Tanks latest article

[byronkincaid]

I think it’s high time the major online poker rooms made it a little clearer to all their customers that the following is unacceptable...

Collusion, soft-playing, multi-accounting, software utilizing central databases and the use of poker bots.

OK all of this is from memory so could be slightly wrong but...

Soft-Playing is legal in cash games at Stars. The regular high stakes NL players used to have an agreement that when they got heads up in a pot they would just check it down no matter what cards they had. Lee Jones said this is OK.

PokerDB and Sharkscope are also OK by Lee Jones. He put up a poll at 2+2 asking if Stars should change their software to make it harder or impossible for these sites to get the info. The majority of people voted to keep the software the same.

I did a little bit of research into multi-accounting at Crypto. It seems to be perfectly OK for you to enter the same tourney using accounts on different Crypto skins. If you sit at the same table one of the accounts will automatically sit out.

And this is pure gossip but I spoke to someone who works for a Poker site who says that there is no collusion detection at Pacific Poker. I spoke to someone else (this is a less reliable person) who says there is no bot detection at Ultimate Bet.



 

[Sark79]

Is it correct on UB that a player is allowed to have more than one account?   I heard in an interview with Ozzy 87 on P5's, that he had more than one account.  He was upfront about this and made clear he never used them for mtt. He only played cash games with his accounts and at different times.  In no way was he cheating, I want to make that clear.  His decision to use other accounts stemmed from an attempt to prevent people reading his game.  Check out the interview on P5's.

I know that this is against the rules on other sites.  For cash game players, this is a big advantage surely?     I don't think there is anything wrong with having more than one account on a site.  Obviously as long as they are used at seperate times like the example above

[thetank]

I think it’s high time the major online poker rooms made it a little clearer to all their customers that the following is unacceptable...

Collusion, soft-playing, multi-accounting, software utilizing central databases and the use of poker bots.

OK all of this is from memory so could be slightly wrong but...

Soft-Playing is legal in cash games at Stars. The regular high stakes NL players used to have an agreement that when they got heads up in a pot they would just check it down no matter what cards they had. Lee Jones said this is OK.

PokerDB and Sharkscope are also OK by Lee Jones. He put up a poll at 2+2 asking if Stars should change their software to make it harder or impossible for these sites to get the info. The majority of people voted to keep the software the same.

I did a little bit of research into multi-accounting at Crypto. It seems to be perfectly OK for you to enter the same tourney using accounts on different Crypto skins. If you sit at the same table one of the accounts will automatically sit out.

And this is pure gossip but I spoke to someone who works for a Poker site who says that there is no collusion detection at Pacific Poker. I spoke to someone else (this is a less reliable person) who says there is no bot detection at Ultimate Bet.

All the more reason why things need to change IMO.

Soft playing in big cash games is fair enough. Let the Whales do as they will, but I'm more concerned with the other 99.99% of online poker.

I'm not a Sharkscope fan. Firstly I don't find it logical that they allow it while similar programs which offer the exact same service are on the banned list.
A poll on 2+2 is all very well, but they aren't representative of a cross section of the online poker player. I think websites should do the responsible thing for all it's customers, not just the consistant winners.
I refer to the story of when someone went to the trouble of recording everyones results in live poker and then announcing them. The biggest loser didn't come back.

Multi-accounting at Crypto, you won't see me playing there any time soon. Sit out or no sit out.
Same deal with Pacific.

Cheating at poker is rife, I'd be more likely to play at a site which makes loud noises about what it's doing, and what it's done to minimize the problem.
Whether any will do that or not is another thing entirely, it highlights to the casual signer upper that cheating actually happens.

[byronkincaid]

What about running this software while you're playing SNG's?

http://www.shoplva.com/ProductDetail.cfm?ItemNumber=1478

[thetank]

I'll never use them coz I don't see too much grey area between them and a bot. Especially in forms of poker (like short structured sit n gos) where most of the moves are all-in or fold. There's not much left for the user to do but click the buttons.

Not a fan, but I don't make the rules.

If it were up to me, everyone would be limited to using the sit n go power tool between their shoulders.

[The Baron]

Is it correct on UB that a player is allowed to have more than one account?   I heard in an interview with Ozzy 87 on P5's, that he had more than one account.  He was upfront about this and made clear he never used them for mtt. He only played cash games with his accounts and at different times.  In no way was he cheating, I want to make that clear.  His decision to use other accounts stemmed from an attempt to prevent people reading his game.  Check out the interview on P5's.

I know that this is against the rules on other sites.  For cash game players, this is a big advantage surely?     I don't think there is anything wrong with having more than one account on a site.  Obviously as long as they are used at seperate times like the example above

It is possible to have two UB accounts, even from the SAME email address.

