ok lol im giving up. this is getting more and more rediculous with every post. i'm not sure if you don't understand that you are not in very good shape here if either getting called (which is very likely) on the flop or shoved on on the turn (given a pretty useless call on the flop). are you still going to call the turn of for the rest of your stack not having gained any information or improved in any way (as there is no turn card that is going to help you apart from a 3 maybe).

Please break your equity against villains range down for me and prove me wrong?

do u suggest he is ACTUALLY just going to shut down and check fold the turn after checkraising the flop? lol im sorry but that is just out of question. If he actually decides to run a bluff here it will not end after 1 barrel. He has no other option than shoving the turn especially cause flatting the flop would look so weak on our part. We would jam ALL our nut hands on the flop so he has every incentive to bomb the turn and maybe get you to fold a part of your range.

What's our call flop then fold turn range? What is anyone's range for doing this?

we dont have a call flop range? calling is pretty much the WORST option.

no i havn't but all our assumptions are based on either a thinking player who will be capable of twobarreling a bluff (although i still disagree on him having much air in his range here on this board texture) OR a complete moron who will have even LESS air in his range and will then for sure shove any draw, any king or any other hand with possible showdown value.

It is irrelevant how u rate the player imo because the his flop/turn line will hardly differ. I doubt either type is just going to check fold the turn if we peel OR lay down a decent draw OR a king on the flop.

do u suggest he is ACTUALLY just going to shut down and check fold the turn after checkraising the flop? lol im sorry but that is just out of question. If he actually decides to run a bluff here it will not end after 1 barrel. He has no other option than shoving the turn especially cause flatting the flop would look so weak on our part. We would jam ALL our nut hands on the flop so he has every incentive to bomb the turn and maybe get you to fold a part of your range.

Bet more on the flop, we represent our hand better if someone wants to peel one with TTish hands, and mainly to reduce the frequency of his bluffraises (which you seem to be making this the case).   If this is your usual cbet then no need to bet much more.

And easy fold to his raise
 unless you're super sure this is a stone cold bluff, in which case you should jam your stack in, obviously to pick up the 20-30k in dead manies, but hey, your shove would be for ~32k total, so he ain't folding much if he has a piece, and a decent piece on this board has you in pretty bad shape

finally

it is a bit off topic as the main question is jam or fold but i think I would play a delayed c-bet here. I know people are going to say you lose value from draws not betting but BECAUSE villain will hardly fold most of his range here on the flop i think you are better of checking the flop behind and if the turn blanks you can still barrel and maybe even valuebet super thin on the river if he looks you up with strong A high type of hands.

i also don't quite see the reasoning behind bombing the flop "to lower variance" with bottom pair against a guy whose calling range has us absolutely crushed. Still think complete air with no draws and just overs will only make a small percentage of villains check raising range here.

Also, if you decide to peel, why wouldn't he shove basically any turn. He will hardly check fold his air and certainly shove the rest.

[obv]

I would appreciate if we could keep this a gameorientated platform that deals with poker rather than with my obv challenged mental state.

has villain ever flatted pre with AA/KK/AK? as played flat and call it off seems good seeing as he reps like very very few combos since we hold an ace and a 3 and severely cut his value combos. I cant be arsed to do a breakdown, but he reps very few value hands, given he wont always play 66 or KQ this way, so folding v a decent player is gonna be bad. I dunno whats best though, prolly jam? since like 0 draws are gonna get the price if we ship?

wow maybe thats me but i would NEVER fold a decent draw such as OESD + FD or purr + FD here in villians spot getting better than 2:1 on the flop. If we can rule out that he check raises complete air here (which im pretty sure we can if hes a solid player - the board is just awful to generate ANY fold equity) then his range will include hands like 6's, 3's, AK, 4d5d, 6dx, AA, KK and a few weaker Kings maybe JJ and QQ and small FD's. He would obv fold JJ QQ KQ KJ typa hands on a shove but i doubt he mucks TPTK or better.

