Why didn't my bluff work?

[SupaMonkey]

This hand may make me look stupid but i have been reading a book about bluffing and naturally, i have decided to 'speculate' a lot more in my recent games. Take a look at this, is this my fault?

Hand #32288504-1 at SnG-0015p (No Limit Hold'em Sit and Go)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 02/Jun/06 06:50:20
 
     chris2903 is at seat 0 with 1500.
     pegalynn is at seat 1 with 1500.
     ACESNH is at seat 2 with 1500.
     SupaMonkey is at seat 3 with 1500.
     genemarinacci is at seat 4 with 1500.
     matt2424 is at seat 5 with 1500.
     apaddycake is at seat 6 with 1500.
     Sly 1947 is at seat 7 with 1500.
     EZMmoney is at seat 8 with 1500.
     bigknocker05 is at seat 9 with 1500.
     The button is at seat 2.
     
     SupaMonkey posts the small blind of 10.
     genemarinacci posts the big blind of 20.

     chris2903:  -- --
     pegalynn:  -- --
     ACESNH:  -- --
     SupaMonkey:    
     genemarinacci:  -- --
     matt2424:  -- --
     apaddycake:  -- --
     Sly 1947:  -- --
     EZMmoney:  -- --
     bigknocker05:  -- --

Pre-flop:
 
          matt2424 calls.   
          apaddycake calls.   
          Sly 1947 folds. 
          EZMmoney calls.   
          bigknocker05 calls.   
          chris2903 folds.   
          pegalynn folds.   
          ACESNH folds.   
          SupaMonkey calls.   
          genemarinacci checks.   

Flop (board:      ):
 
          SupaMonkey checks.   
          genemarinacci checks.   
          matt2424 bets 20.   
          apaddycake calls.   
          EZMmoney raises to 200.
          bigknocker05 folds.   
          SupaMonkey re-raises to 600. 
          genemarinacci folds.   
          matt2424 folds.   
          apaddycake folds.   
          EZMmoney calls.   

Turn (board:   ):
 
          SupaMonkey goes all-in for 880.   
          EZMmoney goes all-in for 880.   

          Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:
 
               SupaMonkey shows .
               EZMmoney shows   .

Was this a bluff that was just never gonna work?

There was no preflop raise so i didn't expect to run into a hand as big as this but would you have called with just top pair?

Also, generally in this situation when he calls my reraise, is this a signal to put chips in, back off or does it just depend on the situation?

Thanks

[ACE2M]

it's not a bluff. I think you played it pretty badly, if he has an ace he is calling the turn bet other than he may have 2 pairs, trips or the only hand you can beat, a flush draw. Better to flat call here and hope to make your straight if you really want to play the hand, there is 6 people in the pot so his original re raise is very brave if he has a hand that isn't beating yours.

[SupaMonkey]

Thanks for your honesty.

Let me explain my 30 second thought process.

After a table full of limpers i decided that the most anyone had was an A-9 type hand (or a very strong hand). So i called because it was cheap.

Then the table checked it around and the guy on the end bet. I was pretty sure he wasn't bluffing because of the number of people in the pot. This is why i called my manoeuvre a bluff. I was pretty sure i didn't have the best hand and i probably should have let the hand go, but i thought i spied a bluffing opportunity and i didn't want to let it go.

Unless i was wrong about him bluffing, it was impossible that someone had slowplayed aces so i reraised to isolate myself with him. I thought that my reraise would look strong because of the number of people it had to get through even though i was fairly confident they would all fold easily (i.e. someone with an ace would have already bet). All call from someone OOP would have stopped me dead in my tracks here.

He then called my reraise. At the time i decided that he probably flat called because he wasn't feeling too confident about his hand but now i think that maybe it was also because i had made the pot too large and limited his moves. Anyway, i took his flat call as an invitation to take down the pot... and that was my quickest sng ever.

Is my thinking totally screwed up here or should i just learn to pick my bluffing spots more carefully? Maybe i just shouldn't bluff on the first hand of a tournament, get to know the players first etc.

[matt674]

You hit the nail on the head in the very last sentence - you can only bluff your opponent if you know the kind of hands your opponent is willing to lay down. Unless you know of the player from notes from a previous encounter then its probably best to wait a while to see how the player plays, if he turns out to be a calling station who thinks top pair good kicker is a monster hand then bluffing them isnt going to work........

[ifm]

IMO you need 3 factors when bluffing:
Firstly you need to be fairly sure of the opponents holding, weak ace, 2nd pair etc.
Secondly a scare card
Thirdly you need chips to force them to make that crucial decision.
A bet of 880 into a 1400ish pot with a queen kicker and no scare card is always going to get a caller.

P.S. i NEVER bluff

[SupaMonkey]

Thanks for the comments.

So my error was really making an assumption about the hand he had and the type of player he was.

From a technical perspective i think i shouldn't have tried to bluff OOP. Even heads up i would have been spending a lot on the bluff and i could save those chips for later.

[matt674]

P.S. i NEVER bluff

really?!?!? from a thread on the internet section a while back............. http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=5417.0

Great post Matt, one thing i'd add is don't get too carried away!!
I used to see how many raises i could get away with in a row at a new table (7 uncalled is my record ), the trouble is the 8th time i went out!!
Folks will just flat call monster hands against you and you will never know where you are in a pot, what hands your oppos have.
Also you may need to see a hand thru regardless of your holding because if you constantly fold to a reraise good players will continually do it to you.

[Hairydude]

Also-what was the limit you were playing at?? if it was a very low limit your playing its usually crazy to bluff as players always call with any old crap- especially at the start of the sit n go- later on with less players tho you'll usually get half decent players so its a bit easier to bluff

[Royal Flush]

I call you all day long there.

[Josh]

I would have called every day there, then laughed at you in the chat box afterwards.

[SupaMonkey]

Well it's easy to take the piss when i have shown the result, would you have called with A-10 here?

I thought his limp with A-Q was poor play.

[Bongo]

Everyone thinks it's poor play when they lose to someone who plays a hand differently them.

And in all honesty the all in on the turn is just chucking good chips after bad with only 3 outs.

[LeKnave]

Im just wondering what the buy in to this tournament was? at the top it says 0015p? in that case i dont think your getting a player off an ace in that sort of tourney.

The danger signs should have really gone off when EZMmoney calls you 600 re-reraise on the flop, you have to put him on a better hand here, and there is no justification for you hammering your last 800 in on the turn.

LeKnave

[SupaMonkey]

It was a $10 sng.

I mentioned before that i took his flat call as weakness. I was in the SB and i could have had anything. I expected him to have A-medium kicker and therefore have a difficult decision (if i had A-small kicker i could have had 2 pair or i could have had A-kicker higher than his, A-J for example).

Once i reraised on the flop i had to follow through. If i checked the turn he would have bet, i would have to fold and that would have been an even worse play imo. If he had reraised the flop i would have folded

Alternatively, i could have called his flop bet (no-one was likely to raise for the reasons i have already explained) and stop n go'd his river bet. With just top pair it would have been more difficult for him to call and i wouldn't have built the pot pre-bluff as much as i did.

The error was really deciding to attempt to bluff at all. I was OOP, trying to knock a guy off of a made hand and i knew nothing about him.