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Don't they submit the players to UEFA before the match?  Can't they put the names into a computer and see if any are illegible and then tell the team before the game?  Accepting the team-sheet with the players before the game means someone at UEFA should get a slap.

I guess the fact he played 3 minutes is largely irrelevant.  He was on the team-sheet, and 'could' have been brought on after the first minute I guess?

Ruling was 2nd leg became a walk over 3-0 to Celtic so they get through on away goals, knockout stage later team wins 4-0 first leg then sends out a bunch of 18 year olds puts on a suspended player with 2 mins left and win tie 4-3 and get to rest there squad

Doesnt matter it was three minutes or thirty three minutes they broke the rules.

Correct decision and once again proves that Uefa are not anti British despite what we are told.

Thought they were anti-English, not British? Hence the referendum in Scotland...

This is exactly why common sense should prevail otherwise any team with a 4 goal lead would be quite within their rights to do this and just take the 'fixed' penalty.

Because 'the rule' will be abused in the way illustrated if UEFA enforce it strictly and in absolute terms.  Surely you can see that?  You go 4-0 up why would you ever take the 2nd leg seriously and risk losing the game and/or risk player injuries for no reason?

Any Devils advocates about...

If we replace Legia Warsaw with Real Madrid do we expect the same ruling ?

Any Devils advocates about...

If we replace Legia Warsaw with Real Madrid do we expect the same ruling ?

Any Devils advocates about...

If we replace Legia Warsaw with Real Madrid do we expect the same ruling ?

UEFA have a duty to the paying fans, the sponsors, the TV companies, etc., to provide a product that isn't a complete farce.

Didn't say I disagree with the punishment or not.  Legia broke the rules, and should be punished in one way or another as is deemed suitable.

Doesn't detract from the fact that UEFA are incompetent.

They were competent in this case though, Legia were punished exactly as their rules specify.

They were competent in this case though, Legia were punished exactly as their rules specify.

No, they weren't competent. They let it happen in the first place.

Yes, they applied the rule correctly, but if they were adequately competent they would have a process in place to prevent this from happening and thus avoiding the negative consequences to stakeholders.

They have, there are rules Legia broke them.  You may not agree with the punishment but there is precedent for this sort of issue. 

The real farce here imo is that the Champions of respective leagues had to play against each other to allow teams not good enough from other countries to get into the "champions league"


Can't agree here. The only farce is that a team lost 6-1 and still qualify. No?

No its the Champions League not the runners up, 3rd place or 4th placed team in some overhyped league competition. 

There should be absolutely no reason why Celtic as champions of Scotland have to play 3 qualifying games to get to the group stages when other countries get slots handed out automatically. 

It is not the fault of Celtic that Legia Warsaw messed up. 

Personally I'd rather we weren't in the Champions League given how bad we played in the 2 legs and I firmly believe it has given our board a home run and they are let off scot free for a complete lack of investment and for appointing some 2-bob manager with no track record.  Football fans by and large are a fickle bunch who are able to spot fault with every other club barring their own.  I was encouraged to see some sort of mini uprising amognst the Celtic support on Wednesday Evening/Thursday Morning by fans sending back season tickets and saying listen why should I spend £500 + per season when the product is getting worse, I can pick and chose the games I go to because Rangers aren't in the league and I only buy a season ticket to gurantee Champions League tickets.  When Celtic send out their begging letters in May telling fans its renewal time they do so with the promise that funds will be spend on improving the team.  This is clearly not happening. 

A former Celtic player Darren O'Dea sent out a decnt tweet other day and it kind of summed up things for me I can remember word for word but it was something along the lines of Wanyama, Hooper, Ki, Ledley, Samaras, and possibly Foster and VVD too much quality out and not enough coming in. 

Celtic have always been more than a football club to me and to many of our fans but the heart and soul has been ripped out of it by the mercenaries in charge.  It is by sheer accident that I find myself supporting the same team as neo-liberals like Desmond, Lawell and O'Brien.  I gave my season ticket up a number of years ago for a number of reasons but mostly because I didn't agree or support the way the board were moving our club.  I know there are a few Irish boys on here and they could probably tell you more about Desmond and O'Briens doings but both of them are wrong'uns and are not the sort of people I want associated with my club. 

