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Assume everyone is fit.

I am assuming the first 17 in the squad as follows

Hart, Butland
Cahill, Jagielka, stones, baines, clyne, smalling
Henderson, dier, wilshere,
Sterling, Barkley, alli
Rooney, Kane, Vardy

you have roomm for 5 more

3rd keeper

second left back and or right back

2 midfielders either DM or AM

4th striker

Yes or No to each of these players in the Euro 2016 squad

Ben Foster

Luke Shaw

Ryan Bertrand

Danny Drinkwater

Mark Noble

Adam Lallana

Theo Walcott

Danny Welbeck

Daniel Sturridge

Marcus Rashford

Fraser Forster has to be on the plane if not as number one then ahead of Butland. 

I wouldn't have Rooney either.   Would probably leave Sterling at home as well. 

Ben Foster - No

Luke Shaw - Yes

Ryan Bertrand - Yes

Danny Drinkwater - Maybe. 

Mark Noble - No

Adam Lallana - No

Theo Walcott - No

Danny Welbeck - Yes (if fit and in form

Daniel Sturridge - Yes (as above)

Marcus Rashford - Maybe (would like to see a bit more)

you are taking 3 left backs?

Hodgson has stated Rooney is his captain if fit

trying to keep it realistic!

Too early in the morning for this, opened the thread expected to see Gove and Boris up top :D

Ben Foster - No, has to be Forster

Luke Shaw - No

Ryan Bertrand - Maybe

Danny Drinkwater - Maybe

Mark Noble - Maybe

Adam Lallana - No

Theo Walcott - Probably, depending on his end of season form

Danny Welbeck - Probably, depending on his end of season form

Daniel Sturridge - Maybe, less likely than Welbeck, again depending on his form and fitness

Marcus Rashford - Not a chance! He's played a couple of games! This would be akin to the madness of taking Walcott to World Cup 2006.

Forster for me too.

Ben Foster - No

Luke Shaw - No

Ryan Bertrand - Yes

Danny Drinkwater - Yes

Mark Noble - I would, Roy won't.

Adam Lallana - Yes

Theo Walcott - No

Danny Welbeck - Yes

Daniel Sturridge - If fit I fear for Kane or Vardy.

Marcus Rashford - No, would need to finish the season on 10+ goals?

I don't understand how Wilshire is a lock in Hodgson's eyes (and indeed for this thread).  He hasn't played a single game this season - are we really saying he is that good that if he bumbles through a few end of season Arsenal games half fit he is a better choice than someone who has played all season.  I think this demotivating for other players.  It's not like a key player as in the Rooney/Beckham situation from times gone by.  I also don't see how Sturridge/Welbeck get in the squad unless they shoot the lights out by season end.

he was placed in the list of locks as i think he is for hodgson.

trying to be realistic.

Read this morning he is a 1/2 chance to go. Don't get it myself, but as Tighty says, it is realistic for the list of locks.

The way Hodgson thinks if wellbeck  and Sturridge score a few goals at season end there must be a chance Vardy misses out.

I think the Ox is also a lock if he recovers from his latest injury as Woy loves him.

Ben Foster - No, Fraser Forster #2

Luke Shaw - Yes

Ryan Bertrand - No

Danny Drinkwater - Who? 

Mark Noble - No

Adam Lallana - Yes

Theo Walcott - Yes

Danny Welbeck - Nah

Daniel Sturridge - Yes (as above)

Marcus Rashford - wtf, hasn't he played like 3 games

I really don't get some managers, Roy's insistence on sticking Rooney is to the detriment of the team imo.  He was good 10 year ago when he had pace, the last few seasons in my book he has been pretty poor and his goal scoring record/discipline at big tournaments is questionable. 

I suppose though, it doesn't really matter who Roy picks an England team can't and won't win the tournament.   Making the semi's has to be seen as a massive success. 

Also strongly disagree Wilshire should not go under any circumstances, would be so demotivating for those of them that didn't end up making it and have had an above average season and narrowly missed out.

But going off the fact those 17 are locks then;


Ben Foster - Got to be Forster of Foster - saying that he has had a couple of shocking games the last few, so could be closer than I thought a month ago.

Luke Shaw - expected back at the start of April - should be in if he picks up where he left off - Yes

Ryan Bertrand - No

Danny Drinkwater - yes

Mark Noble - no (extremely close between MN and DD)

Adam Lallana - yes, impressed with him recently.

Theo Walcott - no

Danny Welbeck - no

Daniel Sturridge - yes

Marcus Rashford - no, maybe WC2018 - far too early, he's got his exams to worry about  ;tk; ;carlocitrone;

No Deeney?   :o

Forster

Shaw

Sturridge

Midfield difficult and also need to add Milner and Delph as possibilities.

Milner is a lock

Delph should most definitely not go imo

forgot him but yes i agree

important versatility to play 3 or 4 spots off the bench if needed and lots of experience

Don't really get why people love Everton's shaky defence. Baines can't even get in the side at the moment. Jagielka, I think the fact he has so many caps reflects badly on the dearth of quality at centre back rather than any ability from him, shouldn't be in the squad imo.

The left back spot seems really up for grabs at the moment for England. If Shaw gets 6 weeks at the end of the season then he has to start, there are doubts over everyone in that position.

How come Drinkwater is considered but not Albrighton? (love watching Leicester this season when I've seen them)

I believe Milner will definitely start, not sure where yet though...

the list is not all-inclusive

i think albrighton should be, but won't be

I don't think rashford should be, but might be depending how march-april go

etc etc

Rashford? lol, the new Macheda.

My five

1. Fraser
2. Shaw (depends if fit)
3. Drinkwater, very underrated
4. Sturridge
5. Michail Antonio, form player of the prem

lol when the starting team is
hart
clyne jagielka smalling shaw
milner henderson barkley
sturridge rooney welbeck
will be awful

Could Vardy and Kane play in the same starting XI? assuming (hoping) Rooney is injured, suspended - would Vardy function out wide in a front three? Would England ever play two up top?

one up, 3 in behind. 2 defensive midfielders

Vardy has only played out wide for England. doesn't suit him, needs to be on the last shoulder with space in behind. His style doesn't really suit England's but may be a useful option if chasing a game, off the bench

i agree that behind rooney and kane his place in the squad may be vulnerable to sturridge and or welbeck who can play the wider role more effectively

Kane, Vardy, Alli and Stones should all start.  Roy will start none of them I imagine and go with his tried and tested flops.

Welbeck has done really well for England, he deserves to be in the squad and even starting. He has also stepped up and performed in big games in the past. don't get the hate for him.

. It is unfortunate that Gibbs seems to have regressed and be out of favour at Arsenal, he seemed to developing really well. He could be a great buy for someone in the summer.

Also do we think Dier is a cert for the starting XI now in defensive midfield? The other options seem to be limited...

I can just about see the point with Kane. Vardy and Alli - mmm mehbe

Stones - wahahahahaha..such a liability

Would have Charlie Daniels in there as the back up left back. Had a superb season, better form than Bertrand and Shaw unlikely to be fully fit.