If i can be bothered later on I'll see how much equity you actually need there against his checkraising/calling  range but i think ur in fairly bad shape.

Nigdawg said it already, but with reads i think i would 4bet but defo not shove. You don't really cripple yourself 4betting small here. 7k should really do the job or at least give u an idea of villians hand range.

dont like flatting either. especially if your plan was to fold any flop you dont connect on. if you think you can float and take it on a later street ok. but just openfolding after having bricked the flop...duno seems dumping 2100.

I really dont like jamming here. I think you are getting called here way too often by big draws with overs like  ,  6dx to have enough equity against his calling range. Your diamond redraw is fairly irrelevant here i think as you wil have bigger problems than just a FD in villians hand.

I might be a nit here but i think i would actually just fold the flop here. Calling seems like the worst option but you will be facing a shove on basically any turn with about 25k in the pot and you only having a pot sized bet behind.

If you were deeper I like 4 bet fold a lot as a line. but thats clearly not an option with your stack. Despite anticipating a move on villians part on this board, i think this is a clear fold as there are no turn cards you are going to like and villian is unlikely to shut down on the turn. You might be folding the best hand here but you will never be better than 50% if the money goes in.

Also, why do you think villian would check raise complete air here a bunch? Doesn't seem like the board to bluff air as its a super wet board and you will hardly fold hands like Kx, a flush draw with an over, sets or else.

so yea. obv fold for me and wait for a better spot.

Hi Ollie, welcome to blonde and well done on your result

Please take a look around the forum. I hope you like what you find, including a great community spirit and an absence of antagonism. Bearing that in mind for your future posts would be helpful!

Hi,

thanks for the welcome. I do apologise if my post has sent the wrong message. I was aiming for a little smile on the readers face and that the whole discussion could be brushed off.

gtfo

3 pound rebuy player...

Hi Ollie, welcome to blonde and well done on your result

Please take a look around the forum. I hope you like what you find, including a great community spirit and an absence of antagonism. Bearing that in mind for your future posts would be helpful!

Hi,

thanks for the welcome. I do apologise if my post has sent the wrong message. I was aiming for a little smile on the readers face and that the whole discussion could be brushed off.

OJ

Quick question - did you kill her?

Lol who?

Welcome to blonde OJ.

Quick Question.

If you had AK off suited on the final table bubble at 5k10k with 500k and rised it to 27k and the other big stack (450k) re-rised to 80k. Would you make a fold? Or would you make a shove? or even make a flat call?

TIA

Hi, two things come to mind. Is the guy a TAG? if yes I would probably prefer 4bet/fold as a line. You will hardly ever have enough equity against his 5 bet shoving range here. Both of you are way to deep to take big flips (that might not even be one) at this stage. I noticed a tendency recently towards very small 4 bets as they seem to have the same effect. So maybe raise to about 150k and fold if you get shoved on.

If the guy is more of a LAG i think it would definitely depend on whether you have position post flop. I think OOP I would 4bet a decent amount here to get some fold equity against his marginal 3 betting range. Still fold to a shove though.

If you are IP post flop then I like flatting a lot. For one you underrep your hand strenght which might give you some value on later streets and you wouldn't want to built too big a pot if you think you can take it away post flop anyway. Factor in how often you think he is going to c-bet any board texture though. If you think he c-bets his entire range you should be prepared to float and not check fold a flop you dont connect on. I doubt he would 2 barrel a bluff here against your stack so he might just shut down on the turn. This would mean you will have to bet the turn quite substantially. Depends if your comfortable doing that.

I would never open fold to a 3bet here though. and i mean NEVER lol. ur hand is still way to strong to give up to any 3bet.

I think you can fully neglect the final table bubble argument here. This is really more a spot where you should consider stack sizes rather than trying to put yourself into a good position for the FT. 50 BB at this stage allows for a lot of play and picking up blinds and antes is way more important than big pre flop all-in races.

just a few thoughts

taken in - as I said, I usually don't even bother with explaining myself or my plays but there had been some unqualified comments and I figured a reply in the same manner would be in order.