In the 1990's O'Brien and Desmond were implicated in clandestine payments to secure telecommunications licences from the Irish government which they sold on for vast profits.

More recently O'Brien has been showing interest in securing government contracts related to water charges and metering in the 26 Counties.

O'Brien also does his very best to avoid paying tax to the Irish treasury.

Denis O'Brien is a member of the secretive Bilderberg Group, a shadowy CIA-linked organisation which brings together world leaders and business people to discuss 'strategy' in regard to the exploitation of economic and political interests.

I also believe one of the main reasons John Reid was brought onto the Celtic board was to allow Desmond access to his little black book. 

Brother Walfrid must be spinning in his grave.

I know I have gone off in a whole new tangent but to me it's all the same.  I am not revelling in the fact that we are back in but at the same time I'm not going to call out UEFA on this one for making the correct decisions.  I know they are woeful in many areas of the game, I don't agree with this rule but the punishment given is inline with previous rulings. 

Do valetta get in every year automatically to the group stages then as well because they are champs of Malta?  Then get drilled 12-0 in every group stage game?  They have to qualify for a reason.

Are you just arguementative or genuinley lacking of some cells.  Its not UEFA's responsibility to check every squad handed into them.  FFS man get a grip. 

So UEFA are incompetant because they don't have a process in place to stop something that has pretty much never happened before in literally 1000s of their games. If this was some complicated process that was being repeatedly breached then fair enough but it simply hasn't been an issue.

its happens a few times a seasons in domestic football and happened atleast 3 times now in uefa compertition including 2x involving celtic

I won't drop to your level of ad hominem attack, you clearly are unable to see a very clear point that others have also mentioned and agreed with.

Yes, UEFA should be able to run every team sheet handed to them though a very simple system that checks a database in seconds and tells them if there are any ineligible players named. The club can then be punished if necessary, but at least the integrity of the game is maintained and it isn't rendered null and void.

You say I'm lacking brain cells by expecting UEFA to check that teams playing in their competition are abiding by their rules? Yeah that sounds like a bonkers idea to me...

Referees count the number of players on the pitch before a match. Surely that's for the teams to get right, why would the UEFA officials have to do that? Why not wait until after the match and then watch a video of it and punish any infringements retrospectively?

No it hasn't. The Sion case was completely different, they were well aware that they were playing 5 ineligible players and chose to do so anyway.  Do you have any other examples?

Yes, it has happened a number of times when it was discovered after the match. I obviously don't know how many times it's happened and not been noticed (obviously).

My point is that a system to prevent it from happening would cost peanuts to an organisation running a multi-billion pound competition. It's a "no brainer".

The same way that goal-line technology costs peanuts to help the officials ensure the right result happens and perfectly good goals aren't disallowed (or vice versa) affecting the outcome of massive games. 

welfare teams getting into the cheating lark too now

http://insidemoray.co.uk/elgin-welfare-side-cheat-shame-as-they-are-kicked-out-of-cup-competition/
Debrecen Litex Lovech  Debrecen got away with a 15,000 fine and remained in the compertition

welfare teams getting into the cheating lark too now

http://insidemoray.co.uk/elgin-welfare-side-cheat-shame-as-they-are-kicked-out-of-cup-competition/
Debrecen Litex Lovech  Debrecen got away with a 15,000 fine and remained in the compertition

Really?  Exactly the same incident? 

Debrecen fielded an ineligible player and were fined as per the rules. Legia fielded a suspended player and forfeited the game 3-0 as per the rules.

This may sound like semantics but the rules are very clear on the distinction between the two.

your now twisting it

I said that it happens that players get played that shouldn't in atleast 3 times in uefa comps that I knew of and I hadn't looked into after someone said it was the first time

its clearly not the first time, if the checks boshi had suggested were in place the 3 ties would of been processed as normal instead of being sorted out off the field

I haven't twisted anything, I can't help it if you keep posting examples that are clearly not the same as the Legia case. If you are posting something that is factually incorrect then expect to be challenged on it.

