv what I was saying, as I said, I wouldn't expect any sympathy for any future health problems I might have because I decided to cane the drink.

[  ] Truely shocked at Mantis twisting what I said  ;dingdell;

As tragic as it is, the death of a soldier on active duty in a warzone just isn't news and a celebrity death will always be of more interest to both press and public

Yes I can, but my feelings are the same as some of the previous posts in that she surely had the financial ability and every opportunity to get cleaned up along with the social standing to have access to the best treatment. There are lots of people that don't have that.

If I wanted to respond to a point you made I would quote you so don't take it personally kid. Maybe you should smoke a little buddha to chill out a bit? Or maybe you've smoked too much and you get paranoid sometimes? My point was aimed at everyone who stands in judgement of the choices people want to make with the time that they have in life. I don't see that Amy Winehouse harmed anyone and upon balance her music prob inspired many people so I think her life was more than worthwhile. The junkie tag is never warranted when you give more than you take from life imo. I think politics, violence and guns kill many more people in this world and the subjects of Norway and Afghanistan raised itt are just two examples of that.

Seemed like it was since it was straight after my post and related to something I had said but ok, my bad.

A quote from another soldier I know-

'She's a waste of space. I deploy to Afghanistan in September for 6 months and no doubt we will lose people. What do they get ? 30 seconds on Sky News where as junkie-tits is the first thing on the news and daft fuckers falling over themselves to say how talented she was.

I won't lose sleep over someone who has been gifted a life and then throws it away !!!

Everyone feeling sorry for Amy Winehouse? Think about this. She buys some heroin, most of the heroin on the UK streets comes from Afghanistan, the money from that deal goes to the taliban, which pays for bomb parts and bullets that are aimed for a soldier. A soldier gets killed and possilbily leaves a wife/husband, kids & family behind! Tell me now that you feel sorry for the poor girl that had everything!!!!'

I reckon death at 27 is prob a very good example to set young people ref the dangers of drug use

Just to get the point across that seems to be being missed, I'm not feeling any sympathy towards Amy Winehouse, and I didn't think anyone is suggesting a soldier dying at war is the same as a celebrity dying due to heavy drug abuse so not sure why that keeps getting said. I just don't feel the need to judge her, or label her, when I never knew her. Also why on earth do people just expect someone who has a talent and gets rich from it to then become completely mentally perfect and a beacon for society, it's an idiotic way of thinking and complete lack of understanding of life imo.

 :goodpost:

I agree that Pete Doherty and his public image is a good example to support the scum line. But let's talk about more popular drug abusers in the music business instead because there are loads to choose from. Elvis Presley died after years of drug abuse at just 42 but is fondly remembered as the King of Rock & Roll. Is he scum that wasted his life? Michael Jackson died after years of drug abuse but will always be the King of Pop. Is he scum that wasted his life? Man, even Keith Richards is legendary in the rock world for the sheer scale of his drug abuse. Don't know whose business it is to dish out the scum tag and what criteria it involves really. All I know is I loved the music of Elvis, Jacko, The Stones and Winehouse and don't really care that much what they did personally. I also liked James Dean but he wasted his life speeding through the mountains in his Porsche, oh and loved INXS but Hutchence wasted his life hanging himself by accident. People do all sorts of idiot things to themselves in life. Not sure why Winehouse is singled out for the scum tag really.

+1 - I don't remember ever seeing this comparison with soldiers in Afghanistan with other people that have died.  It is as though her use of drugs means that any sympathy for her death isn't valid.  I happen to think it is sad if someone dies irrespective of how and what lives they have led.

And on the subject of soldiers they are historically some of the most frequent users of drugs during wartime. Every war there's ever been details major drug use by troops. Everyone in Vietnam was stoned out of their boxes, in WW2 they took amphetamines to keep going, pretty easy for soldiers to score in Afghanistan imo and the list goes on. I think soldiers get a pretty good press in comparison to celebs ref drug abuse really. Pretty dangerous to be off your tits with a loaded gun imo but I don't judge them as scum either. If I was fighting in those battles I'd probably get wired as well.

Are all people that take drugs scum? Or just the addicts? And what about addicts that can afford a habit and don't affect society like Amy? Scum or ok to do as she wishes?