He's done pretty well in an England team that has been dire under Hodgson in 2 finals now.  Given he has been injured most of the season I think it's time Hodgson moved on unless he has a stellar last 10 games with Arsenal.  The hate isn't so much for the player himself, more Hodgson's view that an entire season of form is irrelevant and that Wilshire, Welbeck and Sturridge may be guaranteed places despite producing zero all season for their clubs.  And this based on international careers at a time when England have been utterly indifferent unless they are playing the role of flat track bully.

So should Roy go after the Euros? 

Loyalty to players seems to be a very British trait, it doesn't seem to be as big an issue on the continent. 

Roy should have gone after the World Cup, but seeing as he has been given another chance I imagine a quarter final spot would be seen as satisfactory with the current team.  Or even second round if there are a number of swashbuckling performances and we get a hard draw.

Disagree a lot with this really. Loyalty and sentiment is in football all over europe/the world.

Exhibit A. The latter part of Iker Casillas' Spain and Madrid career

That was actually a player I was thinking of, and part of me was thinking he had some pretty poor performances but also some terrible defenders in front of him.   I'm not saying it doesn't happen but there are coaches - especially international coaches in Europe - who are very much like well you have been pretty shit, you are out the team. 

Personally, I think there is a place for Loyalty but perhaps always being the first name on the team sheet isn't the way to offering that. 

Sorry for the de-rail of the thread, but I think it's an interesting subject.   

Walcott will go. Wiltshire should definitely not go

Del Bosque is fiercely loyal to his Spain squad especially the ones who have been with him since the start. Must be remembered they all played a big part in easing the pressure on him when he could have been sacked early doors.

I don't understand how Wiltshire is even in the equation, absurd!

Walcott is a definite no for me 49 premier league games and 14 goals for me in the last 3 seasons just doesn't cut it for an international player. 

Sure there are excuses but where do you draw the line. 

There are players in the EPL who have scored more goals than that in one season. 

How about Wilshere?

Should take a form team. Would always be very positive about taking players from the premier winners (european winner aswell but lol chances) form/ confidence is all important.

I think we should adopt a system similar to athletics (no not shoot them up with roids) where habitual failures dont get taken. Analyse any player who had reasonable amount of major tournament opportunities and dump them out if them let down. Personally would rather watch a less talented team give everything than watch the same crocks put in the same boring heartless performances we always watch.

Dump rooney, hes the personification of crap we have endured. Take all reasonable spurs/ leicester players, they are the success stories whatever happens. We are underdogs so why not take english players who have helped underdogs overachieve in the league? That is what we are hoping to achieve in the euros?

We have supposedly the best most competitive league in the world, why do we never listen to its lessons? Start the two highest scoring englishmen. Use the defenders from tightest defences possible etc etc

No way Baines should go, so far away from international class.



                  Hart

Clyne  Stones   Smalling   Shaw

               Dier
         Alli        Barkley

X            Kane        Sterling

Butland
Forster
Cahill
Bertrand (can play as defensive winger in games we want to shore up too and double up on people like ronaldo etc)
Milner
Henderson
Vardy
Rooney
Welbeck


Something like that for me, avg age definitely under 25, probably 22ish? Exciting team, lots of confidence in it.

Don't you need some proven international experience in there though as well?

why? the experience we have from those with experience is failure and nerves. In four years, they will have experience too when we might have a real chance

He'll play 2 holding midfielders, then 3 attacking midfielders behind 1 up top if all his selections in qualifying are anything to go by so i think your formation is incorrect

those 2 holding midfielders are one of the key conundrums

Henderson, Dier maybe first choice?

wilshere, delph maybe in reserve, outside bet drinkwater.

Or you could mentally damage the young players.  

Look how the best teams of the last 2 decades went about things.  They brought players through from under 18 all the way through the under 21's and 23's and brought them into their senior sides.  

This is where teams from these Islands tend to fail.  England promote one or two potential superstars at a time, Scotland don't tend to play anyone under the age of 30.  Wales never seem to get enough talent at anyone time but when they do they tend to give it a go.   The NI/ROI don't seem to give youth a chance at all.   Or when they do they cap them young to try and stop them being snapped up elsewhere and then tend not to play them.  

If you were to go down your route, personally I'd bring in a Sports Psychologist to work with the players before hand and  mentally prepare them for failure but with the intention to come right back stronger, not sure Roy has the foresight for that.  

Surprised Mason and Rose aren't being mentioned. Spurs have the best defensive unit in the league and Rose has been the first choice left back. He's improved substantially in the last two seasons and is a genuine threat up the wing. A team with two DMs needs wing backs and he's ideal.

As for Mason, he again fits the model of box to box and has already made his debut for England. High energy,  pressing midfielders are what we need. One Leg Wilshere alongside Henderson is a sure fire way to an extended pre season holiday.

Can someone not find an English grandparent for Mahrez?

Seriously though, we absolutely must learn from previous errors. Do not pick players on reputation (AKA Rooney) and pick players who are in good form and performing well in the Premiership.

Would love to see Drinkwater and Dier in the midfield, the two best English midfielders on current form. I want to see Alii as one of the attacking three midfielders. I want to see Vardy on the shoulder of the last defender terrifying people with his pace.

What I'll get is Henderson (sigh) Sterling (what has he actually done this season?) and Rooney (huge sigh) with Walcott probably on the other wing (what has he ever done?).

If (and it's a fairly big if) Wilshere and Ox are both fit they will both start.

Wilshere has been MOTM in his last 2/3 starts for England and Woy loves Ox too.

Oxlade chamberlain definitely will not start

squad player, off the bench maybe.

not a starting player in a front three in a euro2016 game, of that i am absolutely certain. not consistent or reliable enough

lets accept he'll start rooney up top. i know, but lets accept it

he then has to pick three of the following behind, two wide once central

vardy, kane, sturridge, welbeck, alli, barkley, sterling, lallana, walcott, milner

depending on what combination he wants, how narrow he wants to play, whether he wants defensive help in front of the full backs

i wouldn't have Ox ahead of any of these

Ralph are you seriously saying you would?

that said, i have just checked and ralph has a point, ox started in 7 of the euro2016 qualifiers

Ox has played much better for England than he ever has for Arsenal

I am not a fan but he is 100% in the squad and probably the team

He picked both Ox and Walcott during the qualifiers when he could and always started Ox ahead of Theo as far as I recall.

He also played Jack as a holding midfielder, a position he hasn't played for Arsenal since he was a teenager being educated by AW. I hesitate to mention his full name as I don't want to trigger the sprinkler-system.

I agree they will both be in squad but don't think they'll start.  Of course in reality Wilshire has no business being anywhere near the squad but this is Hodgson.

if Kane doesn't start as the out and out striker its a complete joke. He's the perfect striker, especially the perfect lone striker. He can head, tackle, shoot from far, shoot from near, brings others into the game, is fit, doesn't get injured, always plays 90 minutes.

