Another Tournament hand.

[WonderHorse]

Ok again im not sure with how I played this hand and would appreciate feedback.

Table is 9 handed recently there have been a few all-ins, one huge stack at the table and the rest are about 5-7 thousand.

Im fourth to act have 5700 in chips, with blinds at 100/200, recent action most raises have been making it 900 to play and have had no action from table unless the big stack has been getting involved.

Im dealt  , and raise making it 700 to play and get one caller immediately to my left who had been bemoaning his lack of hands and one player calling out of the big blind, no real read on either.

The flop comes,

       , im first to act I think for a second and bet out 1500.

At this point im happy with the flop I have the nut flush draw and two overs which may or may be good, there is also the chance im ahead. I considered checking and check raising any bet. My question here is would I be better going all in? Im willing to go with this hand at this point as unless someone has flopped a set im unlikely to be in completely dire straights and I figure this may be a good chance to gamble and double up.

Player to my right folds and the big blind announces raise, he makes it 2000 more to go- I count it out this would leave me with around 1200 left and I move all in which he calls.

Is this fairly straightforward play? Would I have been better going all in, or should I have laid the hand down?

As it doesnt matter much the opponent turned over  , I spiked a  on the turn and he hit the last Jack to make trips on the end.

[boldie]

it is fairly straightforward for me. Even though you know you are behind (it is quite clear he has the jack) you have 2 overcards anf the nutflush draw . that will do me.

I think you played it fine. the 1500 raise was slightly less then the pot which is fair enough. he reraised leaving you with 1200 so flatcalling is not an option. you know he will call your all in (as it's only 1200 more to him) and you know you have to hit but as the saying goes "You have more outs than God". If you want to win a tourney you have to take a chance on hands efvery now and again and this is about as good as it gets.

[matt674]

+ 2 7's to hit.

[boldie]

+ 2 7's to hit.

DOH!! DOH! and another DOH!

[matt674]

I think the first thing you have to establish before you decide how much to bet is how good your opponent is at laying down a hand. If he's a calling station it doesn't matter if you bet the minimum of 200 or the entire 5000 - he's going to call regardless if he's hit any part of that flop.

By raising 1500 you are telling your opponent that you are pot commited to call if he reraises all in as his reraise of 2000 means you are getting nearly 4-1 on your money. If he only has a bare top pair then you are in good shape with 2 overs and the nut flush draw, even if he's flopped a set to take your overs out of the equation you still have a flush and backdoor straight draw so still the correct odds to make the call.

Like boldie says, i see nothing wrong with the play.

[M3boy]

I would of check raised that flop all in.

[totalise]

it is fairly straightforward for me. Even though you know you are behind (it is quite clear he has the jack) you have 2 overcards anf the nutflush draw . that will do me.

I think you played it fine. the 1500 raise was slightly less then the pot which is fair enough. he reraised leaving you with 1200 so flatcalling is not an option. you know he will call your all in (as it's only 1200 more to him) and you know you have to hit but as the saying goes "You have more outs than God". If you want to win a tourney you have to take a chance on hands efvery now and again and this is about as good as it gets.

if you know you have to hit, then why is flat-calling not an option? If he puts you in on the turn, then you have more then adequate odds to call, the upside is that very infrequently it gets checked through on the turn and if you miss you still have a few chips left to come-back with.

Also given the pot size (8700) if you make your hand on the turn, then its almost impossible that he will fold (it will be 1200 more and the villain will be getting 9900:1200 odds), so you give him a chance to fold if you make a pair which given the pot size you should (probably) be happy about, and the fact that any club you make will be a non ace or king, he is gonna call if you make your flush close to every time.

Obviously getting your chips in on the flop is infinite times better then folding, but in spots where you have a draw, zero FE, and know that you need to hit to win , it makes most sense to just call down and hope to see a free turn. Thats what I do anyways.

[boldie]

it is fairly straightforward for me. Even though you know you are behind (it is quite clear he has the jack) you have 2 overcards anf the nutflush draw . that will do me.

I think you played it fine. the 1500 raise was slightly less then the pot which is fair enough. he reraised leaving you with 1200 so flatcalling is not an option. you know he will call your all in (as it's only 1200 more to him) and you know you have to hit but as the saying goes "You have more outs than God". If you want to win a tourney you have to take a chance on hands efvery now and again and this is about as good as it gets.

if you know you have to hit, then why is flat-calling not an option? If he puts you in on the turn, then you have more then adequate odds to call, the upside is that very infrequently it gets checked through on the turn and if you miss you still have a few chips left to come-back with.

Also given the pot size (8700) if you make your hand on the turn, then its almost impossible that he will fold (it will be 1200 more and the villain will be getting 9900:1200 odds), so you give him a chance to fold if you make a pair which given the pot size you should (probably) be happy about, and the fact that any club you make will be a non ace or king, he is gonna call if you make your flush close to every time.