You literally haven't read a word that the other side of this debate has said about the situation, like I said a few pages back the debate is a total waste of time. Did you even bother to read relaedgc's first post, if you did are you seriously saying you can't feel any empathy at all to his brother's situation or the many, many others who've had to deal with similar ? Not one person itt has made one excuse for Amy Winehouse, you've just made post after post going on a tirade about her specifically without even acknowledging other peoples points. Clearly you aren't the only person that thinks your way, far from it, and everyone can have there own opinion. Myself, I can't understand the logic behind yours and other's thinking.

Most tilting thread on blonde for quite a while - more strawmen than a scarecrow convention.

Makes me want to rub heroin into my eyeballs.

I don't know why when more than one bad thing happens at the same time people inevitably turn it into some sort of wierd grief competition. In normal circumstances you can pay your respects to a dead singer who had a couple of kick ass albums and move on quietly. I'll pretend that this is one of those times.

RIP Amy Winehouse

Isn't this true for us all?

Just fyi, total time = 275 seconds

Buddy, I asked whether you thought Elvis was scum. I didn't quote you or use quote marks so I didn't misquote you. That's the second time itt I've been accused of this twisting things and I can only think it's because people have suspicious minds. Anyway that's all right. It's just always on my mind that the more popular you are the more readily you are forgiven for your failings. I agree with Monda who suggests you haven't really addressed the points raised so there should be a little less conversation about soldier boys and how brilliant they all are. This is a thread for a tragic young singer who made mistakes so don't be cruel to her with any negativity imo. I can't help believing that in this wonderful world there is mostly good in everyone and now she has gone to the big boss man in the sky and her family are all shook up we should be a bit more respectful about what she achieved in life. Uh-huh, thank you very much.

Think you will find it was me that chose to use the word scum.

Read the post carefully and you will see where my sympathy lies, and it's not with celebrities who, for whatever psychological reason chose to go down that path.  Some of the poor kids don't get a chance to make a choice.

IMO Amy, like all celebrities have a degree of responsibility, you know what people are like, they see someone famous doing something, and they follow like divvy sheep.  So pathetic.

FWIW, any loss of life that could be avoided is tragic but there are far more worthy people who deserve my sympathy.

Nice work.

Can't believe you missed the rest, Boshi.

erm ............ where did i quote you?

i was posing a question on the thread in genreral.

My thoughts on this. It's a shame that many 'artists' seem to thrive in self-destructive zone, and they always have.  Baker, Joplin, Hendrix, Lynott, Cobain, and many others - and Winehouse certainly won't be the last.  I'm not a huge fan of drugs, and I've seen what they do to some people close to me.  People turn to drugs for all sorts of reasons and the nature of addiction is why it's so difficult to end the drug use, even with the help of family and friends.  It's also the family and friends who often suffer the most.

Winehouse had a few good albums, and I'm sure most people have a copy or have at least listened to 'Back to Black', seen her on TV and in the media and heard her on the radio.  That's why people feel like they know her on a certain level, and that's the fascination with celebrity.  I'm sure people are concerned with soldiers who are killed in conflicts, soldiers from both sides as well as civilians caught up in war zones - it's all tragic.  What about the millions starving across the world?  I don't see a constant daily out-pouring of sympathy or sadness for those suffering in Somalia at the moment?  We all feel for these people, but we're more interested in people we relate to, either through our interests or those who are close to us.  Terry Newton was a rugby league player who killed himself. I'm sure many on here have no idea who he is, but in the world of rugby league (and to some sports fans in general) his death was a tragic shock and 'big news'.  A WWF wrestler (or whatever it's called now) dies and it doesn't affect me at all as I don't follow it or know who the person is - but to others it's big news.

What happened in Norway was shocking in its brutality and how and where it happened.  The same feelings people felt after Dunblane, Hungerford, Columbine, etc. Of course, more people die every day in conflicts or murders throughout the world every day, but when it happens like this it's news - it's of general interest. 

Another topic that comes up in this debate is how people with mental illness are treated, both in general and also by the media.  I think it was a bad week for those who are trying to highlight mental health issues and promote understanding of how it affects (so many) people.

ha, i wasn't even going to open this thread, but when i saw how many pages it had gone up to i thought i would have a little read. Personally her death makes no difference to my life whatsoever apart from I turned the radio over this morning when they were chatting about it, just like whacko jacko's death had no impact on my life (even though i like his music), just as any other popstar/public figure's death wouldn't and as sad is it might sound even when a young soldier, airmen or sailor dies i don't give it a second thought. That's said by someone who spent the best part of a decade serving in the forces.