             Hart

Clyne  Jagielka   Smalling   Shaw

               Dier
         Alli        Barkley

Sturridge    Kane        Vardy


Although, I can see it being Rooney in for Vardy, and Sterling in for sturridge

Any idea how many goals Harry Kane has scored from outside the box?  No matter which team they put out it is going to be a painful experience watching this lot.  Are we still building for the future?  I recall hearing these words 12 years ago and the England team becomes worse as each tournament comes around.

2 goals in the league from outside of the box from 39 attempts.

Unsure if I agree with this, I think our strike force is pretty decent at a Euro level. I do think defensively, particularly at central defence we need to improve.

latest friendly squad

England squad

Goalkeepers: Jack Butland (Stoke City), Fraser Forster (Southampton), Joe Hart (Manchester City).

Defenders: Ryan Bertrand (Southampton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Nathaniel Clyne (Liverpool), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), Chris Smalling (Manchester United), John Stones (Everton), Kyle Walker (Tottenham Hotspur).

Midfielders: Dele Alli (Tottenham Hotspur), Ross Barkley (Everton), Eric Dier (Tottenham Hotspur), Danny Drinkwater (Leicester City), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Adam Lallana (Liverpool), James Milner (Liverpool), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City).

Forwards: Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Jamie Vardy (Leicester City), Theo Walcott (Arsenal), Danny Welbeck (Arsenal).

Find it interesting that 9 of the top 10 teams in the PL are represented in the squad - ties in with the comments elsewhere about the 'mid table' tables now being able to attract and retain the top talent due to their budgets.

Almost certain Roy will pick Rooney in the no 10 role, so behind whoever plays as the central striker.

To that end it'll be interesting to see if Kane leads the line in the friendlies or plays behind Vardy or any other striker.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeaKwmyUEAAwt3j.jpg:large)

not enough pace.

Need Vardy in for Rooney.
Also Stones is very overrated.

Think you can only play one of Ali and Barkley.
Drinkwater>Milner
Kane, Vardy, Wellbeck could work as a front 3. Lots of pace and workrate.
If Sturrdige is fit we've got to play 2 upfront surely?

its all academic fellas

if fit rooney is the first name on roy's team sheet and the team/formation fits round him. yes?

vardy will be on the bench

dier +1 in holding midfield

smalling +1 at centre back

etc etc

Cahill captain vs Germany
Maybe he starts

Zero mention of Defoe in the thread. 20/1 to make the squad suggests clicking the post button will expose my shocking football knowledge, and result in me looking like a right knob.

Re: OP list - Drinkwater, Noble, Lallana all in for me. 3rd goalie idk, West Brom doesn't even register in my brain due to being irrelevant, like a few of their players exist but that's all I know about them lol. Flip with Forster I guess? Dunno about the LB after Baines, is Shaw even going to be fit in time? :S

I'd also not have Rooney or Wilshere out of the first 17, but doubt that's happening. Gonna be a decent % of people in the final game of the season hoping that Rooney pulls a hamstring IMO.

tonight's team

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CebI1JWWQAAzmSZ.jpg)

i think the difficulty with this is that six strikers are currently in the frame

rooney, kane the certainties

vardy, sturridge, welbeck and walcott as well

only 5 of these can go, so one misses out

thats before you consider someone elese like Defoe

Alli impresses me more and more with each time I see him play, in this system Roy likes to play it is him or Barkley , Ithink Barkley could have an important role coming off the bench this summer though.

forwards wise I think Rooney and Kane are 100% going if fit, I think Welbeck will almost certainly go as well if fit, he has done well for Roy in the past and again fits in to this system that Roy likes. Then I think it will be 1 from sturridge and Vardy.

England not world beaters but good to watch them with a decent 1 - 11 without any real so-called big names.

Rooney would, I think, make this team worse

Hodgson should be building his team round the Spurs prospects rather than going back to the old flops.

Was just thinking they should totally build it around kane.

and vardy, what a boss

Vardyyyyyyyyyyyy

Wish we had a back four mind. Central defence a real weakness

It would be great if we could defend as a team, because if we could play vardy and kane up tops it wouldnt matter if they could play together, they are capable of scoring and creating stuff from nowhere. Been totally dominant in the second half but everytime the germans go forward they look like they will score.

Team is so much better when everyone doesn't have to be fitted around Rooney.

Think theres only two people in the world disagree. Thing with rooney is he doesnt even play to suit himself. If on the pitch he would be dropping deep getting pointless touches

Absolute magic from england second half. Start the team thats ended this one imo

Yep.  Great performance.

Good stuff, don't often watch footy but enjoyed that.

Really enjoyed that which doesn't happen too often when watching England

Cahill a liability .

Fancy backing over 2.5 goals in most English matches if we play with that positive attitude.

Start with same team except move dier to centre back, Henderson and drink water in the middle.

Even I enjoyed that!

the guardian this morning

the team they want to see, which is not going to happen as hes not playing 2 up top

but anyway

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ceoas72W8AA18Hn.jpg)

Seems even in the dream team the centre back pairing still looks very flimsy!   Any other generation of players and Cahill gets no where near the team imo.

What I hope Roy does is adapt his team, both in formation and personal, based on who we're playing. The best 11 to start versus Russia is almost certainly different to the best 11 to start versus Wales. Plans to nullify Bale etc where perhaps Stones and Dier sitting in front of a back four might be necessary. Vardy is almost certainly a better option against teams where we'll have less of the ball and play on the counter etc. Welbeck's far better defensively than Sterling and so on.

Anyway we've got two different formations we've played enough over the last two years that we've got more options, at least in the front four/three, than at any point since 2002/2004, in my opinion.

Not getting ahead of ourselves, after one decent friendly performance, but looking at the draw it seems crucial that we win the group if we want to entertain any ambitions of going beyond the last eight. Finishing second in the group means we get popped in the same quarter as France and Germany. Finish third and go through and we're looking at Germany or Spain as probable last 16 opponents. Win the group and you get a third placed team and win that and likely opponent's are one of Portugal/Italy/Belgium/Austria. None of which are easy, of course, but none of the calibre of Germany/France.

Good post Dino

Milner captain. Is he even good enough to be in the team?

Probably one of those players good enough for squad due to his utility factor, but not good enough for the full strength team. 

Probably not but will be in the squad
Have listened to a lot of people interviewed from world cup winning squads and they all mention the importance of the players who do not play (attitude e.t.c). Think people like milner are musts for the squad

Most experienced player in the squad so I think it's only natural he's made captain.

Isn't it time to start looking forward tho?

Will hart play? He could be capt, if Roy doesn't want a goalie capt then surely someone else would or could do for a friendly?

I'll go to the euros in the squad if you want Horsey dressed in a clown suit for when we're losing at half time :)

going dutch with a diamond

Forster,

Walker, Rose, Smalling, Stones,

Drinkwater,

Barkley, Milner,

Lallana,

Vardy, Sturridge

Please let us destroy this Dutch team tonight so England can go off sub 6/1 for this event in the summer.  Must be one of the worst England elevens ever tonight.