I pointed out that on at least 3 occasions in UEFA competitions uefa running checks on team sheets before a game would of solved problems which needed solving off the pitch which is what kinboshi says is a farce

it is a farce and its happening enough times now in domestic and uefa comps that a safe guard should be in place to stop it happening and turning the "uefa lets get the rich richer and lock everyone else out" league becoming more of a farce than it already is

your the only one trying to compare it to the warsaw game

I'm not against the system that you are proposing, I don't think it is needed but if they introduce it then fine no problem. The point I'm taking issue with is that you are calling UEFA incompetant in this particular case when they are clearly not.

And it hasn't happened on a number of occasions it has happened once before, believe me Celtic fans were all over this and could only come up with one other example.

It would prevent it from happening again.

As it is, they don't have the system and instead there's really no option other than to reinstate Celtic and throw Legia out. A much better solution would have been to have a simple system in place that avoided this whole scenario.

As Ray said, imagine what would have happened had it been Real Madrid who had fielded the ineligible player?

Then they would have been banned too.

So UEFA are incompetant because they don't have a process in place to stop something that has pretty much never happened before in literally 1000s of their games. If this was some complicated process that was being repeatedly breached then fair enough but it simply hasn't been an issue.

its happens a few times a seasons in domestic football and happened atleast 3 times now in uefa compertition including 2x involving celtic

now stop trying to make me me look the fool and trying to admit your wrong

You are doing a great job of that all by yourself. 

lets clear another thing up as I said with celtic on fb the other night before celtic got back in but it was known that warsaw was facing uefa

I am quite happy celtic are back in

it will help boost the Scottish co-efficient and also keep the celtic team occupied and they wont race away with league so early

I just agree with kinboshi that these things happening are stupid  and in this day an age shouldn't happen in any game in any league all the way
down to the bottom of the football pyramid

your just another green specs wearer

I have pointed out 3 examples of games where a 4th official running the details through a computer would of stopped a mess happening you guys just aint listening and trying to twist it

Scottish co-efficient is gubbed due to performances in Europe by the likes of Motherwell and Aberdeen.  St Johnstone to an extent. 

Celtic can't rescue it alone and frankly we're not good enough to do so, we could be if the neo-liberals in charge weren't so concerned about the balance sheets showing profit every year.   But it seems finance comes before performance in the eyes of Lawell. 

We can all agree these mistakes should not happen, but it's not upto UEFA to police the team sheets/squads beforehand they dish out a punishment it's upto the teams to adhere to that.   The instances are few and far between, there are far more pressing things UEFA/FIFA could be doing to make the game better for everyone concerned. 

Eh we're not the examples you have used are not comparable. 

I think uefa owe it to the paying public to ensure teams arent making these mistakes before the game goes ahead.  This game was a farce because no matter what the result was, it wouldnt stand.  People are paying good money to watch this, travelling abroad to go to the game etc and the game is nothing more than a training game.

Some teams cant afford to hire experienced administrators and some teams dont qualify for europe every year so may not be aware of proper procedures for  dealing with things in the european game, but I dont think the fans should be punished by having to fork out their hard earned money to watch a game that couldve been legitimized by a Uefa official taking 5 minutes to check on the eligibility of all players before the game started.

I think uefa owe it to the paying public to ensure teams arent making these mistakes before the game goes ahead.  This game was a farce because no matter what the result was, it wouldnt stand.  People are paying good money to watch this, travelling abroad to go to the game etc and the game is nothing more than a training game.

Some teams cant afford to hire experienced administrators and some teams dont qualify for europe every year so may not be aware of proper procedures for  dealing with things in the european game, but I dont think the fans should be punished by having to fork out their hard earned money to watch a game that couldve been legitimized by a Uefa official taking 5 minutes to check on the eligibility of all players before the game started.

now stop being a freaking idiot and listen with your ears and take in with your brain for once and not your green specs


there has now been 3 cases in uefa comps that a situation has occurred where having the 4 official run the team sheet through the computer before he start of play would of solved a problem with players playing that shouldn't have that have ended up with uefa having to make a ruling off the pitch

now stop trying to make me me look the fool and trying to admit your wrong

The other thing is would Legia have been thrown out if the player hadn't come on for the last three minutes? Him playing the last three minutes should be immaterial, as him being listed on the team sheet was the offence.

