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Cottonbud
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« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2010, 04:41:30 PM »

Yeah. I was thinking about that too. And what I might lead with and it's the same hands as you mentioned. But if you ever say the word tonne in a PHA post again I'm defo deleting you off Msn. Thats what gay americans say u mincer!
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Dubai
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« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2010, 06:15:36 PM »

As played fold the river.

I just go ahead and raise the flop, his stack size looks perfect and you can get him to make a mistake on the flop, its a lot harder for him to make a huge mistake on later streets. You have to have some sort of balanced range for raising this flop when getting led into, you become too exploitable if your range doesnt include our hand here, which is bang at the top. But the key is, people are far more likely to bet/3bet allin with a combo draw that we crush than they our to 3 barrel with it. You also have 60k even if you double him up and our hand can never be in bad shape with his bet/3bet getting it in range, so just raise the flop and allow him to make a mistake against our perceived range.
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Dubai
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« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2010, 06:17:41 PM »

And please never turn your hand into a bluff and shove the river here even if it was 60k effective stacks, you will get called literally every time villain is value betting ANY better hand, no-one will ever believe your line.
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NigDawG
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« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2010, 08:46:37 PM »

And please never turn your hand into a bluff and shove the river here even if it was 60k effective stacks, you will get called literally every time villain is value betting ANY better hand, no-one will ever believe your line.

truth be told i'd probs just raise the turn with all my bluffs/flushes but i dont think its that unbelievable to take this line with the nuts. the only bluffs i think i'd ever have on river would be like AcTx, AcQx, AcKx, AcAx, which villain would probs find really unlikely for me to do with these hands (with exception of AcTx). i know that my range is narrow but you can still get ridic amounts of folds when putting him to the test for his tourney life in a comp like this, and having the nut card is sooooo valuable. i'd be expecting him to fold all hands worse than a flush, and specifically the QT/KQ hands which i think are the most likely of his holdings.
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Christopher Brammer
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« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2010, 09:44:36 PM »

As played fold the river.

I just go ahead and raise the flop, his stack size looks perfect and you can get him to make a mistake on the flop, its a lot harder for him to make a huge mistake on later streets. You have to have some sort of balanced range for raising this flop when getting led into, you become too exploitable if your range doesnt include our hand here, which is bang at the top. But the key is, people are far more likely to bet/3bet allin with a combo draw that we crush than they our to 3 barrel with it. You also have 60k even if you double him up and our hand can never be in bad shape with his bet/3bet getting it in range, so just raise the flop and allow him to make a mistake against our perceived range.

we crush his combo draw hands but vs the trade off getting it in vs his QT/sets/flushes which he will probably bet/3b all in. we are drawing to the nuts and never in bad shape but even so its not the best spot when he actually has it. personally i doubt he would even be taking the bet/3b all in line with a combo draw since none of them contain the ....and my perceived range has the smacked all over it, along with the Q/T or straight blockers since im unlikely to have A2o-A7o ever either. he is virtually never getting it in with even flipping equity unless i have precisely QT myself, a hand which i am certain to bet if checked to.

i agree he might bet the flop with these combo hands but i thought he was capable enough to know that getting it in with them was terrible. as such i think when we do get it all in on the flop he has the best of it almost always.
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Christopher Brammer
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« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2010, 02:10:15 AM »

wp op
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2010, 02:27:45 PM »

I probably call river. Seems like a very thin range of hands that do this for value and we've got near the top of our range here. Guess we could say that if he bluffs he bets small cos he's mostly trying to move you off the bare , but with this board there's a very high chance you have a good pair with it and he's probably figured that out and so gone for a larger bluff. The reason I say that there's a thin range that do this for value is that he possibly pot controls anything less than a flush at some point, and this would be a pretty thin value bet with anything less than top 2 on the river.

how wides his bluffing range? what's it composed of?

Quote from: titaniumbean
imo if a good player is leading into another good player on a wet board, then they both have wide ranges.

Mostly I think opponent turns a lot of made hands into bluffs, AQ AJ AT QJ TJ T9 maybe. A few combos there. Not saying he definitely has one of these hands or plays any of them this way, just saying, you know.

Twas why I was asking James, I value your inputs!
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