Finding Your Level

[GlasgowBandit]

Guys lookingf or some advice on finding the correct playing level.

Its often said that you should never move up a level without beating the one your on, however my problem is that I tend to play better although without many cashes at higher levels, but I think its just a matter of time before I start cashing reguarly as each tourney I play at say $100, $200 buy in I am making more progress, I measure progress in terms of where I finnish in comparison to the numbers in the field.

Althought most of my cashes have come at $10, $20 and $25 levels I feel frustrated playing these as I seem t come up reguarly against players who just don't know when they are ebat and can't put a hand down, and theys eem to go on to outdraw you. 

I have read through Mr Red-Dogs advice and I its very sound but when do you know you have found the correct level?

A mistake I often make to stop me going on tilt is limiting the deposits I make, the reason Id o this is I have a compulsive nature to start the gamble if I suffer 2 or 3 bad beats.  If when playing a $100 rebuy I would only allow myself the facility to rebuy once now I know this is not helping me when playing at this level, but its the same with $50 rebuys or $27 rebuys on say Tribecca I seem tow ant to win with the minimum outlay I know this is hard but my mentality would be to lump it all as soon as I end up tilting.

My aim just now is to take two or 3 months off playing poker every night maybe mess around in some low limit cash games to build a bit of a roll but primarily I am hoping this will allow me the chance to save enough money to a few of the bigger tourney a right go.

People talk about  scared money, I am definately not spending scared money but its like some sort of compulsion I have to start gambling one I suffer a few setbacks. 

I would appreciate any advice you give.

[totalise]

I measure progress in terms of where I finnish in comparison to the numbers in the field.

are you doing this in percentile terms, or just finishing place? coming in the top 50 is great and all, but if there are only 200 entrants, it doesn't mean a great deal. Its also possible that you last longer in bigger buyin tournies because you are reluctant to get your stack in the middle, which lets you quite a long time,  for obvious reasons, but its not the way to win. This is a reasonable explanation of your not cashing, but lasting quite a while.

Althought most of my cashes have come at $10, $20 and $25 levels I feel frustrated playing these as I seem t come up reguarly against players who just don't know when they are ebat and can't put a hand down, and theys eem to go on to outdraw you.

same old, same old. Its not hard to understand why you beat worse players much easier then you beat good players. Maybe you mean "i cant get them to fold hands".. which is certianly true, but that just means you dont bet if your intention is to make them fold. One thing is guaranteed, they DONT always outdraw you. Selective memory and the "woe is me" attitude is an inherent danger of playing these people. Its so easy to just ignore all the times AA wins, all the times your set holds up against a flush draw, because thats what is expected. The human mind is a great pattern mapper, when things happen that you expect, you rarely pay attention to it. When things happen that dont normally happen, thats when it sticks in the mind, and that is typically why people remember the beats. Try releasing the inner tension, take a chill, and enjoy the players.. they are doing all they can to let you win! Poker is the only gambling arena I know of where people complain so much about others effectively giving them money.

A mistake I often make to stop me going on tilt is limiting the deposits I make, the reason Id o this is I have a compulsive nature to start the gamble if I suffer 2 or 3 bad beats.

limiting the deposits you make certainly isn't a mistake, its the wisest thing you can do. If you cant get enough onto a site, leave it in neteller. That gives you a window of 2/3 minutes to calm down before you decide to steam tilt the rest of it away for no reason whatsoever.

My aim just now is to take two or 3 months off playing poker every night maybe mess around in some low limit cash games to build a bit of a roll but primarily I am hoping this will allow me the chance to save enough money to a few of the bigger tourney a right go.

this is admirable. The problem most people have in online poker is that they try and move up too quick. They run hot at 1/2 NL, build up a 20k roll, and say "well well, I have +30 buyins for 3/6, lets go straight there".. and then they run into better players, start losing, and then they aren't mentally ready to handle losing $2k in one night, chase the money, and end up pissing it down the drain. The gradual move up in limits isn't just to nurture your skill level growth, its to get you accustomed to losing X amount of money on one hand, and its to get you accustomed to winning X amount on one hand. Slow and steady wins the race. If you get higher up a couple months later then the people playing too quick, its a racing cert that you will be there much longer then most of the hares. Be the tortoise.

