HU Hyper Hands

[shipitgood]

Hand 1) We have  OTB  500 chips villain has 500 chips

Reads villain is tight basic ABC, but does call down to light.

We min raise, villain calls. Blinds 10/20.

Flop; 

Villian Checks, I continuation bet a whole lot decided just to check here.

Turn is  , we bet 60 (pot is 80) Villian Calls. (He hardly ever has a Queen here. Would have preferred a bet of 50-55

River is  (Pot is 200)

We bet 100 OTR, Villian Calls. Don't think he has many aces here, though he could have. He also doesn't have a bluffing range, he will check behind any 2 6 8.

Thoughts on River bet size, 2 much? Quite like betting about 80 on the river.

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Hand 2

Read Villian is pretty fishy. We have 550 at start of the hand, they have 450

Blinds 10/20

We have  OTB

Min raise to 40, call. Pot is 80

Flop

 

Villian Checks, I check, don't really mind the check here given 3 clubs


Turn is 

Check, we bet 40 villain calls (pot is 160)

River is 

Villian Checks, we move all in.

[Rexas]

Hand 1 always c betting flop against the type of villain described, it's a hyper turbo, try and win chips. As for turn and river half pot - check seems like a decent plan. Don't know why you think he shouldn't have many As here, and we're likely to fold out basically everything we beat by betting and getting called by everything that beats us. So, if he doesn't have a bluffing range, check fold seems fine, although I don't know how you can say he just doesn't have one, there are a fair few hands that he could decide to get funky with.

Hand 2 I dont hate the check flop, but similarly I think betting is ok too. We have a pretty good hand to bluff with here as we don't mind folding it to a raise, but we have a bunch of ways to catch up to the wide range of hands he can call flop with, and we can also pot control effectively from position if we want to. We can also continue more credibly on clubs as a bluff. We also don't have good implied odds since all the hands we make are going to be very obvious, and a lot of cards that improve our hand are going to improve his too. If I check flop then I'm check-folding for sure unless we improve, and again in a hyper hu situation this just seems too weak.

As for the jam, what on earth is this. Yes, villain is unlikely to have a flush, but hes also unlikely to have a straight and very unlikely to have any kind of value hand that can call us. You have to consider the range of hands that the villain can have, and basically none of them can call a jam. You're giving him a fantastic excuse to fold everything that would call a smaller value bet. Our line looks to strong here, even a station can fold the bottom end of the straight. Even if he did call, we are losing loads of value long term by making this bet.

[shipitgood]

Hand 1, agree we should make a continuation bet on the flop. This is a mistake.

As for the whole bluff thing, there is people that don't bluff [I never bluff:)]

100% we have to bet turn imo for value, and go for thin value on the river, that's why I don't like <50% pot size value bet.

Hand 2, They have a straight on the board, and everyone loves a chop pot!

[JGill_DTD]

Agree with Rexas here, hand 1 I rly dont see the point in betting riv. We fold worse out and if he thinks you are bluffing turn and gonna rep the riv then he will check Ax to us. Betting achieves very little in this spot, other than avoiding showdown.

Hand 2 I think we can go for value (smaller than pot), jamming should pretty much always fold out worse. it's another spot where jamming achieves nothing other than avoiding showdown.

[Rexas]

Hand 1, agree we should make a continuation bet on the flop. This is a mistake.

As for the whole bluff thing, there is people that don't bluff [I never bluff:)]

100% we have to bet turn imo for value, and go for thin value on the river, that's why I don't like <50% pot size value bet.

Hand 2, They have a straight on the board, and everyone loves a chop pot!

You just posted a hand where you did, so not sure what this is for. I suppose some people do never bluff, but I doubt those people are playing HU Hyper turbos!

Hand 2 *sigh* must read the HH properly, idk why but im not very good at seeing those things in this format :p Point still stands though, we've given him a terrible price to call to only break even for the hand, and if hes even mildly competent he will fold, whereas for a small bet he will call a lot more often.

[shipitgood]

With hand 1 Villian never has a Queen here.

He has check 2 us twice now.

When he calls the turn (against quite a big bet) he certainly has some weak made hand.

He doesn't have many Ace's in his range - any big ace you'd expect a 3 bet pre flop.

The only aces he can really have imo, are Ace 2/ Ace 6, don't see him calling the biggish turn pet with 2 overs. When he calls he always has hut some piece of the board and will not fold easily.

Which is why I went for thin value on the river.

He has a whole load of 6x hands in his range, and some 2's as well.

Betting the river we are going for value against his 6x hands (which we fully expect a call from against this villain) and indeed he did call.

[JGill_DTD]

With hand 1 Villian never has a Queen here.

He has check 2 us twice now.

When he calls the turn (against quite a big bet) he certainly has some weak made hand.

He doesn't have many Ace's in his range - any big ace you'd expect a 3 bet pre flop.

The only aces he can really have imo, are Ace 2/ Ace 6, don't see him calling the biggish turn pet with 2 overs. When he calls he always has hut some piece of the board and will not fold easily.

Which is why I went for thin value on the river.

He has a whole load of 6x hands in his range, and some 2's as well.

Betting the river we are going for value against his 6x hands (which we fully expect a call from against this villain) and indeed he did call.

Ax clubs perhaps? he should be folding the riv if he was a non believer on the turn with any 2 and 6x when the A peels off. I just think it is too thin and quite often we value town ourselves.

I feel like you ask for advice then come out with a "well no my line was the nut one actually" approach, in which case I'm not really sure why you continue to post hands for 'advice' when you dismiss it all the vast majority of the time. In this spot I feel him finding 6x and finding a call is pretty results orientated.

[pleno1]

Tbf think 8x is definitely a value bet otr except villain to jam a bunch of ax pre.

[WotRTheChances]

Hand 1 i'd c-bet and bet turn.... if we've done this i would probably check river, as played i probably just bet like 80, get some crying calls from worse 8x and 6x and non-showdown has benefits.

Hand 2 check flop is fine, i'd bet 60 turn 160 river rather than jamming... think we get called for chops for 160 a lot lot lot more than we get calls for stacks from hands that play the board (should be almost never)

[shipitgood]

"I feel like you ask for advice then come out with a "well no my line was the nut one actually" approach, in which case I'm not really sure why you continue to post hands for 'advice' when you dismiss it all the vast majority of the time."

Hey JGill,

I appreciate all comments mate, I've just re-read my original response to rexas, it was pretty badly worded "100% we have to bet the turn imo for value" for example.

As for the second post, it pretty much reiterates my 2nd post in the thread, so wasn't needed.

Also, I seldom think my line is the nut one, I wish! That's what I love about poker so many areas of grey, and seldom black and white.

I don't feel I dismiss what people say the vast majority of the time, if it comes across that way it's certainly not meant to. But I can certainly see why from the above 2 posts you felt they were dismissive, but that was certainly not the intention merely to debate whether we should be (think) value betting river here.