Have I got to learn to pass here ?

[Nakor]

Ladbrokes deep stack - have played well very tight table image.
We about 10 off the money and I am in the top 6 or 7.

I have played Scorpian well all day - he very aggressive.

Hatcher only been at the table about 5 hands.

Do I have to pass to Hatcher ?
Tournament life and all that - I'm just not sure I could.

** Dealing card to Adamandgru: King of Diamonds, King of Clubs

Scorpion34 raised - $1800.00

Adamandgru raised - $3600.00

axax folded

Parklane1984 folded

themantis folded

gazdecard folded

Tangent-Man folded

mcv1234 folded

Moonraker folded

hatcher went all-in - $20925.00

Scorpion34 went all-in - $11035.00

Adamandgru went all-in - $13530.00

hatcher shows: Ace of Spades, Ace of Hearts

Scorpion34 shows: 9 of Diamonds, 9 of Hearts



** Dealing the flop: Ace of Diamonds, 7 of Hearts, King of Hearts



** Dealing the turn: 4 of Spades



** Dealing the river: 8 of Diamonds

hatcher wins $38805.00 from the main pot

hatcher wins $47395.00 from side pot 1

[The Camel]

I have played poker for over 20 years and onlypassed kings twice preflop.

Once correctly, once incorrectly.

After I passed them incorrectly I spoke to my poker mentor Asher Derei and he had never passed them and he has played more big tournaments than I've had hot dinners, (And i've had alot of hot dinners!)

I think the evidence has to be far more overwhelming than the case here before you start folding kings..

[bhoywonder]

exact hand (suits excepted ) happened to me earlier today  in eleventh place ..paying on 9


I chastised myself for playing

but looking back

who does fold KK???

[The Baron]

Dave Colclough said he would NEVER pass them heads up in a pot pre flop. Obviously this wasn't heads up but it's a statement from a top player that is worth considering.

[ifm]

I'm not good enough to fold kings.

[totalise]

its natural to chastise yourself for running KK into AA... then you just remember all the times you "thought" they had AA, and they flip up an underpair or AK/AQ, and then you think to yourself "maybe folding KK preflop isn't such a good idea after all"

The Camel (imo) said it best in this line:

"I think the evidence has to be far more overwhelming than the case here before you start folding kings.."

that sums up my sentiments exactly

[Josh]

I heard it's in fashion to fold kings pre-flop.
All the cool kids are doing it.

[jezza777]

folding KK preflop online is a losing play . You have to call

[The Camel]

Here is the hand where I folded KK correctly... This is the sort of evidence you need IMO:

£1500 comp at Walsall. 15,000 chips to play with, one hour levels.

I'm on a pretty lively table.

Late in level 2 (50-100) and I've got about what I started with.

I limp UTG for 100. There are a couple of other limpers. Barny Boatman makes it 500 to play in late position. Passed to the BB who has only played one pot so far and then he check/called all the way with pocket queens. The BB now makes it 1500 to play. I make it 4000 to go. Barny passes (He had QQ).

Now the BB moves allin for 17,000.

He showed aces when I passed...

[bhoywonder]

Here is the hand where I folded KK correctly... This is the sort of evidence you need IMO:

£1500 comp at Walsall. 15,000 chips to play with, one hour levels.

I'm on a pretty lively table.

Late in level 2 (50-100) and I've got about what I started with.

I limp UTG for 100. There are a couple of other limpers. Barny Boatman makes it 500 to play in late position. Passed to the BB who has only played one pot so far and then he check/called all the way with pocket queens. The BB now makes it 1500 to play. I make it 4000 to go. Barny passes (He had QQ).

Now the BB moves allin for 17,000.

He showed aces when I passed...

well im impressed

[ifm]

I played a very similar hand like that where i passed AK suited to aces in a £500 comp at Walsall, gives you a nice feeling to see the aces.
I'd be gutted if he flipped pocket 8's though (to your KK i mean).
I think the real key to passing kings is the stack sizes, you say you need the evidence to do it, by that i take it a raise reraise etc.
the trouble with the huge majority of comps is you rarely have the chips to do it, by the time you realise he has an absolute monster you are comitted or the comp starts with few chips and you never can get far enough ahead of the blinds to allow for good folds.

[The Camel]

I played a very similar hand like that where i passed AK suited to aces in a £500 comp at Walsall, gives you a nice feeling to see the aces.
I'd be gutted if he flipped pocket 8's though (to your KK i mean).
I think the real key to passing kings is the stack sizes, you say you need the evidence to do it, by that i take it a raise reraise etc.
the trouble with the huge majority of comps is you rarely have the chips to do it, by the time you realise he has an absolute monster you are comitted or the comp starts with few chips and you never can get far enough ahead of the blinds to allow for good folds.

No, I don't mean raise, reraise etc.

With some players the third raise means no more than the first raise. It's the type of player who is making the raise which is important.

If Julian makes the fourth raise in a pot, his range of hands is still very wide, any pocket pair, AK or even suited connectors.  If Red Dog makes the fourth raise in the pot the only question is... Has he got red or black aces?

[RED-DOG]

Well that's where your wrong!

(I could have one of each)

[Nakor]

Thanks for the replys guys.

I thnink the only reason I posted the hand is at the time I guess I kind of knew/expected he had them.

However I was in the tournament to win it - and to me laying KK down is not a winning play in my book.

I suppose I just needed confirmation that 'my book' had the correct information in.

[ifm]

No, I don't mean raise, reraise etc.

With some players the third raise means no more than the first raise. It's the type of player who is making the raise which is important.

If Julian makes the fourth raise in a pot, his range of hands is still very wide, any pocket pair, AK or even suited connectors.  If Red Dog makes the fourth raise in the pot the only question is... Has he got red or black aces?

Gotcha, though that can be even worse, i actually witnessed RED do that with 84 offsuit, i nearly fell off my chair.
Especially when he hit 2 pair