$250k GTD on stars facing a check raise by villain with history.

[Cottonbud]

We can definitely rule out AA, KK, AK, QQ, JJ type hands in Villains range he would definitely 3-bet these against me hoping to make me 4bet jam on him. I just think peeling would be tez and he is 1st to act and is just gonna jam the turn on us so often, then what do we do if the diamond gets there or an over like a Queen or a Jack/Ten hits. Pairs he could of made with his flush draw and now he has the best hand and we are pretty much guessing if our 3 is good.

[Rupert]

Was never planning on folding the turn... Just think it's more profitable to call flop call turn than just jam it in on the flop and fold out all his complete air hands (and it's fair to say there's a decent amount of these) or flip/be miles behind the rest of his range

[Cottonbud]

Ok so lets say we call the turn comes a blank non-scare card. Villain checks we have a pot sized bet left, we Jam it in? I don't mind this at all, but I'm just not sure if Villain is going to check often enough for this to be a profitable line.

[Rupert]

skolsuper makes decent point, I think given the read there's a good chance he just bombs it in on any turn to stop himself from getting bluffed again.  Nevertheless, jamming the flop is certainly the next best option IMO.  I think folding has to be out of the question!

[AlexMartin]

skolsuper makes decent point, I think given the read there's a good chance he just bombs it in on any turn to stop himself from getting bluffed again.  Nevertheless, jamming the flop is certainly the next best option IMO.  I think folding has to be out of the question!

its pretty crazy that if you posted this hand 5 years ago people would genuinely laugh at that statement,  nlh nearly a solved problem?

[action man]

dont know exactly why we taking huge risky high varience lines here vs a villain with history who is not folding much.

[AlexMartin]

dont know exactly why we taking huge risky high varience lines here vs a villain with history who is not folding much.

because edges are far smaller nowadays?

[mondatoo]

This may be incorrect thinking by me and I get that a lot of his range inc. air but with bottom pair if I think I'm ahead here I'm not looking to peel and then call any turn ? I'm shipping it in now and happy to take down a decent sized pot.I don't see why folding here is that bad when his range inc all small pairs plus draws that we're flipping against at best ? Look forward to responses of where I'm wrong in my thinking,and Ruperts to say I'm tez

Also if we are in villains shoes would we not c/r this board with kx as it looks like air a lot and it's a dry board vs aggro oppo who's capable of shipping it in light ?

[OJ]

it is a bit off topic as the main question is jam or fold but i think I would play a delayed c-bet here. I know people are going to say you lose value from draws not betting but BECAUSE villain will hardly fold most of his range here on the flop i think you are better of checking the flop behind and if the turn blanks you can still barrel and maybe even valuebet super thin on the river if he looks you up with strong A high type of hands.

i also don't quite see the reasoning behind bombing the flop "to lower variance" with bottom pair against a guy whose calling range has us absolutely crushed. Still think complete air with no draws and just overs will only make a small percentage of villains check raising range here.

Also, if you decide to peel, why wouldn't he shove basically any turn. He will hardly check fold his air and certainly shove the rest.

[NigDawG]

just dont think you will see him c/r his pairs. saw it mentioned earlier somewhere ITT he could have QQ, JJ, TT etc like wtf thats way off (he would almost certainly 3bet call these pre for a start). the only pair i could see him having is specifically  ,  or 

66 could be there but its bloody difficult making sets

his check raising range on this flop is basically made up of probs 15 combos of flush draws (only 3 of these have us crushed) and air. alot of air. i don't think a shove is even that close tbh.

[entim]

Bet more on the flop, we represent our hand better if someone wants to peel one with TTish hands, and mainly to reduce the frequency of his bluffraises (which you seem to be making this the case).   If this is your usual cbet then no need to bet much more.

And easy fold to his raise
 unless you're super sure this is a stone cold bluff, in which case you should jam your stack in, obviously to pick up the 20-30k in dead manies, but hey, your shove would be for ~32k total, so he ain't folding much if he has a piece, and a decent piece on this board has you in pretty bad shape

[OJ]

Bet more on the flop, we represent our hand better if someone wants to peel one with TTish hands, and mainly to reduce the frequency of his bluffraises (which you seem to be making this the case).   If this is your usual cbet then no need to bet much more.

And easy fold to his raise
 unless you're super sure this is a stone cold bluff, in which case you should jam your stack in, obviously to pick up the 20-30k in dead manies, but hey, your shove would be for ~32k total, so he ain't folding much if he has a piece, and a decent piece on this board has you in pretty bad shape

finally

[AlexMartin]

just dont think you will see him c/r his pairs. saw it mentioned earlier somewhere ITT he could have QQ, JJ, TT etc like wtf thats way off (he would almost certainly 3bet call these pre for a start). the only pair i could see him having is specifically  ,  or 

66 could be there but its bloody difficult making sets

his check raising range on this flop is basically made up of probs 15 combos of flush draws (only 3 of these have us crushed) and air. alot of air. i don't think a shove is even that close tbh.

+1

Bet more on the flop, we represent our hand better if someone wants to peel one with TTish hands, and mainly to reduce the frequency of his bluffraises (which you seem to be making this the case).   If this is your usual cbet then no need to bet much more.

And easy fold to his raise
 unless you're super sure this is a stone cold bluff, in which case you should jam your stack in, obviously to pick up the 20-30k in dead manies, but hey, your shove would be for ~32k total, so he ain't folding much if he has a piece, and a decent piece on this board has you in pretty bad shape

explain

[Dubai]

wow just wow at some of the posts

[GreekStein]

wow just wow at some of the posts

post what you think because ur a geeeeeeeeenius and still my hero