No idea how Lallana is seemingly a key player for Roy.

On a separate issue. Two of England's rock solid players over the past decAde gabby at villa and theo at arsenal.  Both as good as former England internationals,  I was having s discussion today. With a decent judge about the most over paid England internationals with multiple caps in epl history.  Pound for pound gabby£65k a week and theo £110k a week for the last 8 years if you were an owner of an epl club which salary would you have preferred to have paid?  Obviously neither but you have to pick one.

Great question

neither

i have to pick one?

neither

really?

Gabby i think (though it went wrong when his personal life caused problems at the club) because you save £45k a week on theo who has never produced enough



next question

you can only take 5 of these to france

rooney. vardy. kane. walcott sturridge. welbeck

who do you leave at home?

Walcott one of the most overpaid players in the EPL for sure.  Wenger should have sold him to some mugs when he was on the lower contract.  Now Arsenal are stuck with him.

To be fair good play from Lallana there for the Vardy goal.

.

Has to be Walcott.

Walcott by a country mile.  Then wellbeck.  The rest are 1.01s is fit.  I would take Defoe ahead of either as a fifth option.

I would have much preferred to have paid theo than gabby by a mile,  not sure if gabbys goals have ever really kept villa up.  He has scored 28 eps goals in the last six seasons before that they were solid top ten team.  Amazing how gabby was at his peak the higher villa were in the league,  the lower down the league they go the more he regresses which suggests he is a role player at best. Theo will def have fired arsenal into multiple fourth place spots over that eight year period that they might not have got without him.

Did Sven kill Walcott In 2006 or was he never anything more than a rich mans franz Carr.  I don't buy the injury arguments he has had years of injury free time and just couldn't do it for arsenal.(Winger with lightening pace for those under the age of 35).  Quickest footballer I have ever watched live by a mile over 40 yards.  Cloughie said he did 100m in 10.3 seconds in late 80s in football boots on the training pitch.

Thought all the Everton players were poor tonight.

That ruins the thought of getting some of the Leica epl can't win donk off back on laying England in the summer!

Stones needs a year under a top manager in a proper defensive system, neither of which he currently has. A great talent but not ready to start in a major champs yet

One positive tonight Rooney realises where his best position is nowadays, in the booth going emmmmmmmmmmmm whilst he collects 300 large a week for the next 3 years.

By the time Rooney gets to the final year of his contract I doubt he'll make the United bench.  Incredible contract he got himself.

Not being contrary for the hell of it but why do you  say he's a great talent ? I ask because a  lot of people say it but I really don't get it.

Not many centre halves just punt it these days so he doesn't really stand out as a ball player in any kind of special way and, to me, he's a complete flake in terms of any kind of defensive work.

Even more incredible he is turning down 700k a week tax free in China for three years!

In the ball playing sense if you compare him to Jagielka, Smalling, Cahill then he is a talent I suppose.

I don't get the stones hype at all.  His epl team is one of the most clueless defensively in epl history relative to wage bill and talent.

well I think he can pick a pass and has vision that not many centre backs have. Defensively though I agree, not ready yet. Stones or Cahill next to smalling? I have to go Cahill but it's a definite weak link in the squad

some of that is Martinez. Would like to see stones in a pochettino team, for example. Get him defending

Shawcross missing for Stoke moves the Asian market more than any of these guys and it isn't even close.  These guys are playing in systems where they are protected and delude themselves into thinking they are great players be cause they play for a team with a badge. As discussed in another thread this is changing.  The masses don't realise it yet.  The shrewdies do.

You can't get more results orientated than Ryan's treatment, one of the greatest players in the modern era destroyed him in one half with wonder goals and he hasn't played for England since.  I would love football gambling pros to run the England run who can see outside of results short term then we might actually have a chance of winning something,  how can a top class centre half be put in a coffin internationally for his whole life because of that? It is truely redic.

I will flip the discussion from earlier name me a more under paid player in the last 8 years in the epl consistently over those years than Ryan? £50k a week at his peak more than half of that period less than half of that.

Very likely going to Man City in the summer. Should be a great bit of business for Everton.

I agree on Shawcross. We can't win the tournament with Stones/Jag/Cahill alongside Smalling in the same way we can't win it with Rooney, Sterling and Sturridge

I have no idea why Shawcross isn't in the squad.  Until this post I didn't even know he had a cap - think I was abroad that year - what happened?

Yep, I don't think we disagree I just find players like this interesting - his main job is to be a defender and he's pretty poor - just inexcusable schoolboy errors and yet playing at the highest levels as a defender. If his vision and passing was really out of the top drawer he'd be in midfield as his defensive work is just average, but he isn't. Almost like, put him in to satisfy the mild clamour, so he can show why he shouldn't be in

Yep, take your ticket on Shawcross but somehow he just doesn't fit the profile and doubt he'd ever get an extended run to prove his worth.

Be very surprised if he ends up at Eastlands when we have Denayer returning to us next season. Esp as Everton will quote a ridiculous £50m or so for what is a very raw centre half with plenty of room for improvement.

Pretty sure Shawcross played in the game when Zlatan scored the 40 yard overhead kick.

It is these reasons why the epl markets are usually wrong and not right on so many games,  betfair isn't always right, believe me.  Just like woy hasn't got a clue about centre halfs.

Yes it is a standing joke in the Stoke dressing room that he wasn't good enough to stop that wonder goal. Hence finishing his international career even though him missing for Stoke in the epl moves Asian markets more than virtually any centre half

Might be different with the new ownership at Goodison but I strongly suspect he might go.

Chelsea are welcome to him  :D

He should be paid to leave for £50m by Everton, their defence this season has been truly awful. Without the big boy up front they would be in a relegation battle,  why can't people see the wood for the trees? Do we always have to be so results orientated?

Without being boring this is why the epl market isn't always right, just another example,

Ps how does sir tony b make a living if the ell market is always right? He doesn't put his money down until late Saturday? Maybe all the people who say it isn't possible just follow the machine and can't price up a coin flip. Just making blooms positions even stronger as he takes advantage of arbers holding up prices he wants to back but can't get on at the lol firms but the Arbers hold them up on the exchanges for him.

On top of this they forget the Asian sheep follow bloom in blind so balls deep that it creates value on the other side at 255pm on a Saturday,  they think he has a crystal ball. He has but at what price! Lolzzzzzzz

Sure he bets the other side of most stuff on the off because it moves that much of his view and he is effectively an arber turning over fortunes risk free,

Shawcross moving Asian markets more than any other centre half doesn't make him better than centre halfs who don't. It just means his 'value over replacement player' is higher than others because the drop off in talent between 2nd and 3rd best centre-half at Stoke is greater than at other clubs.

He should definitely have more than one cap though.

