blonde poker forum

Same gala 50/1. Same villains as before.

Villain is heavily on the tight side, but is capable of weird shit, previous HH including her jamming with A7 on AA458ddd and we tank called with flush, we have long history but not a lot of humungous pots played which weren't standard, to put it another way I tank cold4/called with KK vs her.. We're covered playing £285.

She makes it £6 UTG, weak player calls. We make it £22 OTB with  Ac Qc. We're planning on folding if she 4bets to any amount.

She calls, other guy folds.

Flop (£51.50)  Aspades Kd 4c

She donks for £25 which we don't like at all. Don't really see folding as an option at this point though as well we have BDFD and BDSD.

Turn (£101.50)  3h

Planned on folding to bets >£60 as I think she'd have AK minimum at this point, but she checks and we decide to check and go for a medium sized value bet on a safe river.

River (£101.50)  Ad

She tanks for 30 secs, small visible live tell and she bets £25. You?

75/fold

Flop... not sure why you'd not like the weak donk. When weak players take this line on Axx flops it is usually a weak hand in my experience; sometimes a worse Ace but more often a second pair hand like KQ/KJ (and occasionally just a random bluff too) - betting for no other reason than she has flopped a pair and doesn't know what else to do. I rarely see this line from weak players when they have strong hands (in fact I rarely see it from ANY player with a strong hand since it simply makes no sense to donk this flop in a 3bet pot). I'd make a small raise on the flop - small enough for villain to call with not just any Ace but also all her Kx hands. If she 3bets you can just happily fold, no big deal.

As played, I'd bet the turn for clear value. Again... whatever you think she will call with KQ/KJ etc. Usually fold if she c/r.

As played, this is reasonable advice:


Although I might prefer just jamming it in here since she is most likely never ever folding any Ace here (and she may occasionally even make some insane hero call with a King). We will lose our stack some of the time of course... but that should not trouble us since the most important thing is to get full value from weak players when we are in a situation in which they have a LOT of second best hands in their range.

I think you are seeing a few too many monsters under the bed in this hand, and this is preventing you from aggressively betting your hand for value.

BTW... what was the 'visible live tell' before she bet the river? Depending on what it was, this could of course change everything lol...

I know villain quite well so I took out Kx from her range, narrowed it to Ax+ basically. I also know she has no concept of what a donk bet means or represents and doesn't follow standard rules of checking to aggressor which led me to think her being stronger.

Visible live tell, looking down at chips, hands shaking knocked a 20 stack over, gulp.

Result -> We just called expecting to see AK honestly, she showed KK

What's villain's name?

If it's who I think, she's not as tight as you think but she does play oddly passive post-flop. For me, call flop, check turn, call river is fine against her. Expect a worse ace that she bet/folds to be the bottom of her range with this line. Feels horribly nitty and is definitely not my default line with this hand

It's tina

Thought so. The above applies then I think

This comment applies to all three hands you have posted...

If you have specific reads on your opponents and knowledge of how they play/their ranges then any general advice given by myself and others is going to be fairly redundant. For example, I gave my advice on all three hands based on my perception of the general population tendency amongst weak players in small stakes live cash games that I have experienced over the years. If you gave specific reads on any of your opponents then my advice may (or may not) have been different.

IMO there are three main learning 'areas' when posting hand histories:

1. What is the best theoretical line?
2. What is the best way to depart from theory to exploit an opponent? (this is just poker logic really)
3. What range/tendencies would you expect villain to have here? What does x line suggest that villain has? etc. (this is basically asking people to give you the benefit of their experience playing vs different types of players)

You need to have a conception of Number 3 before you can attempt Number 2.

It is pretty obvious from most of my posts on PHA that I mainly focus on 'theoretical' stuff. This is because rarely do OPs provide detailed reads in their HHs, so all we have to go on is how to play the hand best in a vacuum.

The donk is good for us, she's like never ahead when she does this.

I'd bet turn for value. If she has an A she won't fold, as players are simply biologically incapable of folding top pair at these stakes.

River is a jam. Honeybadger nailed it, you lose your stack a rare amount of the time but should get it all every time she's holding an ace, and <Ax hands aren't calling a raise anyway.

OP What range do you put Tina(Ainsworth?) on opening UTG to £6.
Personally think its a really nutted range with very few (near zero)
bluffs/weak holdings.

Certainly wouldn't class this lady as weak HONEYBADGER tight player most
definitely not weak though.

I'm with Stu, I think the turn is a clear cleat value bet, I also think folding on the turn to a £60 bet would be a mistake.

The flop, meh, I'd raise personally, but calling should be fine too - not because we're scared of her having a better hand, if she has AK then sigh we're gonna do some money in the hand guarenteed (we won't lose our stack) but i'd rather just focus on making her weaker hands PAY instead of panicking about how much we're gonna lose against the very best hands she has (remember as Stu said for every hand she has that beats us she has a handful we beat)

Example of the possible handful of hands we beat please. Super tight range to me here.

we only lose to A4/AK/44 and I dont think she checks the turn with any of these hardly ever the only hand tht beats us I can see her playing like this is A3 and you're saying she wont open A3 UTG so literally she has to have exclusively AK and surely she 4bets that SOME % of the time prelfop.

So there is  Ahrt Kh  Ahrt Kc  Ahrt Ks and I really think she'd 3bet the suited one a lot of the time

KQs KJs AJ/ATs we beat.

Basically by the turn it seems literally impossible to be beaten.

Honestly can't see us being ahead V's said Villain. Call and get shown AK. Could be AJs
really dont see it though unless the game is uber tez from her view.

so you wanna fold, getting 6-1 when we lose to hardly anything?

