Launch of the Amateur Poker Association & Tour (APAT)

[tikay]

Who is eligible to partake in the APAT Tour Events?

It was originally designed to be for "Recreational Players" only. Feedback from Members is overwhelmingly in favour of keeping it that way. So thats it, it's for Recreational Players ONLY.

By "Recreational Payers" we mean exactly that. Players who do not earn their sole income from Poker.

How do we draw up Rules to police this? We don't. I've always taken the view that if you have Rules, someone will try & get round them. This view is not universally held, but we had the debate, & that was the decision - I'm glad to say.

What do we do if somone enters an APAT Event, who, in our opinion, does not qualify as a "Recreational Player"? We will refuse their entry. And if someone "slips through the net"? Well they might, they just might, but if they do, it'll only be the once. We have to invest some responsibility in our Membership to self-govern this matter.

This issue is "hot", because many full time poker players recognize the value we are offering, & want a slice of the action. We know this from the disappointment voiced by so many, which tells it's own story.

But we will stick to our guns on this, & will not fail our Membership, intended or existing.

To those that are disappointed by this, I'm sorry. But it was always intended to be for Recreational Players only, so that's what the APAT Tour Events will be.

As it happens, we will run our Tournaments differently to the way normal "open to all" Events are run, so it may not suit them anyway. We have our own Standarised Rules, we won't be altering structures or clocks during the event, they will start and finish at a reasonable time of day, & we will rigidly ensure decent standards of behaviour between players. Where we see fit, Penalties, including time way from the table, or even disqualification, will be imposed. These Events are going to be "comfortable" for Recreational players to play in, & our Members will be treated like customers, & given the respect they deserve.

If anyone has already become an APAT Member & now realizes they are not eligible to play, we will refund their Membership. We - I really - acknowledge it's taken some time to clarify this - the amount of feedback, some of it extraodinarily aggressive, did, I confess, shock us. But it's not intended for anyone except Recreational Players. So if you joined up whilst we/I were procrastinating on how to define eligibility, & you think we have taken your money under false pretences, a refund is available. Conversely, the Recreational players who joined up thinking it was designed solely for them will, I hope, be re-assured that we have stuck to our guns.

I will Post further on this, the issue of Pros who wish to play our Events, next. It's not all bad, you know......

[Dewi_cool]

How many members to date Tk please?

[tikay]

Get to bed Mr Tikay!

I'm going to, just one more Post & that's me done for this session!

I'll sleep well, I know that. It's been some week - if only you knew......

[tikay]

How many members to date Tk please?

Too many, it seems, some days!

Don't you Welsh guys sleep, either?

[Dewi_cool]

been, got up, going back

[Nem]

I haven't read all of this thread, but, are foreign nationals allowed to participate in the tournaments held on Pokerstars?

[tikay]

So you are not a Recreational Player, but you'd like to play the sort of event we are running?

Well, it's amazed us how many non-recreational players covet playing Events of the nature we have proposed. For all the noise, we must have got something right!

So - & this is NOT confirmed, but is do-able - we have looked in depth at running a parallel "Pro-Am" Series. Learning from our early experiences, we are sounding out opinions on the viabaility of this. If this satisfies the non-eligible players, perhaps we can do it. They clearly like our package - the way we structure them, & the Added Value - which tells it's own story. (Side, but relevant issue here - I just played a wonderfully structured Event at Gutshot - great structure, reasonably priced, & it pretty much sold out. The demand exists for these comps, but it's hard to find them at reasonable cost, even harder with genuine Added Value).

So yes, it's do-able, & we've invested much effort over the last 2 weeks to see if we can put it together.

Here's where we are. We have found a Sponsor - Added Value is a given in ANY Live Event we run - so that's taken care of. We think we can put on two Pro-Ams in Season One, both after Christmas, when we can source Venues with greater capacity. And we think we can schedule a proper Pro-Am Series in Season Two. Everything would be the same - good structure & clocks, standard Rules, run punctually & efficiently, players treated with respect & civility, & with genuine Added Value. A rare commodity, it seems.

