ABE, Anyone but England?

[thediceman]

No offense taken. I've played the devils advocate and just thought I would start adopting a more direct response in the name of sport and see who would bite first

Indeed Tank there is nothing stopping you from dreaming about climbing the qualifying rounds from say 4th position to 3rd but that's keep it realistis qualification LMAO. The difference is the level of our dreams. So are we to have a little wager on South Africa 2010???.

[ifm]

Whoosh

For the record, the real reason I started the thread was to cheese off ifm.   

(joke)

Didn't work cuz i don't actually care what you lot think, i just wanted to say i told you so.

[The Baron]

I was thinking and realised that In the 1990's I too was afflicted by the "anyone but" attitude, so I think I can understand the scots lads standpoint.

Every day in the paper, every match of the day, every report in the sports pages was about bloody Man U. Non stop, all the time, incessant.

I got so sick of it I developed ABMU syndrome.

To this day I haven't shaken it. I'll support any premiership team in europe but cannot bring myself to cheer on the manure (and Birmingham City obviously, even though I have loads of mates who support em).  Go figure.

Same as that Jim.

[thetank]

 i just wanted to say i told you so.

 

Which of the oracle's predictions have come true?

[I, Zimbra]

Actually, maybe this thread isn't as good as I first thought it was - we seem to have given up debating.

Please do. I actually prefer that to you guys rooting for us (which is, although well-meaning, sometimes a little patronising.)

I don't think you can have it both ways, either the English are well-meaning, or they're patronising. I.e. either they're rooting for a near-neighbour in a genuine sense of hoping they do well, or they're "keeping an eye on the little-un", in order to make themselves feel superior.

From my experience, I genuinely hope Scotland do well - except when they're playing against England of course.

As other people have mentioned on this thread, I put this down to a sense of there being more that unites the countries of England and Scotland than divides them, although from what I've read already on this thread I'm sure I can count on several differing opinions on that score.

Certainly one could say there is probably even more that unites various people from one part of North London, but that didn't stop a whole bunch of Spurs fans from supporting Barcelona in the recent Champs League final... which also explains the ABE attitude of always choosing a team directly in England's path to support. It's a footie thing, transplanted onto the National stage.

[thetank]

Right, lets have a crack at this, in the spirit of debate, devils advocate, jadda jadda jadda

I'm sure you'll all get a good laugh out of this post.

I would much prefer to have the positive stance rather than adopting a negative ones towards a more successful neighbouring country.

Firstly, by more successful neighbouring country, are you referring to England being more successful than Scotland?

Well, here's one way of looking at the facts in regard to that. Scotland have won one internatinal competiton this year, the Kirin Cup. A 5-1 win over Bulgaria and a goalless draw with Japan was enough to secure that.

Without going too far down the lines of per capita success, I think we can be very happy with that.

Also, last time England played Scotland, in a playoff for Euro 2000 qualification, Scotland were the victors (aggregate schmaggregate.) Scotland triumphed over 90 minutes at Wembley.

If I bring per capita success into things, well that's too easy. 

Sure you guys won a World Cup, but that was in a different era. Scotland invented penecillin in a different era.

Anyway, my point is, I'm happy enough with rooting for Scotland for the time being.

[The Baron]

PMSL - cant believe he didn't even mention Elephant Polo!

[thetank]

Please do. I actually prefer that to you guys rooting for us (which is, although well-meaning, sometimes a little patronising.)

I don't think you can have it both ways, either the English are well-meaning, or they're patronising. I.e. either they're rooting for a near-neighbour in a genuine sense of hoping they do well, or they're "keeping an eye on the little-un", in order to make themselves feel superior.

True, you can't have it both ways.

What I meant was, the people giving the support can be well meaning, but can be percieved as patronizing by the beneficiary of said support. (ie, they didn't mean it in a condescending way, but that's how it can be seen)
Not by me though, I'm happy with the Kirrimejiggy Cup. 

The whole "please mirror our negative sentiments" point which emanating from that was slightly toungue in cheek.

If you root for Scotland great, if you don't and slag us when we get beat, that's great too.

As other people have mentioned on this thread, I put this down to a sense of there being more that unites the countries of England and Scotland than divides them, although from what I've read already on this thread I'm sure I can count on several differing opinions on that score.

Again this is true, much more divides us than seperates us.

One might argue that a friendly sporting rivarly is one of those things for the uniting camp though. A slap on the back, gentle teasing, it's all in good fun. I'll mock a defeat, while raising a pint with my good natured English chums.

Despite what the tabloids would love to have us all believe, footall is only a game. If England don't win the World Cup, I'm sure most of the rubdowns on blonde will be good natured. It's not an attack on your beliefs or culture, which you and others have rightly pointed out, is strikingly similar (in an identical kinda way) to our own.

[thetank]

PMSL - cant believe he didn't even mention Elephant Polo!