I would agree with what you are saying for sure on both counts to a certain extent.  i equally don't think the gulf betwen Stoke's and Everton's first and 3rd choice centre halfs is much different tbh (or many other epl sides tbh) which is what actually causes the moves.  He might be old school and unfashionable but he is one of the best centre halfs in the EPL of any nationality.

There's some parallels between Stoke and Everton. The toffees seem to look better when it's Jags +1. Also Funes Mori has, numbers wise, had a good season. Looking at some opta stats he ranks first/second out of the three Everton centre halves for 
% Aerial duels won, interceptions, recoveries, clearances and blocks. Obviously they've not all played the same number of minutes but without getting a calculator out at this hour I think that's true for per 90 minutes too.

Agree re: Shawcross but, getting this back on topic, for me he wouldn't be in my squad because I'd only take seven defenders (excluding goalkeepers historically most of the players who play zero minutes at major comps  are defenders for a variety of reasons). His lack of versatility counts against him as does the fact Dier can play centre-half/right back.

I would counter this with Tal's comment.  You have to go all out to win these events.  I would never ever take 3 keepers to these events.  I would happily get beat with 2 keepers in 3-5 games if 2 of my keepers got injured.  I would just suck it up and say 'reallllllllllllllllly?'.  If two of your 3 keepers get injured in a short event like the Euro's it isn't meant to be anyway.  I can't imagine how unmotivated the 3rd keeper must always be on a 6 week road trip like this after a long EPL season.  He knows he is 1.01 to never even get on the pitch.  The vast majority of times you don't need injury cover.  I would always take the best players in each position even if they are total specialists and offer nothing anywhere else.  Going with 'squad players' and 'utility players' like Milner/Phil Nev/Steve Hodge just tells everyone you know you can't win the event.  Balls deep or nothing for me.  

Interesting point you make about only taking two keepers. Can anyone remember a time in the last ~30 years where two of a country's keepers were injured in the same tournament? Probably never happened? I wonder what it would do to the mindset of the one remaining keeper if the first got injured in an early group game? It may affect his decision making too much.

It would take a brave, brave manager to only take two, fear of media ridicule is high! I can certainly see an argument for taking a specialist penno saver as the third option, though.

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/03/92/81/2039281_DOWNLOAD.pdf

s44.02 says 3 of the 23 must be goalkeepers.

Arb on the sauce again?

Plus you can't register an outfield player as a goalkeeper as he will only be allowed to play in goals. I'm pretty sure a nation tried this before in attempt to find a loop hole

North Korea in the 2010 World Cup.

I saw him a lot prior to us selling him to Everton and he was a different class to any other young defensive talent I've seen over the years.  Once he broke into the first team I tipped that he'd be England captain one day, and I still think he has the ability to be world class.  However, he's stagnated at Everton this season.  Not sure how much this is a result of the transfer talk or Everton's deficiencies, but he's probably not helped himself by staying.  I hope he gets a big money move this summer as I think he needs it to develop to the next level (not to mention the sell-on clause that would, in itself, break our transfer record for fees received!)

it has been hinted that roy will go a defender light to take an extra striker

7 defenders

with dier able to go cb in a pinch

and clyne able to go left back

would you go one light at full back or centre back?

smalling, cahill, stones, jagielka

rose, shaw/baines, clyne, walker

one stays at home

do you go without jagielka or shaw/baines?

Has Dier played a single match at centre back this year? Even if not he still might be better than Jagielka! Personally would prefer the extra cover at centre half.

Full back is more easy to fudge and fit someone in? Move Stones across, play a LB at RB or vice versa, maybe even Milner?

I'd take four central defenders, two left backs and go one light at right back. Both Walker/Clyne deserve to go but there are more players in the squad who can cover there than at left back. Given the propensity of inverted wingers these days attacking full backs are so important that playing a right footer at left back is really bad IMO.

Edit: It's probably come a month or two too early for him but Flannagan, who seems equally comfortable at right or left back, would be a good squad player to take.

In the Premier League only as part of a back three I think. Played there away against Watford on Boxing Day. Not sure about Europa League and other cup comps though.

Id leave Clyne at home. He's looked pretty woeful for club and country. Had one decent season for Southampton

?

He's first choice right back! thought he was very good in Berlin, offers something overlapping too as we saw with the vardy goal

0% he's left at home, surely

I'm not usually a fan of Clyne either but I agree he had a good game in Germany and his pace can be a real threat going forward.
If Shaw if fit and raring to go I think he is a must but he's not even back from injury yet and took ages last year to get back fit. He is a liability when he's not fit. I don't think Baines has been great either this season, what has Cresswell got to do to get a shot?

Cresswell? Gotta play for a different team to get looked at :|

apparently roy contacted john terry to sound him out. absence of left sided centre backs etc

Should England coach Roy Hodgson take John Terry to Euro2016? http://dailym.ai/1MDm4fb   

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ce3flJsVAAEfUKT.jpg)

would you take him, if available?

terry - smalling
yes

Carries too much baggage. Shouldn't look back now. He completely destroyed the dressing room in South Africa 2010 and led a player revolt against Capello.

No thank you.

Terry? Yes

Nothing to do with chucking a daft fiver on @ 50s honest, could also help the other fiver on England to go out on penalties...

I would take Terry if he is willing, England are very poor in defence and have been for some time. Only concern would be his lack of pace.

Has no one watched Terry play this season? Would struggle in the Championship.

BREAKING: Jordan Henderson is ruled out for the rest of the season and is a major doubt to play at Euro 2016

If Woy sticks to his policy of only taking proven fit players, as well he should, then Henderson cannot make it back.
Opens a spot for someone, ? Drinkwater as a possibility

Does he have a policy of taking proven fit players? Didn't really think so when the likes of Wilshire and Shaw are being talked up as squad certainties if they make it back in any way by the end of the season and in Shaw's case even if he misses the end of the season could still 'prove himself'

Drinkwater deserves it far more than someone like Delph, hope he gets the nod.

Last I read he only wanted players that were fit, but we all seen squads at previous tournaments where players who were clearly not fit go, so who knows??

Any scenario that sees Andy Carroll squeeze his way in? Just think he's a great option from the bench

Agreed. The problem is who to leave out to make room for him.

Rooney.

Job done.

I think if Sturridge can't prove his fitness then he doesn't make the plane

Before every major tournament that I can remember England seem to lose a couple of major players. It happens to most countries to be fair e.g. Marco Reus in 2014 for Germany.

We've already seen Henderson likely ruled out of the Euros and when Kane took a whack on the foot from Darmian yesterday I feared the worst. So, it got me thinking which players injury would have the biggest affect on England's Euro 2016 campaign and their defeat on penalties to the first decent team we face?

