Following on from online gambling debts

[AndyG]

This thread got me thinking, When Im playing online Im always very careful about watching whats going on and keeping a close eye on other players and what they are doing as Im 100% certain that there are some players that have "an edge" shall we call it, Its the only way I can explain certain calls and plays, so its best to avoid these folk, But my question is that if its ever proved that in some way people have beat the system do you think that the online sites my be held responsible for not ensuring the security of their software, After all the old adage " if there is enough money involved someone somewhere will expoilt it" rings true more than ever and I know alot of people who have lost 1000's who if it came out that the game wasnt straight for some reason would be pretty peed off and perhaps willing to test the case in law

[Sark79]

Is this a conspiracy theory?    If it is, I blame all the sites and players online.   They are all out to get me, I always lose 

Even the Play Money tables have some sharks on them these days.  I was playing 7 Card Stud the other day and a regular high limit player( NL ) was sat at my table.  He appeared ordinary which surprised me.  I just assumed he would be able to master the game as quickly as NL, but he was making the same mistakes as the rest of us. 

[bolt pp]

are you thinkng of anything specific?

[AndyG]

I can think of many things that can be done easily is multi profiles etc but for me the worrying thing is Im sure that some players can see the hands of other players now Im in noway IT enabled to understand how this could be possible but as I said where the is a will there is a way with anything based on technology a few weeks ago i witnessed a 7k call after the ricer with Q high which won there is noway on earth that guy can make that call without knowing he is winning, I have heard talk of "trojan horses" but havent a clue what they might be exactly but I think if you dont have a good firewall it is possible to get into your comp and see what you are seeing which if so would be a bit of a cheek lol

[Royal Flush]

Im 100% certain that there are some players that have "an edge" shall we call it, Its the only way I can explain certain calls and plays,

It's called skill and knowledge.

[Table Manners]

I'm not a poker conspiracy theorist, but other than colluding and multi accounting there has been one thing that has got me slightly worried about weather online poker is 'straight' or not.

On some sky and cable chanels they sometimes show online poker being played with all the cards face up for the viewers and a commentator talking about the hands. Maybe some of you have seen this. The broadcast goes out with a 5 or 10 minute delay, so obviously noone can just watch the tele and see the cards of the players they are playing with.

I once met a guy who commentates on one of these shows, and he told me that while there is a delay on the broardcast, when he's recording the commentary, he's viewing it live.

This shows that it is possible for people at the sites to view people's hole cards live. It is therefore not inconceivable that there could be insiders at the sites exploiting this and cheating.

[Tractor]

I think seeing you opponents whole cards is possible although not very easy to make it happen in reality.
I was talking to a friend who is very clued up programer and he said it wouldnt be difficult to write a program to view whole cards (in fact there is a program already out there).
he said the way to do it would be convince a player on your table to chat to you on say msn or irc type program then send then the "program" and trick them into opening this would then establish the link which you could use to read his cards.
As i said not easy to achieve but possible.

[Royal Flush]

I think seeing you opponents whole cards is possible although not very easy to make it happen in reality.
I was talking to a friend who is very clued up programer and he said it wouldnt be difficult to write a program to view whole cards (in fact there is a program already out there).
he said the way to do it would be convince a player on your table to chat to you on say msn or irc type program then send then the "program" and trick them into opening this would then establish the link which you could use to read his cards.
As i said not easy to achieve but possible.

Yeah my m8 made 1 of these promgrams once, we started playing at the same time and we talked about this cheating, i said he couldnt do it he said he could. Sure enough he made a programme and tricked me into installing it onto my PC! If he can do it then i am sure many others have done it with the intent of cheating.

[Bongo]

There's nothing the sites can do about that though, apart from not letting you see your cards that is.

Moral of the story is to always be suspiscious of strange software and make sure your machine is well secure and everything is patched up to date.

[bolt pp]

I think seeing you opponents whole cards is possible although not very easy to make it happen in reality.
I was talking to a friend who is very clued up programer and he said it wouldnt be difficult to write a program to view whole cards (in fact there is a program already out there).
he said the way to do it would be convince a player on your table to chat to you on say msn or irc type program then send then the "program" and trick them into opening this would then establish the link which you could use to read his cards.
As i said not easy to achieve but possible.

