A bad day for the honest players in poker

[The_Patriot]

yup, disgraceful post.

[Scottish Dave]

I'm guessing he won't be repaying people out of the money he won.

Sheriff

here is an interesting Bit regarding your question. Im not taking any sides on this one, just relaying some info guys, we all have a high interest in poker, some more than other, and just feel this is useful info to know, if only for this thread:

LAP: Do you have a plan in place that would eventually pay back those that lost their funds at PokerSpot?

Dutch Boyd : There are basically two ways that I see the Pokerspot players getting paid back. The first way is through Rakefree.com. The business plan will call for purchasing the old Pokerspot assets in return for assuming the player debt. Like I mentioned before, there are several assets which are still in the old company. Proprietary poker software is not cheap, and it can definitely make business sense for Rakefree.com to purchase the software, the patents, and the old userlist for the amount it would take to pay off the Pokerspot debt. Ideally, this debt would be paid before Rakefree.com begins its operations.

The second way is by pursuing a breach of contract claim against the Montreal-based casino which pulled out of the deal we made to sell the software and pay the players back. Up until now, I haven’t had the money to go forward with that lawsuit.

I suppose a third way is if, by some miracle, I win a few million at poker. This year at the WSOP I pledged that if I won, I would personally pay back the Pokerspot debt. A lot of people got pissed at that, because they said it wasn’t enough… that I should be giving up every penny I make (in or outside of poker) until the debt is paid off. I think that’s a very unrealistic expectation. I don’t feel like that debt is my debt. Pokerspot was not Dutch Boyd. It was a corporation, not a shell of a corporation. I didn’t even own a controlling amount in it. And I’m not going to be carrying the debt as mine. But if I was able to make enough money so that the player debt wasn’t a majority of my net worth, I would pay it back to restore my reputation.

[Acidmouse]

I am personally very happy for Dutch. Anyone who goes through the sort of depression he has to deal with deserves some breaks

[Scottish Dave]

His intentions are now out in the open, so only time will tell what happens.

Lets not fight guys, lets all hold hands and love each other.....come on, group hug!

[Sheriff Fatman]

Go search on 2+2 if you want to find a volume of information on the subject.  In particular, look for MSSunshine's experiences at being left $56k out of pocket thanks to Dutch and Pokerspot.  As I said earlier, the issue is very well documented in many places and I've been following developments in this story for over 2 years.

I choose to comment because ESPN have spent 2 years promoting Dutch during the WSOP coverage as if he was their adopted child whilst choosing to completely overlook this issue.  It irritates me to watch it and the story of his bracelet win will only increase the level of sycophantic coverage he gets.  Personally, I think people should be made aware of Dutch's past before they rush to congratulate him.

Believe what you want to believe, I have my own opinions on the matter and I have chosen to voice them here as it seems that there is an active campaign afoot among sections of the poker media to ensure no high-profile player is adversely affected by the skeletons in their closet, and Dutch Boyd has more skeletons than most.

Link to latest 2+2 thread - with notable contributions from Greg Raymer and Matthew Hilger

Sheriff

[Gryff]

I don't know how anyone can defend him.
What he did is akin to you buying in at a casino, playing a couple of hours of poker and going to cash out only to be told sorry we spent your cash on paying personel and we can't give you any money.

How fast would said casino operators remain outside of the bar view hotel in any western country? Answers on the back of the worlds smallest violin please.

[Scottish Dave]

all people are saying is, there are two sides to every story, and no one should really go on what other people say about him, weather it be the 2004 world champion or not.

as i said earlier, i aint defending him, nor am i slating him, only time will tell in my eyes.

[Karabiner]

I am still waiting for him to pay me back about $50 that I had in Pokerspot.

I agree with everything that Sheriff has posted.

[Sark79]

Lets not fight guys, lets all hold hands and love each other.....come on, group hug!

Dave, I have some beads we could all wear.  I also have an old bango somewhere as well.  We could all sing a song if you want, that would be fun .   