I think we're pretty well stocked in the forward positions to absorb one major injury but we're obviously far lighter at the back and the drop off in talent between the first XI and the rest is probably larger. Unsurprisingly I think we'd miss those who make up the spine of the team the most so I think my top five would probably look like this:

1) Eric Dier
2) Joe Hart
3) Harry Kane
4) Smalling or Cahill
5) Wayne Rooney

There doesn't seem to be a like for like replacement for Dier.
Forster is an excellent goalkeeper but has five caps and whatever level of football you play at the defence having confidence and understanding in/with their goalkeeper is massive.
Lots of striker options but Harry Kane is Harry Kane. No one else can lead the line as well as he can.
Smalling and Cahill are the best of a bad bunch of centre-backs.
Don't laugh! There are many who'd probably celebrate if he got injured, but I still believe he's the best number 10 we've got (I'm not a United fan) and the psychological effect on the opposition of him being in the team is huge - all the pundits who've played at that level say it is anyway.

Thoughts?

i think we could go without Rooney. in fact it solves all sorts of problems if he wasn't fit, because i think roy would shoehorn him in behind Kane and the pace of play would slow as a result

i would be happy with forster if hart was out. if both were out and we had heaton and foster? no, though on limited evidence i have never seen heaton have a bad game stretching back to seeign him in the championship 3 years ago

smalling not cahill. smalling is the one who is irreplacable in an already suspect back 4

dier, i agree

Kane, yes in part because i couldn't see them playing the style of play required for vardy all tournament

so i am with you on 3 of the 5 mentioned

Rooney is tricky because a, he takes ages to get match fit something becoming more apparent as he gets older and b, he is in even his biggest supporters books not going to play every minute of every game.

Think that results in him being not a bad influence but not someone who is used to being a reserve for a long period of time.

I sense us being in trouble in a game and the automatic clamour will be to go to Wayne, in reality Vardy is likely to be much more effective than Rooney is from the bench and possibly vice versa from the start,

Not taking Rooney as an option seems pretty ridiculous

I would take him purely for penalty shoot outs if we seriously think we can win this thing we are going to be involved in at least 1 shoot out.  Non playing captain in a similar role to Beckham.  Think rooney's ego is fine to cope with his decline.  He is a team player and adapted well to being shoved around United's team sheet out of position for years.  This is just another adjustment to make on his rapid decline into the rest of his 3.5 years on £300k a week at Manure.  It will be good practice for his last 2 seasons on his Manure contract for him.

He's earned his place in recent seasons yeah?

Massively over the hill at 30, has been in decline for 2 years and its only going one way. For this England team to adapt and evolve, Rooney needs sacking off. He'll go in the summer for depressingly obvious reasons, but this tournament should be his swansong for England.

He's been dreadful this season.  Looks unfit and imoblile.  Just because Utd are lumbered with a long 300k a week contract doesn't mean that England can't jettison the chuffer early.

Amen to that.

He was in really good form
Before the injury no?

Short sighted to think he can't influence a game. Agree he shouldn't be starting but not having him as at least an option is just dumb

Not taking Rooney would be pretty obscene. Agreed - he definitely isn't what he used to be, he started the season poorly but was playing some decent football just before his injury.

We need a leader, even if he doesn't (which he won't) play every game. We are lacking this hugely without him and it will definitely not be the same if he was to just travel with the team, which I'm unsure he would even do!

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain out of #Euro2016 after suffering knee injury setback http://dailym.ai/1q37iUj

Good for the Townsend bet :)

Alleged leak of squad

Nobody actually believes this, do they?

As about as believable as the "European Super League"  ::)

Wellbeck out for nine months. Just take the four strikers now?

Gutted for Wellbeck as he always gives 100% and works really hard but are we missing anything we haven't got in Vardy?

An article from a couple of years ago which argues we should take more attackers not fewer: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10663062/Roy-Hodgson-must-eschew-too-many-defenders-and-load-Englands-World-Cup-squad-with-attacking-options.html

26 players to be reduced to 23

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CikdaT3WwAA9yog.jpg)


if we assume that rashford doesnt go he has to reduce 11 midfielders to 9 to get to 23

only 7 defenders named, no jagielka for example

that fight in the midfield department is fierce

I think it should be Delph and Wilshire who miss out.  Knowing Hodgson it will be Drinkwater and Townsend though.

I don't know why we have to take 4 full backs?

Bertrand/Delph/Rashford be the three missing it for me.

you cant go with 6 defenders, he's already gone a defender light by only picking 3 centre backs to try to get the extra midfielder in

bertrand can be centre back in a pinch


i think its rashford, delph + 1 to miss out

i can see danny d getting stitched here by sicknote jack w looking fit in the three warm up games which would be unfortunate after the season drinkwater has had

Dier will be in the squad and could slip in at CB - Milner has done a job at FB in the past. Frees up space for more creative players which could be more effective than Bertrand sitting on the bench for a few weeks.

Using that reasoning it should probably be a right back who misses out, given Milner/Dier can fill in there. Neither are left footed, if we were going a full back light then I'd leave a right back at home. Think we should take four though.

Are we assuming Rooney is going to play upfront or centre mid?

middle of a three behind Kane?

Hart

Clyne-Smalling-Cahill-Bertrand or Rose

Dier-Henderson

Alli-Rooney-Lallana or Barkley or Sterling

Kane

something like that?

That's like the worst option. Playing Ali out of position and having all our attacking play through Rooney? Puke

Send sterling home. Rashford & and one of the right backs too.

Ideally Sterling, Delph and Rashford get the boot.

Delph, Townsend and Rashford to get the boot.

Think the Rooney hatred has gone too far now, I actually thought he played well in that AMC role against West Ham (some cracking/clever balls and chipped crosses) but I must have been watching a different game as several people/pundits have said he was poor.

Why does Roy keep picking that dirty little oik Wilshere?

Milner, Henderson, Dier, Drinkwater, Wilshire and Delph are all contesting for 2 spots. Are we going to be using more than 4 of these? Surely more beneficial to keep the game changers, pace players?

they are contesting 4 squad spots, possibly 5

two will play in front of the back 4, two will be needed to back them up.

absolutely essential our decidedly crap centre back options are protected as well as possible, which to me means dier +1 starts

possibly 3 behind the two starters if you think milner might be needed elsewhere or dier at cb

delph i think is the most likely to be left behind

which if any of the other 5 does is probably the toughest call he has to make

I'd for sure keep Milner, Dier, Drinkwater and Wilshire. Don't rate Henderson and Delph at all and would much rather take another defender than either of them and reshuffle.

Wiltshire starting today, what a joke

Looks like 4-4-2?  Alli right wing?

More likely a front 3 with Vardy pulling wide I imagine

is it though?

he's far and away our most talented midfielder. bossed the qualifiers and is a game changer when fit.

all his injuries have been impact injuries so there's no underlying weakness in him physically.

he is desperately short of matches though. so given he is included in the squad and would be the one of the first names on the team sheet when fully fit it would be a joke if he didnt start today - ditto the other two warm up games.

the only way of getting him match fit is to play him in matches.

maybe I'm being biased, but thought Wilshire was shockingly bad today, did absolutely nothing. Alli different league

Walker different class too, his recovery speed is just crazy. Must be horrible to play against.