Wonder what would have happened then? If Legia weren't thrown out in that scenario, Celtic would have had every reason to complain.

It's probably time for you to take a break you're getting too emotional now, it's nothing to do with the teams involved its a process that we are talking about.

If I had called you a freaking idiot you would have given me 3 days in the cooler so I would be grateful if you apologised and retracted that statement and then we can move on.

I think uefa owe it to the paying public to ensure teams arent making these mistakes before the game goes ahead.  This game was a farce because no matter what the result was, it wouldnt stand.  People are paying good money to watch this, travelling abroad to go to the game etc and the game is nothing more than a training game.

Some teams cant afford to hire experienced administrators and some teams dont qualify for europe every year so may not be aware of proper procedures for  dealing with things in the european game, but I dont think the fans should be punished by having to fork out their hard earned money to watch a game that couldve been legitimized by a Uefa official taking 5 minutes to check on the eligibility of all players before the game started.

if you apologies to me for your personal attack on me I will do the same

but if your going to attack me I have the right to reply in the same manor



the fact is on at least 3 occasions a ruling has had to be made after a game that should of been sorted before the game

and you have refused to understand this and keep twisting facts

I partly agree but where do you draw the line? 

Its pretty much the same as going abroad and being cheated by a blatant decision that should have gone your way. 

I've travelled all over watching Celtic it's not always been rosey but you take the good with the bad and you moan like f**k after it. 

The difference with dodgy decisions is they are par for the course, mistakes like this one are clear as day.  Legia Warsaw aren't the also rans of football they are a semi decent side they are well set up, indeed the game in Poland is well set up I'd say from my limited experience of it its probably better administered than Scottish football. 

Celtic fans by in large agree the outcome is a farce, but at the end of the day rules are rules.  We don't need to agree with them to have them enforced.  There are many things I find crazy about football that if I was in charge I would change overnight and I reckon it would make the game far better for players, fans, clubs, managers.  And changing this rule wouldn't be in the top10 of things I would change instantly. 

Problem with this is, as always, when it comes to footie partisanship clouds people's judgement.

In this day and age for UEFA not to have a process by which banned players can't play is pretty ridiculous.

The only person twisting facts is you, you have read headlines on the BBC website and thought ah they are right.  The issue with the Debercen player that was listed on BBC Scotland almost as immediate as this coming into the public domain was ripped apart by many who are more offay with the rules than you or I. 

There are far more pressing issues that need dealt with.  This is tough on Legia, for sure, but at the end of the day they broke the rules. 

Ironside (I understand the point you are making and really don't know what Kmac and Teacake are getting over exited about)

I don't think it is practical to have the onus on UEFA to check players.  In poker we look at rules and say - yeah but if you do that its an angle-shooters charter.  imo putting the onus on UEFA to check before the match would be exactly that eg team puts a suspended player in the line up, but spells his name wrongly or mistypes an id number of some kind and chaos results.  I can think of a myriad of things that could go wrong with a procedure where an official has to check pre-match.  In this case the simplest method is the best with the onus 100% on the team.

Ironside (I understand the point you are making and really don't know what Kmac and Teacake are getting over exited about)

I don't think it is practical to have the onus on UEFA to check players.  In poker we look at rules and say - yeah but if you do that its an angle-shooters charter.  imo putting the onus on UEFA to check before the match would be exactly that eg team puts a suspended player in the line up, but spells his name wrongly or mistypes an id number of some kind and chaos results.  I can think of a myriad of things that could go wrong with a procedure where an official has to check pre-match.  In this case the simplest method is the best with the onus 100% on the team.