I must admit i thought this way of thinking was normal. Maybe i am selfish or just heartless? I clearly lack compassion for my fellow man. Don't really know, but don't see me changing any time soon, anyways Boshi makes a fair bit of sense, but Andrew T's post sums it best imo.

Don't pity the dead, pity the living"

Professor Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore, July 2011

pretty sure he was long dead by july 2011

Is this post a massive level?

A lot of people in the forces take drugs and still pass CDTs no problem, so clearly as you put it they are 'stupid' enough to take drugs but not 'stupid' enough to get caught on the CDT.. What does this make them? in my time i have known quite a few people get booted for drugs none of which have a mythical CV which has a massive red stamp saying 'Do not employ - dishonourable discharge'. In fact the MOD are not allowed to divulge the nature of a dd. Two of the 3 I stayed in touch with are doing very well in civvie street. 

I am massively pro forces and am the latest of generations of family members who have all served, unfortunately i am also a realist and see a lot of what actually goes on. Unlike the Sgts/Staffys, coming up to their 22 who have spent most their adult life on the patch and are naive to what it is like in normal society or don't notice what is going on
under their very own noses.

The funniest part of the whole thing is: '
Would love to see you try and score some drugs in Afghanistan!!!'


You can't be serious!?? Afghanistan which is now known as 'The heroin capital of the world' it is the source of 90% of the world's opium. The Afghan Army who our boys work alongside closely are notorious for smoking heroin and weed on a daily basis. Our lot are constantly seizing drugs, burning millions of pounds worth of heroin and cannabis and working alongside people who have free access to it. it has to be one of the easiest places to 'score' drugs in the world!

There have even been reports of some forces lads getting their hands on so much gear they even tried shipping some back to Brize on the hercs! lol.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11277466
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11557781
http://www.ironmountaindailynews.com/page/blogs.detail/display/354/Heroin-capital-of-the-world.html (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11277466
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11557781
http://www.ironmountaindailynews.com/page/blogs.detail/display/354/Heroin-capital-of-the-world.html)

http://wn.com/Afghan_Soldiers_Smoking_Weed_with_British_Troops (http://wn.com/Afghan_Soldiers_Smoking_Weed_with_British_Troops)

Would i want to be on the frontline with a mate completely off his box, obv not.
Do i think any less of anyone in the forces for having a crafty smoke or having an occasional dabble? not at all.
The truth is with all the latest cuts, morale in the mob etc the career, pension and so called X factor its not enough to be even bothered about losing it if you get caught.

How do you feel about women in the forces?
Homosexuals in the forces?
In 2006 the MOD were close to bringing in a policy to where if a soldier within their first 3 years of service under the age of 22 tested positive for smoking cannabis they would still be allowed to serve after undergoing disciplinary action.
Wont even start the old "would you rather work alongside the soldier who was pissed out of his skull, still drinking at 2am down the mess" or "work with the guy who smoked a joint after work and had a good 14hrs sleep" debate..

Sigh, i thought i was just typing up a couple of thoughts... turned into a massive essay.

people who have such a black and white view on drugs/addicts are either very ignorant or have lived a very sheltered life.

I've never really understood addiction cos I'm compulsive not addcitive, If i felt I was addicted to something I really feel like I could dig in and stop doing it.

I have a lot of sympathy for it though

If we're in battle, is he going to be looking at the enemy, or is he going to be looking at me and going "Ooh. He looks tasty in his uniform". And I'm not homophobic. Come round, look at my CDs. You'll see Queen, George Michael, Pet Shop Boys.

^^^^^^^^

Classic Gareth

RIP, its the shitbags hanging round these kinds of people that don't help.

Yeah 1 out of 10 for the quiz guru, wp.

Lol. As usual you are completely right in every aspect and your views are not to be waivered in the slightest. I really shouldn't reply... But i will.

Don't know where you got 20% from but we often had 100% screening with the whole camp on lockdown, the lowest i have ever witnessed was 70%, we had a period of being tested once a month for a good 6 months as an abnormal amount of people were testing positive at our place. Clearly you digested my post well.. my point was about passing a CDT not avoiding. There are numerous ways to take the test and successfully pass it. Also you would be quite surprised how quickly drugs leave the system. Urine is a terrible way of testing for drugs. GCHQ employ a hair test as it stays in your hair folicals for a minimum of 3 months. If you turn up completely bald they take it from anywhere on the body. If you have no hair on your body it is taken as an admission of guilt.  There was talk about employing this in across the 3 services but at the time they were worried too many people would fail.

