English cricket

[booder]

Another embarrassing England performance.
Time for major changes, the first being Vaughan.

[Ironside]

think with my battrick performance i should submit my CV?

[TightEnd]

Flintoff is now an embarrassment with the bat.

Needs to knuckle down big time

With the ball he remains superb

the side relies on two batsmen, KP and Collingwood

with the ball, there is no match winner

just a second rate one day team, odd performances aside

[Longy]

The one day situation needs looking at, we are struggling to be competitive against any of the top nations. We have too many passengers in the team, only Collingwood, KP and bell (at times) have shown any competence with the bat. Flintoff is our only top class one day bowler, Nixon's contribution with the gloves has been alright but he is no long term solution. Apart from Bopara showing a bit of promise we have half a team at best.

Solutions to this are difficult as with the exception of the last Ashes the test team has peformed quite well in recent years and i would rather a successful test team than one day team. So do you seperate the two, you can't have two different coaches surely.

So its decision time has Fletcher taken as far as he can? If Vaughan has to go, who replaces him?

The answer to the first one im really not sure, I would advocate Vaughan calling time on his ODI career and having Collingwood as the new captain. I still think Vaughan is still one of the best test captains out there and he may justify his place with some scores in the test arena.

[GlasgowBandit]

I'm not all that qualified to discuss cricket - but hey its never stopped me on any other subject.

I think Vaughan has had a terrible world cup and just doesn't cut it at the top end of the order.

I also think that lad Bopara should move up the order - he seems able to produce decent scores but its often a bit too late by the time he gets in. it will be th

I would agree though I think it was an embarrassment. Especially after the talk last week with the confidence that all England needed was 3 victories in a row and that was them in the final.  I have been dissapointed by the whole tournament to be honest.  I got a bet on Sri Lanka at the beginning of the tourney but now it sems that the Ozzies just have to stay there to win. 

[Bazzaboy]

They are shambolic and clueless. Every innings against an established side has been virtually identical.  Lose 3 early wickets, make a recovery until around the 25over mark, then they try to increase the runrate and a batting collapse follows.  They do not have a clue how to play overs 25-40 and the less said about the top order the better.

Although the do lack genuine ability in that they only have 3 top class one day performers (KP, Collingwood and Flintoff) and one of them is woefully out of form with the bat. 

[ripple11]

 Watching in disbelief.........

[Ironside]

what odds will i get on a tie?

[AndrewT]

Apart from the three months before a World Cup, we quite simply don't give a toss about ODIs. When the England tours start, or the touring teams come here, all the focus and attention is on the tests. The ODIs are just something to fill the grounds and make a bit of money - it's not as if any of us remember the scores in one-day series, do we?

It would have been an absolute travesty for England to qualify for the semi-finals - indeed it would have been bad for cricket.

Vaughan and Bell are simply not one-day players - they should stick to Tests.

Flintoff should have been given a go at opening - he can't do any worse than where he is now.

Mahmood is simply a luxury we can't afford. Brilliant if the conditions and his attitude are just right, horrible run-spewer when they're not.

It's good we've been absolutely creamed - there's no 'we were unlucky' stone they can hide under. Huge changes will be required and will happen now.

[Ironside]

i think england was unlucky

if the pitch was better and suited out team the batmens could bat and the bowlers could bowl and the fielders field then england would of won this match at a canter but england never get the rub of the green huh

[Bongo]

I think I'd like to see Bopara opening - he seems quite good, knows when to attack without going overboard.

I think Bell could do OK in the one dayers if he could just play his natural game and try and bat through the innings with more attacking players with him, he had good partnerships with Pietersen against the Aussies and Sri Lanka and didn't look in too bad shape today until he tried to force some runs onto the scoreboard.

Vaughan is just a liability opening. He just eats up valuable balls and then gets out cheap putting a lot of pressure on those who bat after him.

[Bazzaboy]

Flintoff should have been given a go at opening - he can't do any worse than where he is now.

I agree with that.  Openers wernt getting any runs and Flintoff wasn't getting any runs at 6 so they had nothing to lose.  Bopara as Bongo said would have been another alternative.  But no much better to stick with 3 plodders who keep getting out cheaply at the top of the order.

[Moskvich]

They were really, really bad - but I don't think you can really make major changes. Who do you go to instead?

Clearly the batting's hugely fallible, but I think you have to bear in mind how much difference one or two changes can make to the whole look and balance of a side.

If you put an in-form Trescothick at the top of this order instead of Strauss/Joyce I think it makes a massive difference. You've got a fast runscorer at the top, which takes the pressure off Vaughan and Bell, who can play more like their normal games. It also takes the pressure off Pietersen, who doesn't think he has to hold the whole thing together. At the moment he thinks he has to stay in because no one else will, but also knows he has to score fast - because no one else will. And the nurdlers like Collingwood and Bopara can do their usual thing because they also don't always have to up the rate and bat through to the end. Then if that all comes together Flintoff is coming in with ten over left instead of 15 or 20, which makes a huge difference to him too.

Seems to me the main problem at the moment is that no-one's really doing their job - but that's partly because they don't know what their job is any more, because no-one else is doing their job!

Doesn't take that much to put that right - once one bit clicks into place the rest can follow quite easily -  and to be honest I think Vaughan's probably still the man for the job.