should i call here considering the pot odds

[Ironside]

PokerStars Game #8968227968:  Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/03/18 - 16:42:08 (ET)
Table 'Sagittarius' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Kaiward ($26.90 in chips)
Seat 3: Fabus ($53.55 in chips)
Seat 4: MiStY_fr ($38.15 in chips)
Seat 5: Gregory06 ($49.45 in chips)
Seat 6: VFB1281 ($12.90 in chips)
Seat 7: Endomorpheus ($51.70 in chips)
Seat 8: nonna3 ($24.20 in chips)
Seat 9: Ironside ($49.95 in chips)
VFB1281: posts small blind $0.25
Endomorpheus: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ ]
nonna3: calls $0.50
Ironside: calls $0.50
Kaiward: folds
Fabus: folds
MiStY_fr: folds
Gregory06: calls $0.50
VFB1281: calls $0.25
Endomorpheus: checks
*** FLOP *** [ ]
VFB1281: checks
dkind611 joins the table at seat #2
Endomorpheus: bets $2
nonna3: raises $6 to $8
Ironside: raises $10 to $18
Gregory06: folds
VFB1281: folds
Endomorpheus: raises $33.20 to $51.20 and is all-in
nonna3: calls $15.70 and is all-in


i asked the question and got an emphatic reply someone if not both had a flush

but did i ask the wrong question? i was now getting offered 3-1 and i was now just getting the correct odds to call

should i have made a cheap raise and was i really getting the correct odds to call?

[Indestructable]

I hate flops that are suited (unless I have the flush of course). My view is that you have asked the question by making the raise and would be right to fold in these circumstances.

[totalise]

dont ever fold here

[Sheriff Fatman]

dont ever fold here

I agree.  You've got to call now.

There's no way you should make that raise there if you aren't going to follow it up with your stack.

[Smart Money]

You have to call, but you generally shouldn't be re-raising on a single suited flop with a set- unless it's against a pre-flop raiser who continues to show aggression on the flop.

In full-handed cash, you're often faced with this flop decision: "Should I price out draws at the risk of paying off hands that are already ahead of me?"

The most common example of this is when you've raised pre-flop with AA, and three callers see a dangerous draw-heavy flop with you. The temptation is to continue to bet big on the flop/turn to force out the drawers but generally this is a mistake because you've just given massive implied odds to anyone flopping a set.

In your example, it's better to give a cheap card to someone with the nut flush draw than to build the pot and risk being priced out yourself when re-raised. (The original raiser would most likely have re-raised anyway here even if you hadn't re-raised- but he may have just called hoping to check/raise the turn which would have been better for you as it would allow you to see the turn cheaply.)

[Swordpoker]

I say yes, go ahead and call. It's very possible someone had the made flush but no certainty. You could, for example, be up against top pair, 2 pair or a flush draw. If you are up against a made flush, you still have 7 outs to make your full house or 4 of a kind. Because there is another guy in the pot lets discount your outs to 6. That's still gives you a 25% chance of beating a made flush.

So, what percentage chance do you think there is that neither of them has a made flush?

You are paying $33 to win $126 (incl. the cash you are putting in) which is almost 4:1 so you almost have the odds to beat a made flush. But if you think there is at least a small chance that neither of them have the flush then calling is a profitable move.

[booder]

proberly

[Ironside]

proberly

have you never heard of spell check its probably

[Smart Money]

I say yes, go ahead and call. It's very possible someone had the made flush but no certainty. You could, for example, be up against top pair, 2 pair or a flush draw. If you are up against a made flush, you still have 7 outs to make your full house or 4 of a kind. Because there is another guy in the pot lets discount your outs to 6. That's still gives you a 25% chance of beating a made flush.

So, what percentage chance do you think there is that neither of them has a made flush?

You are paying $33 to win $126 (incl. the cash you are putting in) which is almost 4:1 so you almost have the odds to beat a made flush. But if you think there is at least a small chance that neither of them have the flush then calling is a profitable move.

Your odds are even better than this. You have 7 outs to improve on the turn, but you then have 10 outs to improve on the river. This gives you a 2:1 (33%) chance of beating a made flush.

Although if, as you say, you are paying $33 to win $126 (including your $33) then this is almost 3:1, not 4:1, as you don't count the $33 as part of your potential winnings.

[Indestructable]

looks like I am the only one to fold here.What happened next?

[Ironside]

what happened next isnt important

i was up against 2 made flushes

but the result inst important its the odds on the play in a cash game i was after

[JungleCat03]

by the time you have to make your decision, you're calling your last $31.45 into a pot of 93.15$

(.5+.5+.5+.5+2+8+18+18+31.45(his raise is more than your remaining chips)+15.70)

Assuming you know they have the A2s and K3s, you have 35.55% equity in this pot

http://twodimes.net/poker/?g=h&b=Qs+7s+8s&d=&h=Ks+3s%0D%0AAs+2s%0D%0A7c+7d

So putting in your last 31.45$, you average a return of 44.30$, a profit of $12.85.

In reality your equity will be higher than this since you will run into an assortment of other hands such as nut flush draw and pair, lower set, str8 and flush draw/ pair and fd combos and other such hands. Of course occasionally hands like top set that have you crushed.

So this isn't the best case scenario but you make an easy profit on the call. So like totalise said you can't ever fold in this spot in a cash game if you like money !

edited *** got numbers wrong lke a donk***

[Ironside]

amazing thing was the bigger stack had only a T high flush smaller stack jack high

not sure i would have pushed here with a T high flush with a reraise and a rereaise in front of me

[The_Diamond]

The reraise to 18 is really bad. It's almost a minimum raise and achieves nothing against a player who has already shown a lot of strength. If you were ever worried about not going all the way then cold calling and hoping the board pairs is a better option, otherwise raise more. i would make it $25 to go and naturally call an all in.

Incidentally, you should of course be absolutely delighted to hold a set against against 2 made flushes with 2 cards to come in a cash game, as on average you make a very nice profit from that situation.