[Gryff]

There are indeed two sides of every story and regardless of the problems with credit card processing company that stiffed them, they were using player deposits as operational capital.

There are very good reasons why doing this would get said individual locked up in most countries and thats because startups have a high rate of failure and governments dont want people getting screwed.

Who cares what greg raymer says? The issue as I see it is that he broke every single common sense rule of business which in most countries is illegal anyway, and yet he can throw his hands up and walk away if it all goes tits up as most startups do.



Heres something to make it even more simple:

Situation A:
You take your brand new sports car into a garage to fix a problem ( ie you transfer your asset to another party to perform a service paid at an agreed rate that enables you to perform an action [ playing poker in the real case - drive your car in our example ] ) , you go to pick it up several days later and it turns out the company went bankrupt and sold your car to pay some debts and buggered off.

You are
A) Rather ticked off about the whole thing and if you ever see the chap might have a strong word with him.
B) Rather understanding because you're sure the guy had the best intentions and was going to pay you back.


Situation B
You hear about Situation A:
You
A) Think there are two sides to any story
B) You think he's a gigantic asshole or simply incompetant beyond belief ( and criminally incompetant at that ).



Regardless of the persons intentions they have defrauded/stolen or been criminally incompetant/negligent/whatever, and deserve a few years in a cell.

[littlemissC]

I am personally very happy for Dutch. Anyone who goes through the sort of depression he has to deal with deserves some breaks

agreed it must be hard,but would you be sticking up for him if he didnt have a disability?i agree with sheriff

[snoopy1239]

click here to view the results of this comp, including one blondeite who managed to make the money before losing to a five outer

http://www.blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/3026

[Royal Flush]

Shame Joe didnt win this, i cant imagine there was ANY support for Dutch during that HU battle!

[snoopy1239]

Shame Joe didnt win this, i cant imagine there was ANY support for Dutch during that HU battle!

what about da crew?

Yo, dig it, sucka! Wesside

[Scottish Dave]

There are indeed two sides of every story and regardless of the problems with credit card processing company that stiffed them, they were using player deposits as operational capital.

There are very good reasons why doing this would get said individual locked up in most countries and thats because startups have a high rate of failure and governments dont want people getting screwed.

Who cares what greg raymer says? The issue as I see it is that he broke every single common sense rule of business which in most countries is illegal anyway, and yet he can throw his hands up and walk away if it all goes tits up as most startups do.



Heres something to make it even more simple:

Situation A:
You take your brand new sports car into a garage to fix a problem ( ie you transfer your asset to another party to perform a service paid at an agreed rate that enables you to perform an action [ playing poker in the real case - drive your car in our example ] ) , you go to pick it up several days later and it turns out the company went bankrupt and sold your car to pay some debts and buggered off.

You are
A) Rather ticked off about the whole thing and if you ever see the chap might have a strong word with him.
B) Rather understanding because you're sure the guy had the best intentions and was going to pay you back.


Situation B
You hear about Situation A:
You
A) Think there are two sides to any story
B) You think he's a gigantic asshole or simply incompetant beyond belief ( and criminally incompetant at that ).



Regardless of the persons intentions they have defrauded/stolen or been criminally incompetant/negligent/whatever, and deserve a few years in a cell.

i would still say there is two sides to every story, and only time will tell.

Let me ask you another question:

Say your Car Garage was infact a rather large company like Kiwik-fit, and the situation which you have outlined above actually happened. its the companies fault it went bankrupt and not the actually manager of that particular branch. ie, everyone goes on about dutch boyd owing them money, when in actual fact its not him, its poker spot 'the company' i can only assume it wasnt a 1 man team?

and TBH honest i dont feel its right that he should have to pay out of HIS own Pocket, i do feel it should come from somewhere, ie if the no rake .com deal does work out then the debt should be paid off via that deal, but out of a guys own pocket just because he was associated with the company, i dont think so.

With regards supporting him at the WSOP against Hachem, i wouldnt mind who won.