Last 60 Tribeca $15k

[JungleCat03]

Flush

In another post you said you couldn’t begin to understand how someone could call your pre-flop all-in raise with AKs. Others agreed – one was even ‘staggered’ at this action.

I thought it was a reasonable call for a 99 on a 5 handed final table.

Next day you call an all-in raise with AQos on a full table mid tournament, which really is an easy fold.

Explain

I'm sure flushie has his own thoughts on this but here's my take.  All poker decisions are contextual. Calling allin with 72 at one time may be correct whilst even passing AA preflop can be correct in extreme circumstances.

The call with the 99 was a bit loose in my opinion. This is chip leader reraising 2nd chip leader allin for his chips and i would put flushie's range at TT+ AQs+ (I might however remove AA and KK from the equation as i would think they are played for more value). 99 simply doesn't perform too well against that range. If blinds were shallower, I would loosen Flushie's range considerably and find a call with 99 pretty easy with the overlay but they weren't, there's plenty of play left and I can find better, more profitable spots than running 99 against a strong range when I'm relatively deep. However there are extra chips in the pot and if the player felt he might be up against some better players in the final who would grind him down, then this may not be a bad spot for him to commit his chips.

The 2nd time with AQ, I saw this hand played out and immediately felt it was a call. 2 factors made this so for me. His play looked very much like a squeeze play. A few people didn't like Flushie's flat call. Nor did I to be honest. I think it's too much of his stack to coldcall out of position with a hand he needs to connect with.

Once he does however the initial limper sees a guy raising in late position and someone just flat calling the raise. There's lots in the pot vs 2 hands that may well not be massively strong. It's a good spot to move in with a pocket pair, to get it heads up with the overlay vs a likely 2 overcards. That was the read I had, that he had something like 55-TT.

Once the raiser folds and it's coming round to flushie , he's got a MP limper checkraising allin. This wasn't an UTG limper checkraising allin either which might be more suspicious. He's getting 2-1 on his call against a slightly suspect range. Even when the guy shows him Kings, which may occasionally happen here, the move is roughly neutral EV but I would definitely expect a coin flip against his range.

To me coin flips with big overlays are very easy calls in tournaments. So he decides to call and finds a 60-40. Wow nice one. Get in 60-40s with overlays in comps all the time, you'll be very successful.

So to me the context of the two hands creates very different results.

[Royal Flush]

JungleCat has answered this very well.

The guy has limped in MP not UTG so i have removed AA-QQ, AK from his range, i just see a limp there in these tournaments so very rarely that its not a real possibility.

When the play has come back round to me i am getting 2-1 on what i believe is almost always a coin flip. If i fold i am left below 20 bb's and will find it hard to accumulate chips as we approach the bubble, if instead i call and win that ~50% of the time then i will have 30k+ and be able to run the table over on the bubble, that 30k would enable me to work up to 40-50k without having to show a hand. 27th gets 1% of the pool first gets 27%

Seamus, hello again.

I see the conditions very diffrent indeed, you seem to be blind to anything other than what hands people hold, with final tables there are massive diffrences between cash EV and chip EV, this however there is little diffrence, although the chips i hold are more important that the ones i win (tournament survival 101) i am getting 2-1 which negates the diffrence, especially when you consider that winning the pot allows me to open up my game reducing the diffrence in the chip ev as winning that 30k pot will actuall give me more than 30k.

[bhoywonder]

wow


great thread

the only problem is when confronted with similar problems is i have max 20 seconds to think through all the scenarios and still not have a clue where i am


great thinking from great poker minds

[seamus]

 
Hi Flush and Cat

Fair answers.  Made me run through the options again……

I do generally take the view that in online tourneys hand strength takes priority. I support Matt’s reply about ‘survival’ at the mid point –  regardless of chip opportunities. If I am going to rely on an element of luck I will take my chance when it is forced upon me. (‘Fuzzy’ plays excepted )

In the 99 hand I think our difference is in what is read by your ‘protection’ all-in. IMO it does not automatically indicate a high pair - due to your BB position - but what it was; a hand vulnerable to a pocket pair.

Alternatively I suppose Mr 99 might have simply done a ‘Gerrard’ – blasting from 35 yards regardless. 

In another thread ‘Final table Moment’ I presented a hand situation in a live tourney –
Chip leader limps in to my BB, which I check. Flop shows a pair. I check and CL bets for most of my chips. I have an open ended straight draw. A long pause from me.     
The replies generally said ‘easy fold’ which it was.
I took my shot and hit. What was interesting was that the whole table (except the ex CL) was impressed by my ‘bold’ move, not my loose call. I think I won more than chips with that call. What’s the EV on that?