Yeah my m8 made 1 of these promgrams once, we started playing at the same time and we talked about this cheating, i said he couldnt do it he said he could. Sure enough he made a programme and tricked me into installing it onto my PC! If he can do it then i am sure many others have done it with the intent of cheating.

My m8 tricked me into taking this big bag of white powder into my house and stashing it under my bed telling me it was bold 2 in 1 and that he wanted to try out persil for a while.

the police didnt believe me.

Flushy pull the other one m8, i know your a fish but didnt think you'd stoop that low!!

[tikay]

I'm not a poker conspiracy theorist, but other than colluding and multi accounting there has been one thing that has got me slightly worried about weather online poker is 'straight' or not.

On some sky and cable chanels they sometimes show online poker being played with all the cards face up for the viewers and a commentator talking about the hands. Maybe some of you have seen this. The broadcast goes out with a 5 or 10 minute delay, so obviously noone can just watch the tele and see the cards of the players they are playing with.

I once met a guy who commentates on one of these shows, and he told me that while there is a delay on the broardcast, when he's recording the commentary, he's viewing it live.

This shows that it is possible for people at the sites to view people's hole cards live. It is therefore not inconceivable that there could be insiders at the sites exploiting this and cheating.

Asd you may know, I actually commentate on these TV Online comps, in fact I commentate on the ones I play in.

Rest assured when it's played "live", we can only see our own cards. The delayed commentary is different. But I'm hopeful they wll let me see the other players cards soon....but it won't stop my AA being sucked out, now wiil it?

[Nem]

My m8 tricked me into taking this big bag of white powder into my house and stashing it under my bed telling me it was bold 2 in 1 and that he wanted to try out persil for a while.

the police didnt believe me.

Flushy pull the other one m8, i know your a fish but didnt think you'd stoop that low!!

[Royal Flush]

I think seeing you opponents whole cards is possible although not very easy to make it happen in reality.
I was talking to a friend who is very clued up programer and he said it wouldnt be difficult to write a program to view whole cards (in fact there is a program already out there).
he said the way to do it would be convince a player on your table to chat to you on say msn or irc type program then send then the "program" and trick them into opening this would then establish the link which you could use to read his cards.
As i said not easy to achieve but possible.

Yeah my m8 made 1 of these promgrams once, we started playing at the same time and we talked about this cheating, i said he couldnt do it he said he could. Sure enough he made a programme and tricked me into installing it onto my PC! If he can do it then i am sure many others have done it with the intent of cheating.

My m8 tricked me into taking this big bag of white powder into my house and stashing it under my bed telling me it was bold 2 in 1 and that he wanted to try out persil for a while.

the police didnt believe me.

Flushy pull the other one m8, i know your a fish but didnt think you'd stoop that low!!

lol.

I am sure you are jesting but for those who may be worried, obviously if i used such a programme i wouldnt post such things on here! I just know its easy to make these things! Of course a firewall stops these progs from working, but my tip is just never install poker related software untill you know about it more.

[M3boy]

I have always been against conspiricy theories (action flops and the like), but...................

That old saying about "if there is enough money to be made SOMEONE will do it" just MUST be true, it just MUST.

People can hack into the most secure computers (banks, The CIA etc....) so I dont believe that online sites have anywhere NEAR the sophisticated software in place as those places.

So to say someone isn't exploiting the system is nieve to say the least. I am 99.99999999% sure some people are. Too much money involved for this not to be happening.

I would also assume that this would be a "safer" option than hacking into banks and transferring money - traceable and against the Law. But with online poker not being regulated, would it actually be against the law to hack an online site??? I dunno.

As for Trojans, these have been around for donkeys, the most simple one is a "key logger" - It creates a file of ALL keys pressed on your PC. A VERY simple trojan but as you can imagine, could be VERY harmfull £'s wise. It can EASILY be placed on others PC's that are connected to the internet so you could see EVERY key they pressed (and what site they were on). These programs are used in companies to keep an eye on employee use of the internet.

[bolt pp]

If theres enough money involved someone will be at it.  exactly!!!

Whats to stop the people that are able to see the whole cards at the site to moniter for collusion being at it?