Obviously you know exactly what i did in the RAF.. i wasn't at all employed as a Farsi terp and i never worked in direct support to ops... clearly you know all the dialects spoken on the border where the majority of the smuggling takes place.  I wont even bother going into my knowledge of Islamic culture.

I don't need to believe when i KNOW things. I know first hand of yanks especially who have been sent from tour becuase of misuse of illegal substances. Surely you are not so naive that you think it is contained to one nationality alone!?.

 I know there are dry tours and obv the reason for this is to stop the intake of alcohol and I also know people make homebrew and get stuff sent out to them from family/friends etc, do you also mark these people with the same brush?

Thanks for telling me what I am confused with. I'm afraid you have confused the cigarette smuggling where the culprits were convicted in feb
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12369894 with the heroin smuggling headline http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/68536,news-comment,news-politics,british-soldiers-smuggle-heroin-from-afghanistan

I would say being under the influence of alcohol is just as bad if not worse when handling a loaded weapon. Just because it is accepted doesn't make it right.

I don't really like my line in this discussion as people might get the impression I am pro drugs in the forces. Which I am massively not.  I am saying it goes on, it will be going on under your nose and to think anything else is utter madness. To think a CDT, pension or career are a good enough deterrent is laughable. The largest factor is not wanting to be out of control and putting your mate's lives in jeopardy. But someone coming back off tour or being on RnR or just on normal duty wanting to have a smoke or a line on a night out is entirely different imo.

This probs reads terrible as I am multi tabling, trying to write this, watch tv and make my tea at the same time. Sigh Octupusamonts.

my dad was in the forces for 24 years. He has never been wrong either ;)

 Ahrt

Pie charts!!

 ;tightend; ;tightend; ;tightend; ;tightend;

Sorry, will promise to read all your post next time.

He was talking to Hazza P in heaven mate

B Ho and Dumbledore ITT

incred

Breaking News:-

Elton John is going to play at Amy Winehouses funeral .........

........... his song Candle Under The Spoon will be released shortly.

[ ] will be missed

RIP

Uncle Howie

x

Rupert Murdoch has said he is touched by some of the messages people have left on Amy's phone.

Thoroughly insightful piece by Russel Brand

http://www.russellbrand.tv/2011/07/for-amy/

lol

A society as a whole can best be judged on how it treats, values, interacts, looks after those most vulnerable and in need. Understanding, tolerance and be respectful of everyone regardless of their flaws, background, past etc.

To judge and dismiss everyone with a drug problem as an havoc to society is at best simplistic at worst naive. (My Mum caused huge havoc when she couldn't stop taking her tranq's after her parents died) I would say drink was Amy's biggest problem and I bet that's what ultimately killed her, so I do hope when you make these sweeping assertion against "druggies" you attach everyone who has a drinking problem too? which I think is a bigger problem for the country as a whole.

How would you react to someone trolling a thread about military getting killed in action with "fuck um they deserved it, I hate the military" type post?

I don't understand lots of people you included but I try not to piss on your fire for the fun of it.

An interesting case to consider are soldiers who return from war and are suffering from PTSD and so turn to drink or drugs to cope.

Should they be discarded as 'addicts' or 'junkies'?

Classed as yes, none of them should be discarded though.

If they die, do they get our sympathy, or do we just reserve that for their parents?

Been having a kinda Amy Winehouse week in tribute, Back to Black & Frank in the car etc, and oh my gosh forgotten how good she truly was. She must have given strength to millions through her music as music tends to do, particularly as she wrote in times of anguish. I think that effect and the music legacy will last for a v long time. What kind of Fuckery is this? Lol at that lyric. I have even got Tears Dry on their Own as my ringtone now having bumped You're So Vain, which wasn't easy I can tell you.

I'm happy to give the media a kicking while they're down. Always camping outside to get the wired pictures after a session and only fed the public junkie pictures. She wasn't like that all the while though eg the songs she wrote, including rehab, were top drawer. And she must have worked hard to get there, been ambitious etc. But cos the public were fed only the crazy bad pictures when she dies all her quality and achievement is brushed aside. But listen to what lots of her fans say, many young, and her music was inspirational to them. Obv she wasn't a saint but not all bad either. The bastards did this with Jacko and some people see him as a pedo. Nah man Jacko isn't a pedo he's Michael Jackson and he did Thriller and moonwalked and stuff.

you have to wait 2 years on average to get help for addiction from a proper doctor on the NHS. To get meths daily and not help with mental health problems takes a few weeks...