I have read through Mr Red-Dogs advice and I its very sound but when do you know you have found the correct level?

ideally, each level you are on will be a stepping stone to the next level... but similarly to the seminal question "how will you know when you meet 'the one'", the answer is the same. "you will know when you get there"

People talk about  scared money, I am definately not spending scared money but its like some sort of compulsion I have to start gambling one I suffer a few setbacks.

there is nothing more devastating then having this mentality. The best thing is to play the lower limits until you can take a beat, smile, and then move on. Despite what people say, it isn't easy, its one of the hardest things to learn to do... and then the higher your buyins get, the higher your urge to gamble gets, and the higher the potential for financial ruin, or hardship. Thats not to say it would happen, but its possible... especially if you have the urge to gamble. Kill the urge to gamble, no matter what it takes. Without that urge, you will do much better, I assure you of it

[ACE2M]

very sound advice.

Kill the urge to gamble being the most prudent i think.
Of course you have to gamble sometimes but let there be reason for it, that isn't that you just lost a big hand to somebody else gambling, remember they are long term losers and thats what gambling gets them.

relentless bad beats eventually just wear off and it barely phases you in the normal run of things. Of course the odd beat comes up in a big tourney or big pot that can't help but piss you off, but you have to step away and then step back when you have forgotten it and realised that you did nothing wrong.

[Swordpoker]

Some excellent words there from totalise.

Playing $100 rebuys with the intention of making money is very difficult in my opinion. The swings of the game mean that even the best poker players in the world would need tens of thousands of dollars of a bankroll to ensure they didn't go bust.

Personally, I like the relative safety of sngs. They're great for a limited bankroll. And every so often, when I've had a good run, I 'treat myself' to a higher buy-in tourney.

[GlasgowBandit]

Yes some cracking advice from Totalise, cheers for that mate.

Gambling is osmething I do out of bordom not even just at poker I will go into a bookies and not bat an eye lid about sticking £250 - £500 on a nag.  Stupid I know, but when your living at home with your old dear its not the end of the world when you take a beating but if you win it makes for a better couple of days, and this is something IA lso have to address.

I have formulated a plan to make sure I am not making daft bets firsly I am in the process of getting a mortgage sorted to buy the old dears house, an investment for the future and I am going start taking driving lessons again and get a car on the road, number of reasons for this gives me more freedom to do what I want and means if I fancy a game of poker I can travel to a dcent game.  Theres also the fact that that i'll cut out the booze, I have made a decision that your lifestyle controls your attitude and in general its time to make some changes.

[totalise]

Bandit,

no worries...

One more thing, and please dont take this the wrong way:

you say you live with your mother, has this always been the case? Maybe this explains your apathy towards money, knowing theres always a roof over your head, and the bills sorted, and the dear to make the food. As you can imagine, if you got a roof over your head, and had that small nagging fear in the back of your head saying "man, if I go BUSTO, i might have to go live on the streets" etc, it potentially has a very benefitial effect on your outlook towards poker/life and gambling in general

I think if you buy the house of your mam, then it will give you a higher level of responsibility where you dont chunk off money so casually, and not drinking whilst playing is a definite plus. Only time I have a beer is when I get deep in a tourney and need some dutch courage to make the correct play, as despite the bravado I sometimes display on here, I still get real nervous when deep in tournies for some rediculous reason!

[GlasgowBandit]

Bandit,

no worries...

One more thing, and please dont take this the wrong way:

you say you live with your mother, has this always been the case?

Indeed it has been I'm only really a pup!!  lol

[Tonji]

Quote from Totalise "The best thing is to play the lower limits until you can take a beat, smile, and then move on"

I like that, sums up what I (try) to do 

[RED-DOG]

You will get a better game, whatever the level, if you play freeze-outs.

[turny]

id give you some advice bandit but as you know from personal experience "im rubbish" 

[turny]

You will get a better game, whatever the level, if you play freeze-outs.

agree with red here 

[matt674]

One day i can only wish of waking up and finding i'm level - unfortunately its always just a dream and i still lean a little to the left...........

[byronkincaid]

You will get a better game, whatever the level, if you play freeze-outs.

Why? If you get a good table where everyone's playing nice and loose you can have like nearly 3 million Big Blinds when the rebuy period ends. If you're on Flushy's table you can easily double that.