Wilshere played 65mins which is good for the lad
It's the longest he has been without a cigarette for 2 years ;)

I think once Roy has made the stupid decision to include an injury prone player who has played 2 matches all season, he is pretty much forced to start him in all the warm up games in a vain attempt to get him up to match fitness.  So the warm up games have to revolve round Wilshire rather than developing the team as a whole, which shows what a daft decision it is to even consider him in the first place.

Amazing isn't it?  If he is the new gazza why have none of the big 8/10 teams who are bigger than Arsenal globally tried to sign him during his career?  The reason is obvious.  Arsenal is his peak level.  The same as Theo/Ox and numerous other English over hyped 'talent'.

Obviously the other two are not big drinkers/smokers either like Wiltshire either.  Just makes his case even tougher to take seriously.

exactly, I'm not sure he even gets in first 11 for Arsenal when everybody fit.


Coquelin, Carzola, Ozil, Ramsey, Sanchez.

Thought Stones looked good today btw. Do you guys think it will be him or Cahill partnering Smalling?

Almost definitely Smalling and Cahill
Safe option in Woys mind

Anyone else think there's a slim chance Barkley could miss out on the squad?

He doesn't, to me at least, seem first or even second choice in the formations Roy is likely to set us up in.

In the 4-3-3 he's behind: Alli, Dier, Wishere, Milner, Henderson etc in the midfield three.

In the 4-2-3-1 he's behind Rooney, Alli and maybe even Sterling and Lallana in the no 10 role (his best role) and surely not a contender for the double pivot.

In the diamond formation it's as above really.

He's clearly a better impact player off the bench than most of the other midfielders in the squad, and Roy trusts him, but realistically would he see more minutes than Wilshere, Drinkwater in the above formations and moreover, is he better than them in that role? I can't see him missing out but should he?

delph out and moved to stand by

Stones defended alot better tonight, smalling poor a couple of times. Preferred these two fullbacks. The concern with our formation seems to be that the other team just go down the sides and are free on the fullback and totally bypass our overcrowded midfield. A couple of them trying too hard in there and undoing their good work straight after they did it.

So Delph is out. Who are the other two you are leaving behind?

Sturridge injury bad?
Wonder if rashford goes anyway

Id leave sturridge and milner out. Sturridge is too much of a liability, having darren anderton as your injury cover aint smart. Milner always makes squads on versatility but no team containing him has a hoping hell of winning anything, so if you have to resort to playing him the battles already over.

Townsend - think there are better game changers off the bench and think there are better starters in the positions he'd fill in our likely formations. Rashford goes ahead of him in my opinion.

A.Central.Midfielder - No idea which one I'd leave behind to be honest and Roy's going to get stick whoever it is. If everyone were 100% fit I'd be minded to leave Barkley behind, not on ability, but on the fact I just can't see him getting that many minutes given how we're likely to line up. But, one of Henderson or Wilshere, probably the former as we have similar players to him in Milner/Drinkwater.

Bertrand should start ahead of Rose. Has been far more reserved for Southampton going forward over the last 12 months and his defensive game has come on heaps. Think he is a significant improvement defensively on Rose.

Personally, would leave Rashford, Delph and Barkley.

Drinkwater and Sturridge left out

(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjySQCnUkAQYUbF.jpg)

Deinkwater and Townsend

3 centre halves
1 DM who can cover at centre back
5 strikers
1 winger

What system is this?

Plus, given we have alli, rooney, sterling, wilshere, milner and lallana who've all played at 10 before at some point, why take Barkley?

What a joke to leave out Drinkwater. Hodgson just taking his big club players even if they are unfit or injury prone.  Poor but unsurprising.

Shawcross might as well retire from international football if Drinkwater can't get in after the season he has had.   Sends a terrible message to most players at non big clubs.

Was a supporter of Drinkwater being in the squad, but on the basis of the last couple of games, don't think he's quite good enough.

He could have picked with justification players to leave out based on form, injury proneness, not being ready or the fact they aren't match fit.  Wilshire, Henderson, Sturridge, Rashford, Sterling, Barkley.  But no - Drinkwater gets the bullet.  How depressing.

Why are we taking 5 strikers anyway?

Quite pleased Drinkwater isn't in the squad, mainly because I hadn't heard of him before April this year but also because his surname is ridiculous.

Even more pleased Townsend isn't in as hes gash, all he does is cut inside and shoot.

If Wilshere is fit (Huge IF) hes an absolute game changer, even more so than Barkley imo.

Why did you want us to take 8 CM's!  Give me impact subs to fill the 23 out with any day.

We're not. Rooney won't play as a striker.

Rashford/Sturridge can both play wide in the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 and up top in the 4-4-2 diamond. More versatile than Townsend and more likely to change the game from the bench. Don't think Rashford over Townsend will make much difference, doubt either will/would've seen many minutes. 

I wouldn't.  I'd have removed Wilshire and Rashford and picked Drinkwater and another defensive cover (albeit would need to be someone not in the 26 picked by Roy).  I'd also be tempted to take Townsend over Sterling on form

Has anyone seen tighty?

Someone needs to check he's ok. Probably more devastated than drinkwater!

Never seen such outrage over an average DMC not making an England squad

England's weakness: defence.

Drinkwater: last season more tackles than any other English player, more ball recoveries than Kante.

Oh, and he's fit. (unlike the variety of recent sicknotes travelling)

We go with six players who prefer to play number 10 (including one in Barkley who needs de-Martinez-isation and has lost form and confidence) and 4-5 strikers when we are only going to play one up

we go with 3 centre backs, one of whom needs daily treatment on a hip injury

We go with one defensive midfielder and leave the player best equipped to deputise for him if he has to go into the back four at home. (think this was pretty obvious in the last warm up game. Wlshere is better further forward than at the base of a diamond. Drinkwater was played out of position first half then at the base second half and it looked much better)

I hope we score a lot of goals, we might need to.

--

over and above any quibbles on squad balance and clearly there were some tight calls, does anyone really doubt that if Drinkwater had performed as he did but in an Arsenal or United shirt all season he wouldn't be on the plane?

of course not.

With you there tighty.

Squad looks very imbalanced. Could finish the tournament with Milner and Kane in defence if injuries/suspensions take hold.

Would have taken drinkwater and left 1 of the crocks (Sturrige, Henderson or Wiltshire)

Can't remember the last defensively weak team to win a major tourney

I wouldn't have left Wilshere or Henderson.

I might have left Barkley behind and chosen the extra holding midfielder, just don't see how he gets any game time given the logjam at the position. He has got to beat out rooney/alli/lallana/sterling/milner plus the possibilitty of a striker playing wide in a three for game time?

