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US getting tough about online gambling?
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Topic: US getting tough about online gambling? (Read 3291 times)
Rod Paradise
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US getting tough about online gambling?
«
on:
July 18, 2006, 02:51:43 PM »
Quote
From BBC Online - US arrest hits web gaming shares
The US arrest was a nasty shock for the online gaming sector
Shares in online gambling companies slumped after the boss of online gaming group BetonSports was detained while changing planes in the US.
BetonSports shares ended down 25% in London trading while PartyGaming shares finished 6% lower.
David Carruthers, BetonSports chief executive, was travelling to Costa Rica when federal authorities arrested him at Dallas airport.
A spokesman said the firm was trying to found out the reason for his arrest.
At the close of trading, BetonSports shares were down 24.5 pence, or 16.6%, at 122.5p while PartyGaming shares were down 5.5%.
Puzzled rivals
BetonSports is based in Costa Rica and Mr Carruthers, 48, was heading there with his wife Carol when he was arrested late last night.
BetonSports is waiting to hear why its top executive is being held, and so are all of its online betting rivals.
"They've all been on the phone asking about this," spokeswoman Ginny Pulbrook said.
BetonSports, whose shares are listed in London, is based outside of the US to comply with strict gaming laws there.
Mr Carruthers has attacked a proposed US law banning banks and credit card companies from processing internet gambling payments.
Despite the bill winning the backing of the House of Representatives last week, he said the move would fail due to a backlog of US legislation.
Ms Pulbrook said the arrest had come as a complete surprise and that BetonSports had received no indications of any legal problems.
Online boomtime
Mr Carruthers and his wife have lived in Costa Rica since 2000.
They had been in London for the company's annual meeting (AGM).
BetonSports is just one of the companies cashing in on an internet betting boom and has 1.2 million customers worldwide, many of them in the US.
In the US online gaming is a $12bn a year business that is expanding despite the government's opinion that it violates a law against placing interstate bets using telephone lines.
This motivated the Congressional action.
Four million people gamble online in the UK every month and the sector is forecast to grow by 22% this year.
However the huge rise in online bets has been blamed for a parallel increase in the number of people seeking help for gambling addiction.
Opens a can of worms for all operators of online gambling sites. Hope El Blondie gets back from Vegas OK.
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mikkyT
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
«
Reply #1 on:
July 18, 2006, 03:04:02 PM »
What charges he arrested under? Could be political ones like.
El Blondie should be fine, hes not a US national and not subject to they arse about tit rules banning their own nationals from interstate gambling operations.
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mikkyT
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
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Reply #2 on:
July 18, 2006, 03:06:42 PM »
Ooops...
Quote
A spokesman said the firm was trying to found out the reason for his arrest.
Probably not related, lol... And the media sees it as a way to jump on the ban gambling bandwagon
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tikay
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
«
Reply #3 on:
July 18, 2006, 03:13:19 PM »
Meanwhile on the LSE, 888 Holdings are down 23p at £1.70, while Party Gaming is down 11 at 92p. What a lucky coincidence that the PG Founding Shreholders sold huge tranches of their shares just weeks ago.......
Meanwhile, Severn Trent is up 22p at £12.20. Their raw material, which they process & sell - water - falls out of the sky, entirely free.......
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mikkyT
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
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Reply #4 on:
July 18, 2006, 03:14:21 PM »
Tikay, ever wondered why these your average mug in the street continues to buy Evian water?
Try spelling it backwards...
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matt674
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
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Reply #5 on:
July 18, 2006, 03:20:02 PM »
Was probably arrested for the non-payment of 16 speeding tickets - but then that doesnt really make headline news...........
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Rod Paradise
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
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Reply #6 on:
July 18, 2006, 03:22:28 PM »
Quote from: mikkyT on July 18, 2006, 03:04:02 PM
What charges he arrested under? Could be political ones like.
El Blondie should be fine, hes not a US national and not subject to they arse about tit rules banning their own nationals from interstate gambling operations.
I didn't think Carruthers was either, although we are becoming the 51st state from the looks of it.
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Royal Flush
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
«
Reply #7 on:
July 18, 2006, 04:29:28 PM »
I don't think El Blondie has too much to worry about, blondepoker is just a skin of a cage, basically a super affiliate. The head of bowmans may be worried though!!
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doubleup
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
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Reply #8 on:
July 18, 2006, 07:10:41 PM »
Quote from: mikkyT on July 18, 2006, 03:04:02 PM
What charges he arrested under? Could be political ones like.
El Blondie should be fine, hes not a US national and not subject to they arse about tit rules banning their own nationals from interstate gambling operations.
Errm not quite correct, effectively the US can lay charges against anyone who commits a "crime" that would be illegal if it took place in the US. And thanks to our govenment they can easily get anyone in the UK hauled off to face trial.
As far as this case is concerned some of the charges go back decades and are related to running a sportsbook in New York - so I'm not entirely sure of their relevance to poker. Nevertheless, I wonder how many online site reps are reconsidering trips to LV for the WSOP.
An interesting side issue is whether the US authorities used information provided to identify terrorists to establish that the "victim" was on the flight (he was in transit from London to Costa Rica). The EU has already said that the info requested by the US breaches Data Protection regs, so if the info is being used for purposes other than stated this could lead to problems for the airline that supplied it.
