Is it fair to do this?

[Sark79]

Today, I got approached by an old Lady while walking past Borders.   She was collecting for the Christian aid.

She gave me a leaflet and asked me to have a quick read at it.  It said " How to recycle a goat".  Basically all the money she was helping raise for the Christian Aid was going to be used to buy a goat for starving people in Africa.

Here is what the leaflet said .

 ( This is what buying a goat will do to help a child in Africa )

1. Give an orphaned child a goat

2. The goat produces manure

3. The child grows more crops to eat and sell

4. The Child doesn't go hungry

5. The goat produces more goats

6. The Child sells a goat to pay for school

7. The Child keeps a goat

8. The child gives back a goat


The old Lady asked that I donate as little as 50p.  She gave me all the obvious reasons why my donation was vital if steps were to be taken to help address poverty in Africa.

Like everyone else, I feel terrible when I hear of people starving in Africa and other Developing Nations across the World. However I also care for animals.  I asked if my donation would go to anything other than buying a goat.  Her answer was that the aim of the Christian aid in this particular campaign was to provide what the leaflet suggested. A goat for people who had nothing.

I knocked her back and tried to explain my main concern was for the welfare of the animal.  She could not give me a concrete promise the goats would be cared for in an appropriate way.  Once the goat was bought, it is down to the owner to care for it, no vets keep an eye on the animal as this is to expensive.

Is it fair to subject a goat to the horrors of a Continent that struggles to feed themselves?.  I believe the answer is, No.  I don't know if my view is correct or wrong, but it was my choice and I will stick to it. 

[booder]

goat curry     mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Dewi_cool]

I think you can insist on having complete visibility of where your 50p has gone, if there is no guarantee you have to think seriously about your 50p. as far as the manure issue, load of sh*t in my opinion.

[Rod Paradise]

Sark, if you go onto the Christian Aid or oxfam websites there are other things available (a new well, sanitary toilets etc).

But, in the end the people in these areas need something to eat. Especially in places where the land is eroded/inhospitable, the goat is ideal, able to thrive off vegetation that sheep/cattle would starve on. The manure from the goats can help improve the soil quality, making food crops more viable, and of course goats breed, providing more goats & milk.

In the end these appeals are helping people to help themselves, and when they give a goat back, to help others as they've been helped.

As for the treatment of the goats, and the avaiability of vets, well I think the availability of doctors is more important, and I doubt that if the goats are what the people directly live off, that they will not care for them.

[Sark79]

load of sh.t       Funny Dewi


It wasn't the 50p I was concerned about.  The thought of my money paying for an animal to be subjected to misery is not something I will do.  I remember on Blue Peter back in the 90's, there was a similar campaign to buy  Donkeys for Developing Nations.  I thought at the time  " Why, so they can be worked to death by a person who has no time to care for them properly ?".   I am just not convinced that the animals welfare will be the main priority.  I am not saying this is without reason, the people in these countries don't have the education or resources to do this. It is not their fault. Unfortunately this is the case in my opinion. So I won't contribute to this sort of charity

[mikkyT]

Please think of the children!  ... why am I reminded of the south park movie with bin laden and the afgani kids who send them a goat

[Sark79]

What happens when I click on Mikky's phone?   I just clicked on it by mistake.   

[tikay]

Thats a very awkward moral dilemma Sark, but you touched on another issue that troubles me too - how much in the £ of donations actually goes to the good cause.

Oxfam & the like always tell you how much in the £ goes to "the cause", & how much for administrative costs. It costs a fortune to run charities, and those that run them have my absolute respct, so I have no problem with my £1 being diluted by admin & overhead costs - but I do want to know how much feeds through to the actual cause, always.

[boldie]

the main thing I have a problem with are the "professional beggars" who are out in city centre everyday..collecting money for charities. Those guys get aroun 8£ an hour...and seeing as there are ussually 4 or 6 of them that's atleast 32£ an hour spent...Add on top of that the overhead of the admin side of doing a charity, I can pretty much guarantee you they are losing money on them little begging excursions...

bah to the lot of em.

I give money to charities but only to those who keep a nice low profile and just spent what little money they have on taking care of what they are promising to take care off.

[tikay]

the main thing I have a problem with are the "professional beggars" who are out in city centre everyday..collecting money for charities. Those guys get aroun 8£ an hour...and seeing as there are ussually 4 or 6 of them that's atleast 32£ an hour spent...Add on top of that the overhead of the admin side of doing a charity, I can pretty much guarantee you they are losing money on them little begging excursions...

bah to the lot of em.

I give money to charities but only to those who keep a nice low profile and just spent what little money they have on taking care of what they are promising to take care off.

I'm not overly fussed about how much an hour they spend to collect the cash - they know their "business" & would not waste money, one assumes.

But it's how much in the £ that feeds through which is the key stat.

[RED-DOG]

I once made a donation to the NSPCC in response to an appeal. The upshot was, they rang me and wrote to me at least once a week asking for more. In the end it must haver cost them more than I donated in phone calls and letters, every one made me feel horrible.

There must be a better way.

[snoopy1239]

What happens when I click on Mikky's phone?   I just clicked on it by mistake.   

instant ban

[matt674]

Sark, if you go onto the Christian Aid or oxfam websites there are other things available (a new well, sanitary toilets etc).

But, in the end the people in these areas need something to eat. Especially in places where the land is eroded/inhospitable, the goat is ideal, able to thrive off vegetation that sheep/cattle would starve on. The manure from the goats can help improve the soil quality, making food crops more viable, and of course goats breed, providing more goats & milk.

In the end these appeals are helping people to help themselves, and when they give a goat back, to help others as they've been helped.

As for the treatment of the goats, and the avaiability of vets, well I think the availability of doctors is more important, and I doubt that if the goats are what the people directly live off, that they will not care for them.

 

Can vouch that this works first hand having lived in a village called Ta'if in Saudi Arabia for five years, all the households had a herd of goats that they would use for fuel and milk. The village was up in the mountains where the landscape was either rock or desert, there was no way sheep could ever have survived there. Once a week the head of the household would take them for a walk around the rocky areas and they would munch away on anything they could find (including household rubbish!). There were no vets but the goats seemed well enough looked after - but then they had to be as they provided the households with so much. Yes they became ill and there weren't any vets but then usually the goat was slaughtered and eaten, they had enough to be able to breed replacements anyway.

Five years - and i still never got used to having goats milk on my fruitloops!!

[Sark79]

Why were you staying in Ta'if in Saudi Arabia, matt?    Can you speak Arabic? 

[matt674]

My dad used to work out there as a poultry farmer. He was the manager of the farm that was the sole supplier of eggs to the majority of Saudi Arabia meaning i used to have 1,500,000 chickens as pets.