I tried to keep it within the confines of football as much as possible, lest it not be taken seriously

[thetank]

Indeed Tank there is nothing stopping you from dreaming about climbing the qualifying rounds from say 4th position to 3rd but that's keep it realistis qualification LMAO. The difference is the level of our dreams. So are we to have a little wager on South Africa 2010???.

I'll ignore my Gran's advice (God rest her soul) and make a bet with a man who laughs at his own jokes. 

A pint to be bought at Blonde Bash XVII for the man whos team reaches the furthest in their quest for the World Cup in South Africa.

[thediceman]

Indeed Tank there is nothing stopping you from dreaming about climbing the qualifying rounds from say 4th position to 3rd but that's keep it realistis qualification LMAO. The difference is the level of our dreams. So are we to have a little wager on South Africa 2010???.

I'll ignore my Gran's advice (God rest her soul) and make a bet with a man who laughs at his own jokes. 

A pint to be bought at Blonde Bash XVII for the man whos team reaches the furthest in their quest for the World Cup in South Africa.

Let's make it a tad more interesting, I'll raise you the Queen Vic if you call by putting up the cafe and the garage.

[marcro]

This article in today's Times may be relevant to this discussion?

www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2224705,00.html

World Cup snub by Scots leader 'fuels anti-English racism'
By David Lister, Scotland Correspondent
 
AN ENGLAND football fan living in Scotland blamed the country’s First Minister yesterday for stoking anti-English racism after his windows were smashed because he was displaying the St George’s flag. Amid rising fears that Scotland may be boycotted by tourists from south of the Border over Jack McConnell’s refusal to support England in the World Cup, Allan Robinson, 44, accused the First Minister of putting English people living in Scotland at risk.
 
Police said that they were investigating an “act of vandalism” on Mr Robinson’s home in Coatbridge, Lanarkshire, in which three windows were smashed as the opening game of the tournament got under way last Friday.

Anti-racism campaigners described the attack as “moronic”, but Mr Robinson, who is originally from Leeds and moved to Scotland five years ago, blamed the First Minister. “Me putting up a single flag . . . and my windows going through, I think it’s all to do with what Jack McConnell says.

“I was horrified by the attack. All three bedroom windows were smashed in. My girlfriend and I went down the shops and I was in my England strip. I got abuse hurled at me. I didn’t leave my house all weekend. I’m thinking it might be safer to move.”

The attack will further damage Scotland’s reputation as a welcoming and tolerant nation, already under scrutiny after the First Minister’s remarks. Asked last month whether he would be supporting England, Mr McConnell said: “No, I will not. Scotland is not there and that’s disappointing. And there are people who think that as First Minister I should automatically support England instead. But football is not about politics, so I will not be.”

The First Minister’s office denied that Mr McConnell had encouraged anti-Englishness. A spokesman refused to discuss the incident but said: “There is no place for racism in Scotland and we will do whatever we can to tackle that.” This week a group of 60 chartered surveyors from England cancelled a two-day conference at an hotel in Scotland because of Mr McConnell’s comments.

Tourism chiefs are concerned that the English may boycott Scotland after Mr McConnell’s remarks, but Visit Scotland, the tourist authority, said that, with one exception, there were no indications that this was happening.

Although Gordon Brown has said that he will be supporting England along with “two thirds of Scots”, most of the 400,000 English people living north of the Border will find that statistic hard to believe.

Sports shops across Scotland have struggled to cope with demand for Trinidad & Tobago strips and Jason Scotland, the Trinidadian striker who plays for St Johnstone, the Scottish first division team, has become a cult hero with a song in his name sweeping to the top of the charts.

Some bars are offering free drinks whenever England concede a goal and a sports shop in Angus is giving free golf balls to anybody wearing the strips of England’s opponents.

The Scottish Commission for Racial Equality has cautioned against anti-English racism, while schoolchildren who make anti-English remarks in class have been threatened with suspension. The letters pages of newspapers have been inun- dated with complaints about England’s World Cup “hysteria”and the endless coverage of Wayne Rooney’s foot.
 
 

[jammer]

Scotland is a top place. Its got a rich culture in both art and music and the scenery is beautiful. Given this I absolutely hate the fact that fact that its national identity now seems to be almost totally defined by hating another nation. It has so much bloody more going for it than to be reduced to that. And I still blame the self-absorbed london media and self-serving politicians for keeping that going.

Course that's nothing to do with footie rivalry, which is part of what makes the game great. The dutch loathe the german team for example, perhaps even more than the scots dislike the world-champions in waiting

[matt674]

perhaps even more than the scots dislike the world-champions in waiting

I always thought that the Scottish liked Brazil..........

Thats the country Brazil - not Alan......

[jammer]

perhaps even more than the scots dislike the world-champions in waiting

I always thought that the Scottish liked Brazil..........

Thats the country Brazil - not Alan......

Brazil nuts. They like brazil nuts.