Ironside (I understand the point you are making and really don't know what Kmac and Teacake are getting over exited about)

I don't think it is practical to have the onus on UEFA to check players.  In poker we look at rules and say - yeah but if you do that its an angle-shooters charter.  imo putting the onus on UEFA to check before the match would be exactly that eg team puts a suspended player in the line up, but spells his name wrongly or mistypes an id number of some kind and chaos results.  I can think of a myriad of things that could go wrong with a procedure where an official has to check pre-match.  In this case the simplest method is the best with the onus 100% on the team.

Pretty sure me and Teacake are both on the same hymn sheet here and also understand Ironsides point.  That doesn't stop him being wrong. 

You know the old saying opinions are like arseholes. 

Yeah very much this.

Double up i can assure you that I'm not getting over excited about this and agree with your thoughts on it, but getting called a freaking idiot because I don't agree with someone's opinion is a bit much.

to kinboshi lol

Thanks for proving my point

Obv it isn't possible for Dtd to 100% stop someone who is banned from entering a comp and following your logic, if they did manage to enter they would be able to play.

I think uefa owe it to the paying public to ensure teams arent making these mistakes before the game goes ahead.  This game was a farce because no matter what the result was, it wouldnt stand.  People are paying good money to watch this, travelling abroad to go to the game etc and the game is nothing more than a training game.

Some teams cant afford to hire experienced administrators and some teams dont qualify for europe every year so may not be aware of proper procedures for  dealing with things in the european game, but I dont think the fans should be punished by having to fork out their hard earned money to watch a game that couldve been legitimized by a Uefa official taking 5 minutes to check on the eligibility of all players before the game started.

DTD has a full proof way of stopping people who are banned from playing

they cant get in, for a start, and if they did get in they would find into impossible to register

This

having my intelligence questioned because I don't agree with me and you were twisting the subject and question leads me to reply in kind

Definitely not this.

It's not up to uefa to ensure teams do things right. It's up to the teams. Their rules are published in advance, it's up to the club to ensure they adhere to them.

Players can't use performance enhancing drugs, but it appears UEFA would be wrong to test people for this, and it should be left to the clubs to police.

Players can't use performance enhancing drugs, but it appears UEFA would be wrong to test people for this, and it should be left to the clubs to police.

Players can't use performance enhancing drugs, but it appears UEFA would be wrong to test people for this, and it should be left to the clubs to police.

The only people that dont want this implemented, something that should be quick for Uefa to implement and carry out on a match by match basis and that would be good for the game as a whole and for the fans, is Celtic fans.  I can only imagine they dont want this kind of hand holding for other teams in the hope that any other time they get pumped they might sneak back in through a rule breach ;)

I'd be happy for us to get thrown out. I don't think we deserve to be in. I can't think any celtic fan thinks we deserve to be in. Most people have spoke to have said the rule is ridic. No one is arguing that. All some people are saying is why should UEFA have to go through and check people are doing their job properly? Do you realise how much extra work that would create? Particularly at this time of the season. It's not a 5 minute job.

its a 2 minute job by the 4th official when he receive the team sheet
he has to send it to uefa and the press anyway so just a quick run through the uefa database of registered players and all is sorted

its a 2 minute job by the 4th official when he receive the team sheet
he has to send it to uefa and the press anyway so just a quick run through the uefa database of registered players and all is sorted

The only people that dont want this implemented, something that should be quick for Uefa to implement and carry out on a match by match basis and that would be good for the game as a whole and for the fans, is Celtic fans.  I can only imagine they dont want this kind of hand holding for other teams in the hope that any other time they get pumped they might sneak back in through a rule breach ;)

Will every 4th official have access to the internet, an hour before kick off?

in this day and age the answer is yes

In an ideal world, the answer is yes. In reality though, it's a no.

local broadband goes down 3 minute call to HQ all is sorted

I'm going to unban Glasgow Bandit - we can get this thread to 500 pages.

So if the team sheet is wrong or the UEFA typist inputs the wrong data (after all she has to do a load of them at the same time)

So if the team sheet is wrong or the UEFA typist inputs the wrong data (after all she has to do a load of them at the same time) or the 4th official gets locked in the bog or or or

Does the position of typist still exist? Everyone has done their own typing for years. And as they do, can you assume that the person typing would be a she?