Launch of the Amateur Poker Association & Tour (APAT)

[Karabiner]

"...who had the buy in..." is the operative phrase. There is a split between amateur and professional already (with a big grey bit in the middle) because most people can't afford to buy in to a pro's tournament.

This statement is laughable. I would guesstimate that 90% of festival players have some sort of income other than poker. Of the other 10%, half are skint or playing outside thier bankroll.

The amount that someone is willing to pay to enter a tournament has nothing to do with the professional/amateur arguement.

Jon MW seems assume that; professional = wealthy and that amatuer = less wealthy. All to often the reverse is true. Many if not most of the most skilled and successful poker players in this country have incomes from outside sources which allow them to ride 'the variance wave' with much more confidence than the full-time unsponsored professional.

  

[Jon MW]

"...who had the buy in..." is the operative phrase. There is a split between amateur and professional already (with a big grey bit in the middle) because most people can't afford to buy in to a pro's tournament.

This statement is laughable. I would guesstimate that 90% of festival players have some sort of income other than poker. Of the other 10%, half are skint or playing outside thier bankroll.
...

Indeed, but 99.99% of poker players aren't festival players.

[Wardonkey]

My point is simply this.

APAT does not seem to know or cannot explain; who it is trying to exclude, how to exclude them or why it wants to exclude them.

[Jon MW]

Apart from the how I think it's been fairly clearly explained by Tikay, Des and Tightend. And I think who it's for is a more positive way of describing it rather than who it's against.

[Royal Flush]

How is a divided voice a stronger voice?

Having more than one voice on the go is surely at the root of democracy.

I am not sure what your point is m8!

[tikay]

My point is simply this.

APAT does not seem to know or cannot explain; who it is trying to exclude, how to exclude them or why it wants to exclude them.

Hold on War - I did explain earlier, I am working my way through the list. I Posted that I'd answer every question & I will. In some case, we are looking for help via feedback, & we are sure getting that! I'm sorry it's taking so long, but I'm a bit disorganized.

It never crossed our/my mind for a moment that the level of interest woud be this enormous - 40 odd pages on blonde alone, & we have threads on lots of other Poker Fora, all need "servicing".

Add in that my PC died completely on Friday, & my Lappie also fell over, so I'm using a borrowed one on a Vodafone Card.

We did not set out to exclude anyone - we set out to cater for the recreational player, & gained sponsorship on that basis, so that remains the plan. Defining "recreational" is the interesting bit!

Apologies for my tardiness.

[RED-DOG]

Indeed, but 99.99% of poker players aren't festival players.

Go into any cardroom, on any night, whatever the buy in, and ask the players if they have ever played a festival event.

I will guarantee that the majority have.

[Royal Flush]

Indeed, but 99.99% of poker players aren't festival players.

Go into any cardroom, on any night, whatever the buy in, and ask the players if they have ever played a festival event.

I will guarantee that the majority have.

Ask them if they have a problem with the regulars comps, how many would say they do?

[tikay]

Indeed, but 99.99% of poker players aren't festival players.

Go into any cardroom, on any night, whatever the buy in, and ask the players if they have ever played a festival event.

I will guarantee that the majority have.

Agreed Tom. But I'd wager that 99% of those that play Poker have never played it in a Casino. The recretional market is huge. Remember, 1,200,000 Poker related Christmas gifts last year in ONE Department Store chain alone.

PS - Well done last night! (Red got 4th at Walsall, after playing AQ with great guile & cunning).

[RED-DOG]

Indeed, but 99.99% of poker players aren't festival players.

Go into any cardroom, on any night, whatever the buy in, and ask the players if they have ever played a festival event.

I will guarantee that the majority have.

Agreed Tom. But I'd wager that 99% of those that play Poker have never played it in a Casino. The recretional market is huge. Remember, 1,200,000 Poker related Christmas gifts last year in ONE Department Store chain alone.

True. Ok, I'll have a think about this and then tell you the best way to proceed

[tikay]

Indeed, but 99.99% of poker players aren't festival players.

Go into any cardroom, on any night, whatever the buy in, and ask the players if they have ever played a festival event.

I will guarantee that the majority have.

Agreed Tom. But I'd wager that 99% of those that play Poker have never played it in a Casino. The recretional market is huge. Remember, 1,200,000 Poker related Christmas gifts last year in ONE Department Store chain alone.

True. Ok, I'll have a think about this and then tell you the best way to proceed

If only.......!

[RED-DOG]

PS - Well done last night! (Red got 4th at Walsall, after playing AQ with great guile & cunning).

Does this mean I'm a professional?

[Wardonkey]

Tikay, I'm not trying to have a go or make your life any more difficult than it already is. I just keep getting drawn back into the arguement.

I fully understand that your target market is the 'recreational player', I understand the reasons for this and I think this the correct the correct stategy to achieve the goals of the organisation.

I think a misjudgement has been made in the decision to exclude 'professional' players. I think it is inevitable that this will cause big problems for you at some point. I also don't see the point in deliberatley excluding potential customers.

I will be quiet now, I've made my point. As you have said it's your train set, if you won't let me buy a platform ticket then there's not much point in me hanging around the station shouting at porters...  

[tikay]

Tikay, I'm not trying to have a go or make your life any more difficult than it already is. I just keep getting drawn back into the arguement.

I fully understand that your target market is the 'recreational player', I understand the reasons for this and I think this the correct the correct stategy to achieve the goals of the organisation.

I think a misjudgement has been made in the decision to exclude 'professional' players. I think it is inevitable that this will cause big problems for you at some point. I also don't see the point in deliberatley excluding potential customers.

I will be quiet now, I've made my point. As you have said it's your train set, if you won't let me buy a platform ticket then there's not much point in me hanging around the station shouting at porters...  

Hi War,

I never suggested or said you were "having a go", & I'm sorry if it came out that way. You had said we would not answer a specific question, after I had promised I would, so I was just saying, in plain English, "give me time please". I'm old, you know.

We can't be all things to all men, I'm afraid, hence the direction we intend to take.

I will clarify everything, & answer everything, in due course. The ability to type with more than 1 finger would help......

There are organisations already in existence for specific elements of the Poker market, some of which are open to all, & they have been around for a while. APAT will be for recreational players, we just have to define "recreational"! We all know what it means, but it's tougher to turn in into a writen rule.

[tikay]

Tikay, I'm not trying to have a go or make your life any more difficult than it already is. I just keep getting drawn back into the arguement.

I fully understand that your target market is the 'recreational player', I understand the reasons for this and I think this the correct the correct stategy to achieve the goals of the organisation.

I think a misjudgement has been made in the decision to exclude 'professional' players. I think it is inevitable that this will cause big problems for you at some point. I also don't see the point in deliberatley excluding potential customers.

I will be quiet now, I've made my point. As you have said it's your train set, if you won't let me buy a platform ticket then there's not much point in me hanging around the station shouting at porters...  

And I see you are entered for tonight's Super League Tourney (previously known as SuperBlinds I thnk), I'm looking forward to that, playing poker instead of talking about it! Behave, if you are on my table. You know I'm Weak/Passive.