[Scottish Dave]

personally i think Tanks article is spot on, its about time the companies did some thing about these issues which should have been address long before

[totalise]

I just recently changed my UB account. mainly because the guy that was giving me rakeback decided to not do it anymore and stiffed me for some pretty reasonable coin

I asked them about it, and they say that you can have 3 accounts registered from one computer, which Im not a fan of, but as tank says, they make the rules

As for that software thing, does it run in real time? if so, thats terrible. Eastbay who wrote the origional SNG-PT says that he has turned down multiple huge offers to make his software real time, because then you are effectively a bot.. theres close to no difference between you being sat at a pc, and having the pc control itself (at least from your opponents perspective)

Online poker is getting worse all the time, quite worrying indeed

[ifm]

They already have undetectable bots, you run the program from a second computer on a network with the first, it then controls the mouse actions.

[thetank]

The WinHoldem forum is a depressing read.

Where cheats, botters and teamers of all types gather to discuss their trade. What sickens me is that half of them think they're legit.

[thetank]

As for that software thing, does it run in real time? if so, thats terrible. Eastbay who wrote the origional SNG-PT says that he has turned down multiple huge offers to make his software real time, because then you are effectively a bot.. theres close to no difference between you being sat at a pc, and having the pc control itself (at least from your opponents perspective)

Texas Calculatem is the one I particualry don't like. It certainly runs in real time.

I believe there's a version of SNG-PT that runs in real time too. I think someone just ripped it off and modified it.

I have no problem with a program such as that which doesn't run in real time.

[byronkincaid]

The way I read the ad it's real time and pretty much the same (but not as advanced) as converting SNG PT to be real time.

BUT Kill Phil was co-written by a stars sponsored player, so maybe that's the reason Stars are OKing it. TBH I'm pretty confused about how it can be OK if it does what they say it does.

Hello Justin,

From reading the description of the program, I think it would be allowed.
If you examine our Prohibited Programs Policy at
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited , you will see this:

    Q. In general, what kind of programs are acceptable?

    A. Programs (or charts) that simply tell you odds, starting hand
       recommendations, etc.

This is all the Kill Phil program appears to do - look at your starting
hand and position in a tournament, and then provide strategy advice. It
does not appear to share hole card information, work off a central
database of player profiles, or play without any human intervention,
therefore it would not be prohibited.

Please understand that this advice is based on the description of the
product at the link you gave. If you buy the product and it turns out to
have different features, you should seek advice before using it at
PokerStars.


Regards,

Alex S
PokerStars Support Team

[thetank]

They already have undetectable bots, you run the program from a second computer on a network with the first, it then controls the mouse actions.

As there's seldom honour amongst thieves, perhaps bountys should be given to those who shop a botter.

Conclusive proof would be hard to come by of course, but where there's a will....

[totalise]

As for that software thing, does it run in real time? if so, thats terrible. Eastbay who wrote the origional SNG-PT says that he has turned down multiple huge offers to make his software real time, because then you are effectively a bot.. theres close to no difference between you being sat at a pc, and having the pc control itself (at least from your opponents perspective)

Texas Calculatem is the one I particualry don't like. It certainly runs in real time.

I believe there's a version of SNG-PT that runs in real time too. I think someone just ripped it off and modified it.

I have no problem with a program such as that which doesn't run in real time.

I have no probs with it if its not in real time either, its not like you cant do it by hand.. it just simplifies the process. Having it running in real time, well... if everyone uses it then people will just be playing roundabout with the placements, effectively running the economy down via rake (which thinking about it, would be perfect for poker-sites, having no winners and no losers apart from themselves, and i suspect is the reason why they wont crack down. if everyone becomes an optimally perfect player, they are the only ones that will win long term)

One good thing that might come from this is that all these little kids that rely on poker software to win mite find themselves in the position of having big rolls and no skill, if the sites DO launch a huge crackdown on all poker software.. and then they would have to use their own skills to play, becoming donators!! a fanciful dream, but one I like to cling to

[Sark79]

I already have a UB account under the name Sark79.  I can't remember opening it.  I also can't remember emailing UB and explaining I wanted to close the account.  Apparently I did this over a 24hr period about 8 months ago.  I only found out about this recently.   I am convinced I have an evil twin out there somewhere who opens and closes poker accounts while acting as me. The same thing happened with Poker Room and Paradise.

 I did consider opening an UB account a few weeks back, but decided against it in the end.  I am happy with the accounts I currently play and if I opened another, I would just be fueling my addiction. Some people are addicted to chocolate, some people are addicted to coffee. My problem is poker accounts. I see a new site and think to myself  " That looks a nice site, what lovely bright colours it has, I will join it".  Still, at least I am not a member of 25 sites like some other people  .