KK Conundrum

[gatso]

So you've just started and have no info on anyone but you want to see a flop were his range is aa/kk/ak/aq/qq(questionable).

yes please. we are a long way ahead of that range, about a 2/1 fave. by folding you're narrowing his range to a single hand which is v v weak without a real good tell like him having seethrough cards or something.

If we re-raise we still end up playing against the only hand that has us crushed pre but our oppo may lay down some hands that we have crushed

[cambo]

so its went 200-600-call the 600 re raise to 2400, if u re raise here again ur aswell turning ur hand face up and makeing aq ak fold , you want max value out this hand

[geeforce1]

Thanks for posting this tighty.With only a 1/4 of my stack committed here i would seriously condsider folding here.The reason i'd fold is i just don't think he could have any other hand here than aces,would he seriously 4bet it with ak/aq or even qq this early on in the tourney.Also imo i don't like how the guy who pushes plays this at all if he does have aces i don't see why he'd make that play with the nuts(i say nuts as surely nobody could still be in the hand with j10) and i would have probably bet it but not as much.

i guess that its your hand. can i ask why were u calling the 4bet pf? was it b/c 1) you read ep raiser for AA and wanted to set mine or 2)was it to trap and open up is range to stacking him on a low flop Vs his QQ JJ or even TT? or 3)other?

my thoughts to 3 situations

1) i think in level 1 of this tourny u cant set mine for 2.4k with 10k effective, its just not profitable. if the flop comes 8 high and he pushes flop what would be your play? ur effectively only losing to AA, so i prefer a fold pf than to set mine fold. (btw if this is ur play pf you can sort of argue a fold on the flop as u put him on aces so u effectively missed ur set, but in that case i think ur play PF is poor and -ev overall)
2) if ur plan pf is to trap with KK (not a horrible idea) then u have no decision at all on the flop. u still lose to AA so u were going broke regardless. i play the hand like this sometimes.
3) u tell me....

gee

[mondatoo]

Thanks for posting this tighty.With only a 1/4 of my stack committed here i would seriously condsider folding here.The reason i'd fold is i just don't think he could have any other hand here than aces,would he seriously 4bet it with ak/aq or even qq this early on in the tourney.Also imo i don't like how the guy who pushes plays this at all if he does have aces i don't see why he'd make that play with the nuts(i say nuts as surely nobody could still be in the hand with j10) and i would have probably bet it but not as much.

i guess that its your hand. can i ask why were u calling the 4bet pf? was it b/c 1) you read ep raiser for AA and wanted to set mine or 2)was it to trap and open up is range to stacking him on a low flop Vs his QQ JJ or even TT? or 3)other?

my thoughts to 3 situations

1) i think in level 1 of this tourny u cant set mine for 2.4k with 10k effective, its just not profitable. if the flop comes 8 high and he pushes flop what would be your play? ur effectively only losing to AA, so i prefer a fold pf than to set mine fold. (btw if this is ur play pf you can sort of argue a fold on the flop as u put him on aces so u effectively missed ur set, but in that case i think ur play PF is poor and -ev overall)
2) if ur plan pf is to trap with KK (not a horrible idea) then u have no decision at all on the flop. u still lose to AA so u were going broke regardless. i play the hand like this sometimes.
3) u tell me....

gee

It wasn't my hand m8 just i asked tighty the blonde who it was to post it and tighty done it for me as he was offline.

I would agree set mining would be a bad play here i am not keen as i've said on the flat call pre... i think i've said all i can on my thoughts on this hand.I'm suprised i'm one of the only people suggesting we can get away from this.

[geeforce1]

i could pass pf, i could pass on a Axx flop, but if i call with kk then i am going broke on a low flop. this is essentially a low flop as u still on really losing to aces

[cambo]

just to add to my short post , the reason im flatting his 2.4k bet is to trap him the only flop thats gonna scare me is axx , the amount of times i see players making this 2.4k bet with ak aq jj qq even 1010! is a wayyy higher percentage then them having aa , even more so cos of the overcaller , with that flop or even an 8 high flop its the same thing ur going broke if he has aces but thats a chance im willing to take even if its the first hand

[mondatoo]

I think e1 is folding on a Axx flop tbh.

[SnipeR]

I'm going broke 100% of the time here.

I also like AA players shove on the flop here. PF action suggests at least 1 opponent has KK, AK, AQ and it's likely these holdings stack off here

+1

[Royal Flush]

I'm suprised i'm one of the only people suggesting we can get away from this. make a negative ev play

FYP

This is a low stakes game with a ridic structure, most of the people playing will never have played before in this structure, add to this they are below average standard i can't see how you can narrow them to AA.

I've seen people flip over JJ in this spot in events where the juice is more than the buyin of this comp

[TightEnd]

There is no juice

The "ridic" structure is most appreciated by the recreational players who never get to play deep stack live games in casinos for that money, and with added value

The standard: your comment is subjective. I beg to differ, sure there are some learners but there are plenty of v good players too

[Royal Flush]

There is no juice

The "ridic" structure is most appreciated by the recreational players who never get to play deep stack live games in casinos for that money, and with added value

The standard: your comment is subjective. I beg to differ, sure there are some learners but there are plenty of v good players too

I never said there was juice, i meant ridic as in redic deep rather than just bad.

Judging my the number of APAT hand posts that used to get stuck up on here after the events i am going to stick to my guns and say the standard is awful.

[cambo]

what was the result of this hand anyway i take it the guy did have aces?

[TightEnd]

what was the result of this hand anyway i take it the guy did have aces?

yes mate

[geeforce1]

what was the result of this hand anyway i take it the guy did have aces?

yes mate

w/e the standard the hand analysis should not start on the flop. its a PF decision. once u have called PF then IMO its busto time on that board.

[cambo]

yeah deffo thats what i was saying to you last night, too many times the people i play e.g ur standard casino player have hands that i crush so i dont see any need to re raise his 2.4k bet and let hi pass aq ak jj type hands, just wondered what the outcome was if he did have aces