Obviously getting your chips in on the flop is infinite times better then folding, but in spots where you have a draw, zero FE, and know that you need to hit to win , it makes most sense to just call down and hope to see a free turn. Thats what I do anyways.

I don't like that play at all. you are quite far from the money and a flatcall would only leave you with 6x the BB.
you will have the BB coming up fairly shortly so you'd only have a few hands to find something better and TBH it doesn't get much better then this.

It's either all in or (God forbid cus I wouldn't do it but I guess it could be justified) a fold. flatcalling is about the worst thing you can do IMO.

[totalise]

I'll make it shorter:

If you just call, you will win the same as when you go all in (due to the pot size).. whereas if you just call, sometimes you get a free turn and can fold the river if you miss (because you have to improve your hand from Ace high to win)

Obviously you aren't folding the turn if you miss, so I cant really see a downside to it. Granted, there isn't much upside because he sticks you in almost all the time, but the small times that he doesn't, you are left with 1200 chips, which is preferable to being left with zero.. In fact you can argue that the 1200 chips not lost are worth far more then the 1200 chips you might not win if you hit, given the fact that your 1200 remaining chips are so valuable (because they keep you in the tournament)

As for this:

you will have the BB coming up fairly shortly so you'd only have a few hands to find something better and TBH it doesn't get much better then this.

it makes it seem like you have gotten the idea that I think you should fold somewhere... thats not the case. This is as good as it comes, you are going to showdown with this hand 100% of the time, my point is that it might well be better to try and get to showdown without being allin.. for reasons explained above and in the prev post.

[boldie]

I'll make it shorter:

If you just call, you will win the same as when you go all in (due to the pot size).. whereas if you just call, sometimes you get a free turn and can fold the river if you miss (because you have to improve your hand from Ace high to win)

Obviously you aren't folding the turn if you miss, so I cant really see a downside to it. Granted, there isn't much upside because he sticks you in almost all the time, but the small times that he doesn't, you are left with 1200 chips, which is preferable to being left with zero.. In fact you can argue that the 1200 chips not lost are worth far more then the 1200 chips you might not win if you hit, given the fact that your 1200 remaining chips are so valuable (because they keep you in the tournament)

As for this:

you will have the BB coming up fairly shortly so you'd only have a few hands to find something better and TBH it doesn't get much better then this.

it makes it seem like you have gotten the idea that I think you should fold somewhere... thats not the case. This is as good as it comes, you are going to showdown with this hand 100% of the time, my point is that it might well be better to try and get to showdown without being allin.. for reasons explained above and in the prev post.

OK I misunderstood you then. fair enough. you could indeed flatcall with the option of sticking your chips in on the turn (or if you miss having a shot at a free river if oppo checks) I don't ussually see this happen so I would stick my chips in immediatly...but can understand where you're coming from.

[tantrum]

The only problem with leaving yourself 1200 is that you will be crippled and your m will be around 4 so not so sure it is a good idea to fold on the flop.

You have decided to go coin flip you might as well call it for the remaining 1200.

I'm not risking my stack on coin flip situtations early in the tourney but maybe this is the reason why when i end up at the final tables very rarely I am the chip leader.

[SupaMonkey]

Boldie, you need to buy glasses.

The point is that if you bet that last 1200 you will get called but if the action goes check-check on the turn and the river is a blank, you can save 1200. If you hit you can bet your 1200 and get paid.

[Rookie (Rodney)]

it is fairly straightforward for me. Even though you know you are behind (it is quite clear he has the jack) you have 2 overcards anf the nutflush draw . that will do me.

I think you played it fine. the 1500 raise was slightly less then the pot which is fair enough. he reraised leaving you with 1200 so flatcalling is not an option. you know he will call your all in (as it's only 1200 more to him) and you know you have to hit but as the saying goes "You have more outs than God". If you want to win a tourney you have to take a chance on hands efvery now and again and this is about as good as it gets.

if you know you have to hit, then why is flat-calling not an option? If he puts you in on the turn, then you have more then adequate odds to call, the upside is that very infrequently it gets checked through on the turn and if you miss you still have a few chips left to come-back with.

Also given the pot size (8700) if you make your hand on the turn, then its almost impossible that he will fold (it will be 1200 more and the villain will be getting 9900:1200 odds), so you give him a chance to fold if you make a pair which given the pot size you should (probably) be happy about, and the fact that any club you make will be a non ace or king, he is gonna call if you make your flush close to every time.

Obviously getting your chips in on the flop is infinite times better then folding, but in spots where you have a draw, zero FE, and know that you need to hit to win , it makes most sense to just call down and hope to see a free turn. Thats what I do anyways.

 

[boldie]

Boldie, you need to buy glasses.

The point is that if you bet that last 1200 you will get called but if the action goes check-check on the turn and the river is a blank, you can save 1200. If you hit you can bet your 1200 and get paid.

yeah that's kindoff what I meant...but I'm getting older then Tikay and my mind just goes or atleast the coherent part of it.

[Moskvich]

Very good points totalise, thanks, will try and remember to start doing this.