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mikkyT
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
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Reply #9 on:
July 18, 2006, 07:22:18 PM »
Yes, but the crime had to have been commited whilst on US soil UNLESS you are US citizen in which case whilst you are off US soil as well... For instance, if XYZ is legal in country ABC, the US cannot arrest someone for commiting crime XYZ as soon as he lands in the US. Unless of course he is a US citizen and commiting XYZ abroad contravenes us federal law.
So, you run a poker site based in Isle of Mann, and you visit the US on holiday. They cannot arrest you for that. They could arrest you for marketing an illegal intrastate(read: online) gambling setup if you failed to mention that you have play money tables (loop hole in US law). But, to do that you would be commiting a crime as if you where in the US... see?
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doubleup
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
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Reply #10 on:
July 18, 2006, 07:39:52 PM »
Quote from: mikkyT on July 18, 2006, 07:22:18 PM
Yes, but the crime had to have been commited whilst on US soil UNLESS you are US citizen in which case whilst you are off US soil as well... For instance, if XYZ is legal in country ABC, the US cannot arrest someone for commiting crime XYZ as soon as he lands in the US. Unless of course he is a US citizen and commiting XYZ abroad contravenes us federal law.
So, you run a poker site based in Isle of Mann, and you visit the US on holiday. They cannot arrest you for that. They could arrest you for marketing an illegal intrastate(read: online) gambling setup if you failed to mention that you have play money tables (loop hole in US law). But, to do that you would be commiting a crime as if you where in the US... see?
I could really do a lot of research on this, but cos it's hot and I'm tired, I quote someone who is an expert on this area:
"What you should be aware of is not what the UK will or might do about any form of lawful gaming, but what the USA could do under their powers to 'deem' activities which are lawful in foreign jurisdictions as being 'unlawful' in the USA. So, again, money from Internet gaming, if in the form of US dollars, even if played for outside the USA, if the dollars are remitted internationally, this will still give the US a power to prosecute and to extradite"
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Robert HM
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
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Reply #11 on:
July 18, 2006, 08:23:50 PM »
Quote from: doubleup on July 18, 2006, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: mikkyT on July 18, 2006, 07:22:18 PM
Yes, but the crime had to have been commited whilst on US soil UNLESS you are US citizen in which case whilst you are off US soil as well... For instance, if XYZ is legal in country ABC, the US cannot arrest someone for commiting crime XYZ as soon as he lands in the US. Unless of course he is a US citizen and commiting XYZ abroad contravenes us federal law.
So, you run a poker site based in Isle of Mann, and you visit the US on holiday. They cannot arrest you for that. They could arrest you for marketing an illegal intrastate(read: online) gambling setup if you failed to mention that you have play money tables (loop hole in US law). But, to do that you would be commiting a crime as if you where in the US... see?
I could really do a lot of research on this, but cos it's hot and I'm tired, I quote someone who is an expert on this area:
"What you should be aware of is not what the UK will or might do about any form of lawful gaming, but what the USA could do under their powers to 'deem' activities which are lawful in foreign jurisdictions as being 'unlawful' in the USA. So, again, money from Internet gaming, if in the form of US dollars, even if played for outside the USA, if the dollars are remitted internationally, this will still give the US a power to prosecute and to extradite"
Just ask the Nat West 3. They learned the hard way.
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happybhoy
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
«
Reply #12 on:
July 18, 2006, 09:05:48 PM »
Not up on the legal stuff but could a third non-US party take the payments from c/cards and then be used for funding a poker site. Kind of a paypal sort of a deal?
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mikkyT
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
«
Reply #13 on:
July 18, 2006, 09:08:12 PM »
Quote from: doubleup on July 18, 2006, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: mikkyT on July 18, 2006, 07:22:18 PM
Yes, but the crime had to have been commited whilst on US soil UNLESS you are US citizen in which case whilst you are off US soil as well... For instance, if XYZ is legal in country ABC, the US cannot arrest someone for commiting crime XYZ as soon as he lands in the US. Unless of course he is a US citizen and commiting XYZ abroad contravenes us federal law.
So, you run a poker site based in Isle of Mann, and you visit the US on holiday. They cannot arrest you for that. They could arrest you for marketing an illegal intrastate(read: online) gambling setup if you failed to mention that you have play money tables (loop hole in US law). But, to do that you would be commiting a crime as if you where in the US... see?
I could really do a lot of research on this, but cos it's hot and I'm tired, I quote someone who is an expert on this area:
"What you should be aware of is not what the UK will or might do about any form of lawful gaming, but what the USA could do under their powers to 'deem' activities which are lawful in foreign jurisdictions as being 'unlawful' in the USA. So, again, money from Internet gaming, if in the form of US dollars, even if played for outside the USA, if the dollars are remitted internationally, this will still give the US a power to prosecute and to extradite"
They go to all this trouble and yet online poker isn't even illegal in the US! Because the dunces in power can't write the laws correctly lol
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Royal Flush
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Re: US getting tough about online gambling?
«
Reply #14 on:
July 18, 2006, 09:17:16 PM »
Quote from: happybhoy on July 18, 2006, 09:05:48 PM
Not up on the legal stuff but could a third non-US party take the payments from c/cards and then be used for funding a poker site. Kind of a paypal sort of a deal?
Neteller.....
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