It's also tough to leave Rashford out given last week, but that might also be a wasted space compared to a fourth centre back (say). If we are down two strikers through injury and suspension, for example, Sturridge would play ahead of Rashford, if fit?

anyway, lets hope we perform and that little bit of fitness luck goes our way
 

Isn't a bit disconcerting that we are arguing about leaving out Danny Drinkwater and Andros Townsend as another side happily pass on the likes of Isco and Diego Costa

Nods (and Saul Niguez too)

though Spain have left out multiple attacking options, and one of the bi-products is they can accomodate an extra defensive midfielder

Meh that works both ways though.

Spain are taking 5 forwards that have played 171 league games this season and scored 52 goals.
England are taking 5 forwards (one hasn't played upfront this season) who have played 127 games and scored 70 goals.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/19693/10301021/james-milner-above-toni-kroos-gareth-bale-and-paul-pogba-in-uefa-rankings-tool

Isco didn't make Spain squad ? Jeez!

Looking at the squad I think Hodgson is still trying to prove he can manage Liverpool players!

He has five in the squad (only 5 English players in the recognised first team) from a team that finished 8th in the Prem shows to me how clueless the man really is. I had to laugh when he was explaining the leaving out of Drinky "he came to the squad late" and then went on to talk about Rashford who of course has been a cornerstone of the squad that Roy is so loyal to.

I now know how Man U fans felt under LVG hoping they win but also thinking if we lose we can get rid.

Loved Owens interview today about Stones. Completely agree.!

It's not just Roy :)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/liverpool-more-players-euro-2016-8092917

Could easily have Lovren and Sakho there too if things had gone differently.

I don't think Hendo should be in the England Squad, but I think the rest probably deserve it.

So Walker and Milner getting the nod.

I've lost count of the number of pundits (and Roy) who seem to think that Portugal going down to 10 men made things harder.  Perhaps we should start with 10 men against Russia?

Didnt we already try that by playing milner?

Watched about 70 minutes of game and then gave up.

Maybe it's all part of Roy's master plan to lull the Euro's opposition into a false sense of security.

 :D

Lots of players looking to just get through the last 90 minutes uninjured? We'd have been more entertained if they'd taken the 1988 route and played Aylesbury Town.

Impressed with Harry Kane's reaction to nearly having his head taken off though. Expectation's nicely damped down, I'm actually looking forward to the tournament now.

In friendlies, should the opposing manager be able to decide whether a player is sent off or substituted?

ITV made an awful lot of the "well, that sending off has ruined Roy's plan" thing.

Needn't make it a rule. Just needs a quiet word.

leaving aside all the stuff about last friendly match, not wanting injuries etc etc

can someone explain why he persists with Vardy wide left, last night as a split striker with Kane wide right and Rooney at the tip of the diamond through the middle?

is this really trying to shoehorn all three in?

Vardy's whole game is playing off the shoulder of the last defender, frightening them with pace, quick through balls either in the channels or over the top.

He is not going to be effective out wide getting the ball with defenders in front of him

Nor is he going to be effective with the pace of build up play being glacial. I almost fel asleep last night waiting for the ball to go forward.

It could well be that he is best used as an impact sub, and you can't or shouldnt play all three of Kane/Rooney/Vardy. Iam fine with that. Start with Kane with Rooney and Alli in behind

but why on earth with a week to go is he trying to fit square pegs into round holes, of which Vardy is a prime example?

Alli very poor in that deep role where he needs to keep his shape as left of the diamond. Milner way too slow in possession and kills it every time, so infuriating to watch.

Alli needs to be given freedom to roam around the number 10 position. Lallana was different class last night and credit where credits due Wilshire changed the tempo. Sterling has that extra yard of pace and composure that you can't teach.


I'd go

                     Hart

Walker  Smalling  Stones  Rose

                  Rooney  Dier

     Lallana        Alli       Sterling

                        Kane

Predict he will go



                    Hart

Walker Cahill Smalling Rose

                    Dier
       
        Milner          Alli

                   Sterling

           Rooney  Kane

I know it's impossible to call or predict what goes on in Woys head a lot of the time... But what are people's opinions/predictions on the starting 11 against Russia then after seeing the game last night? Think that will be the 11 that lines up against Russia or do people think he will change it up again after a subdued attacking performance in this diamond formation he was trying?

I only ask as if he does decide to change the formation again, and revert back to his tried and tested 1 up front with wide attackers, surely that will mean at least 1 or 2 personnel changes also, and given the impact they made last night from the bench, you can currently get 3/1 on lallana to start against Russia (coral), or 7/2 for sterling (sky bet). Still a gamble I imagine as like I said it's impossible to accurately predict what he's going to do, but if he does decide to change it up again for Russia they seem like a decent punt for anyone who likes a gamble?

Love 7/2 for Sterling!!!

I'm beginning to think the starting eleven is irrelevant - it's how he intends to use them. Roy has made a big thing of an attacking squad and loyalty to players he knows, yet he picks two forwards that are lethal in different ways and uses them out of position and purely to feed his love child Rooney. The rest of the squad is almost a mirror image of each other with some pretty one dimensional players in it, although I'm becoming a fan of Walker and Rose.The rest have as many weaknesses as strengths.

Just seen the Woy interview from last night.

Just WTF. I think Wenger is stubborn and blind to the truth. Woy is taking it to a new level.

We have a decent team and the weak link will be the manager if he persists.

What is wrong with these old guys thinking that just cos they have got lucky getting into well paid/kudos filled jobs, because a few things have gone right, that no one else could possibly have a decent viewpoint?

I probably wont be around for many more big tournies, and would love to see us win one while I can still enjoy it, but with this clown at the helm, it wont be this one.

PS, it grates, but Im a big Walker fan too...

Since Roy trumpeted away that he had sent the England fans home with a "smile on their faces" after drawing nil nil with Costa Rica in the World Cup dead rubber I have been of the opinion that he is a complete imbecile.

Was at the game last night at Wembley.  First time i have ever left a football match at halftime in my life.  The first half was so dull (2nd half was even worse by all accounts so quite happy we got an early taxi to Palm beach to beat the rush!).   Also agree Wembley is far too corporately sterile as others have said.  Didn't feel like i was at a big England game.   Atmosphere wasn't there and when it was it seemed fake.  So many empty seats as well given the game was a sell out.  

I've actually misquoted him after Costa Rica and it is worse.

He said:  "I was pleased to give the fans something to cheer about"  and "I couldn't have asked for a better performance"

I look forward to Hodgson's comments about how well he has done after a dour performance at the Euros. 

Been the same for years old Woy. He's a mid-table downwards manager.
Was the same at Liverpool, talking about draws to shit teams being a good result.
England were fucking awful last night and will struggle to make it out the group at the Euros.

I thought similarly for the Netherlands game, which was my first experience of an England football game. There are no songs apart from the national anthem and the Great Escape.

Go during the NFL games, though, and the atmosphere is fantastic. I bet the Sheffield Wednesday fans would tell you they got a decent atmosphere going last week, too.

I think there is some shared responsibility: players, FA and fans.

I really hope the FA looks at what the NFL does and thinks about how to get 80,000 people noisy for sustained periods in what is a spacious and comfortable stadium.