Jacks, and how to avoid them?

[I, Zimbra]

My first hand posted on this forum; I am wondering (like so many other posts here), if this mess I got myself into tonight was avoidable or not.

Last 8 of the $25 Blue Square MTT tonight. Top 6 get paid. I am 3rd in chips atm, but the blinds are so high that there's not much play in the game; most of the time the play is either all-in or pass. I have been variously 2nd-4th in chips since the start of the final table, as blinds are shuffled from one player to another.

'Tanyasly' was the chip leader coming into the final table, and earlier she had made a couple of small raises, both of which were re-raised behind her, forcing her to pass. [One of those re-raises was by me, with A-K.] Since then, she has limited herself to two or three (oversized!) all-in preflop moves, none of which have been called.

[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Hand Start.
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Seat 1 : Animal Uk has $9,705
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Seat 2 : zimbra has $12,130
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Seat 3 : mikekimpton has $6,860
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Seat 4 : twignbud has $11,940
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Seat 5 : manicme has $8,680
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Seat 6 : tanyasly has $17,945
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Seat 7 : pdee has $6,560
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Seat 8 : The Jagster has $20,180
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Animal Uk is the dealer.
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : zimbra posted small blind.
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : mikekimpton posted big blind.
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Game [131] started with 8 players.
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Jan 15 22:19:37] : Seat 2 : zimbra has
[Jan 15 22:19:50] : Stakes: 600/1,200 Current level: 9 Level up in: 3 min.
[Jan 15 22:19:52] : twignbud has 10 seconds to respond.
[Jan 15 22:19:58] : twignbud folded.
[Jan 15 22:19:58] : manicme folded.
[Jan 15 22:20:05] : tanyasly called 1,200 and raised 16,745 and is All-in
[Jan 15 22:20:06] : pdee folded.
[Jan 15 22:20:08] : The Jagster folded.
[Jan 15 22:20:11] : Animal Uk folded.
[Jan 15 22:20:23] : zimbra called 11,530 and is All-in
[Jan 15 22:20:23] : mikekimpton folded.
[Jan 15 22:20:24] : Showdown!
 
[Jan 15 22:20:24] : Seat 2 : zimbra has
[Jan 15 22:20:26] : Seat 6 : tanyasly has
[Jan 15 22:20:38] : Board cards [   ]
 
[Jan 15 22:20:38] : tanyasly has Pair: Queens
[Jan 15 22:20:38] : zimbra has Pair: Jacks
[Jan 15 22:20:38] : tanyasly wins 25,460 with Pair: Queens
[Jan 15 22:20:45] : Hand is over.


Could I / Should I have passed the jacks, or not?

Thanks,
Zim

[jimjamjay]

I had a similar situation tonight when trying to win an EPT seat.  I had the other guy covered with 10k in chips to spare he raised I held JJ and decided to call - he flipped up AA.  Thankfully I survived and won a seat - however it taught me a lesson that I have learned over and over - J's is not that strong a holding when someone has acted in front of you.  You have 3 higher pairs and the combinations of Ax Kx and Qx which can catch a card and bust you.

In future if I face a reraise when holding J's I will pass.  Its hard to do but I reckon in the long run its the correct play.

The other thing against you is that he has you outchipped - which would play a deciding factor for me and I would fold.

As interested as you to hear others thoughts.

[ifm]

I had a similar situation tonight when trying to win an EPT seat.  I had the other guy covered with 10k in chips to spare he raised I held JJ and decided to call - he flipped up AA.  Thankfully I survived and won a seat - however it taught me a lesson that I have learned over and over - J's is not that strong a holding when someone has acted in front of you.  You have 3 higher pairs and the combinations of Ax Kx and Qx which can catch a card and bust you.

In future if I face a reraise when holding J's I will pass.  Its hard to do but I reckon in the long run its the correct play.

The other thing against you is that he has you outchipped - which would play a deciding factor for me and I would fold.

As interested as you to hear others thoughts.

Can't add to that, good post.
I rate JJ along with A10 as the two hands most likely to get you into trouble in poker, they are both very difficult to play post flop so you are tempted to raise big with them and if called you are in a world of hurt.

[AndrewT]

It all depends on whether you think the other player will make that kind of bet with TT or a lower pair.

If you put your opponent's range of hands as AA-JJ, AK-AJ, then it's almost exactly a 50/50 call (your chances of winning are almost the same as the odds you are getting from the pot). Add in smaller pairs and it becomes a clear call.

From what you describe of her play, I'm almost certain she'd make this move with smaller Aces and lower pairs, so you made the right call.

[NoflopsHomer]

I'll actually play JJ the same as AK a lot of the time, I'll re-raise with them, but won't call a re-raise with them.

[Royal Flush]

I call Zimbra. Cant really get away from JJ with the game that shallow.

[I, Zimbra]

Thanks for your replies. There were several factors that induced me to call...

jimjam -- I did consider passing the hand, and indeed if the blinds had been smaller with respect to the stacks, I absolutely would have folded - just as you say, to avoid tangling with one of the few people who could bust me. But the blinds are so high that even as 3rd/4th in chips there's no guarantee I can fold myself into the money. All it takes is a few hands of the shorter stacks stealing my blinds with all-in moves and the situation will be reversed; and then I will be cursing the fact that I didn't play jacks when I picked it up.

Andrew -- this is a good point; I also observed that Tanya had made a few small raises and had been re-raised every time - forcing her to fold. Since those small moves had failed to work, she was resorting to over-sized all-in moves, which I took to be her way of trying to defend herself  against her possibly being outplayed/outbullied or whatever. So I reasoned there was a greater than average chance that she would simply "all-in" with any reasonable, solid, yet unspectacular hand - e.g. 88, 99 or AJ.. maybe even A-10, A-9 suited or a smaller pair like 66 (I have notes on her from encountering her in $5 STT tables, and I know for a fact that moves with hands of this sort are common in those arenas.)

All in all, I was annoyed at my bad luck that I found a big hand when she found a monster - bubbles and bubble+1s always hurt, but if she'd shown me pocket sevens I would have been well-chuffed 

[Jamier-Host]

I am 3rd in chips atm, but the blinds are so high that there's not much play in the game; most of the time the play is either all-in or pass.

You hinting that you want the blinds levels up to 15 mins??!!   

[mystery721]

easy fold for me, wouldnt think twice about it