I wanna raise/fold here purely because of how ridiculously under-repped our hand is, and how un-believably narrow her range that beats us is + how consistent her line is with a lot of worse hands, like me personally the way she plays the hand looks a LOT more like KQ and KJ then AK or 44 but you know her way better than me so happy to accept otherwise. She's played the hand very weak though...If you're right about her that her range up tp her river bet is very strong and she is likely to fold some worse hand then calling seems like the play to me.

Folding looks completely out of the question with what is unquestionably the top of our range getting a great price.

Are you saying you wouldn't bet the turn vs her in this spot? I think checking the turn is more of a mistake than just calling the river personally (I think, could easily be persuaded otherwise)

Certainly not folding no. Happy its only £25 on the river which screams value to me
rather than a blocker bet from this player feels like the turn is trappy in this instance.

I'm pretty certain if its me and you arriving at this river and the pot is a similar size
you wouldn't bet like this think you would be willing to jam which would be sick as i can give you a far wider
range. Tina's range is not even polarized here though. OP does mention he is losing and possibly
looking tilted which also makes things a little more difficult as his image is also shot. Still can't ignore
the fact villian opened to £6 utg.

Do like the idea of raise folding river. What bet sizing do you use though?

Really interesting hand.

Have no problem with checking behind the turn here either. Really dint want to be in a massive pot
with TP/GK. In these games there so meny weak players going broke with bad hands.
Tina is not one of those players though.

we're not playing a big pot, we're going to make a single bet, and fold if she raises? It just looks to me like we have the best hand a very, very high% of the time (she 4bet AK sometimes preflop, doesnt open A4, checks the flop with 44 some and doesn't always check the turn once she'd bet with either of those hands) the line of donk flop and chk turn is much much more consistent with weaker hands, than those 3 hands we lose to.

I just don't see the points personally but I respect the fact you know this player much better than me and are very likely correct, i'm just not totally convinced about the turn or the river.


We don't have a bad hand though! we have, effectively the 3rd nuts on every street given she cant have A4/KK/AA according to yoru preflop reads (which seem right to me)


I'm not offering her any disrespect by saying she can't have a better hand than us very often in this hand, I'm just analyzing the hand!

leading on an A K high flop then checking turn and betting very small on river displays a thinnish value hand at best and no bluffs, you know her UTG opening range far better than most, would she open A8- AJ in that spot? because thats exactly what it looks like.

also flatting AQ OTF under reps our hand somewhat through dry later streets

From the sounds of it AQs should be a flat pre.

+1

Why on earth am I not squeezing pre with this? I'm in position facing standard open and super weak player who covers me just calls. I want more money in the pot.

Would agree 100% with this, I don't think it's a spot for a fold pre though? Thought 3bet/folding was the best line pre vs her. AJo+ 88+ on her range pre for me, honestly I hated her leading, I feel like I have a super good read on tina, especially live tells and bet sizing. It's hard to actually convey this into a PHA post though before it becomes tl;dr and I don't get any feedback regarding the hand.

Because you have turned a hand that plays great ip, and keeps villains range wider, into a bluff essentially. Villain as described wont continue with worse and you say is generally v tight anyway. I see a lot more reasons to just call in this spot than to 3bet no? Do you not see this by how it played out with you being afraid of her obv strong range that 3 betting in this spot is not the best option?

Not saying there arent a tonne of good spots to 3 bet AQs against many looser villlains for value tho obv. Just this one seems shitty.

Fml why am i still awake commenting on pha theads.

What about the gigantic whale sitting with £500 who doesn't know what the word fold means? I hate to use this term because tbh it's OOL for someone of my skill level to say it.

In an ideal world, she folds, he calls. I got the opposite but then we flop AK4 and I'm feeling better, THEN she leads, now I hate life.

Ok fair enough. If other player was super bad and you wanted to iso him then thats a good reason to do it. But he found the fold button in this hand? lol

Yeah fml

Fully agree in this instance. Such a non standard hand though due to Villain. Still think the hand is intriguing. What was the outcome?.

We just called, fully expecting to see AK, she slowrolled (sighed, said ffs I should of won a lot more this hand) and showed KK. But happy I didn't lose more as played.

I think all of us that know Tina think that raising flop is a bad play, and betting the turn is mehh I might bet small like 35, but I think checking is better. Vs this villain it's definitely right to be super worried when she even opens to 6x utg. This is why it's not a good spot to 3bet imo, because her 6xing utg range does not include AJ imo, so its stuff we flipping or crushed by, so I'd be calling obv because we can spike an ACE or a QUEEN and work out pretty easily if we're beat, AND we can make some nice straights and flushes of course and win a big pot. Really don't wanna have to 3b/fold such a good hand.

This hand is super villain dependant which is why I'm agreeing with the people that have played her, rather than taking my usual line of +1ing whatever Stu and lildave says.

Yes that sums things up perfectly. Posted before that Tina's turn check felt trappy. The  3h is a safe card for her and to me felt like her logic would be not to lose a customer here
by betting. Analysing the river bet just screamed value. This was the same reason for keeping the pot small on the turn with tp/gk. Just be glad it was only £25 on the river I'm making a big overbet/shoving in Villains shoe's.

Again as we have already stated its one of those spots that is super villain dependant.   

That's the crux of my confusion, she can only have nut hands but we 3bet her UTG open with AQs so presumably we were expecting her to be opening smaller pairs and lower Aces.

If you say the 3bet was a mistake pre-flop then the cautious approach down the streets becomes way more justified

Exactly