So we just have to decide whether to push the "GO" button. But before we do, & learning from our earlier experiences, what do YOU think?

[totalise]

I cant speak for others.. but the added value was never an issue for me, it was the structure/chance to play with people that see poker in the same way I see it (to have fun and friendly play without the need for WPT behaviour) I would be happy if you kept all your added seats and saved them for the "recreational players" tournaments,  and just had a couple tournies where non-recreational players were allowed to play

[tikay]

OK, thats it for now, bed awaits.

Just one last thing for now. This APAT thing is new, & innovative. It's not easy, but we are not complainng. Personally, I've taken a bit of a battering, as has Des Duffy & Rich Prew. Folks are entitled to think as they please, & object to what we are trying to do. Nobody is forced to like it, or sign up.

I know why I got involved, thats for sure. I witness things when playing Tournament Poker. Poor or ill-thought through Rules, inconsistent rulings, players not treated as well as I think we are entitled, no or little added Value for us, many, many things need fixing. Everyone moans about these things, but do you know what? Nobody actually does anything about it, except moan & groan. I don't do moan. I do do. That's my driver. APAT gives me the chance to get that ball rolling for all of us. Tiny acorns & all that. We have already achieved some of our objectives, we found some Sponsors, & their money is feeding through to the players. Not many can say that.

Have a good day, whatever you are doing. I'll look in to see if any questions need answering (!) later.

[tikay]

I cant speak for others.. but the added value was never an issue for me, it was the structure/chance to play with people that see poker in the same way I see it (to have fun and friendly play without the need for WPT behaviour) I would be happy if you kept all your added seats and saved them for the "recreational players" tournaments,  and just had a couple tournies where non-recreational players were allowed to play

As I said, we CAN set that up we have all the pieces of the jigsaw in place, we just need to make our decision now.

"WPT behaviour". No way, if you are referring to disrespectful behaviour, it won't wash with us. I'm delighted to see that at least one Poster recognizes that.

Thanks Totalise, good food for thought there.

With apologies to dear snoops - stick a fork in me.

[Foggy]

Hi Tikay,

Trust that you have now had a goodnights sleep.

I have recieved Des's APAT letter and understood all the different deadlines, having already sent my request for entry, how do the individuals know that their name will be entered in the draw? Will you be posting a complete list? or wil you be answering Dewi's question on how many members?

[DesD]

Hi Tikay,

Trust that you have now had a goodnights sleep.

I have recieved Des's APAT letter and understood all the different deadlines, having already sent my request for entry, how do the individuals know that their name will be entered in the draw? Will you be posting a complete list? or wil you be answering Dewi's question on how many members?

Hi Foggy,

We will be sending emails to those players who have registered an interest, but who are not members.  The draw will be made from a finalised list of members at midnight on September 3.  Some will say this is a 'money making scheme' to encourage players to join when they may not get allocated a seat in the first tournament.  Unfortunately whether we send those emails out or not, we are likely to be flamed.  Despite the benefits we wll bring for members, there will always be individuals who want to shoot us down.  So be it.  I'm over taking that personally, and we will just get on and achieve what we have set out to achieve. 

What we will seek to do with the email is bring the process to the attention of non members.  We will tell them about the draw for seats.  They can then make their own decision as to whether to join or not.  We have a great deal more to offer than just the first tournament.  There is a whole season of live and online events.  There is our work with sponsors, venues and the gaming commission to standardise rules and structures.  And we might just unearth some very good players along the way.

Finally, we think it is right that players who have made a committment to support the Association should get the first opportunity to play in the tour.

Regards,

Des.

[thediceman]

And we might just unearth some very good players along the way.

Like the guy who won the first internet competition who I believe has online winnings in excess of $300,000.

[TightEnd]

but nevertheless has a full time job!

[thediceman]

but nevertheless has a full time job!

Could the devilfish and El Blondie enter as they are owners of popular website which I'm sure takes up a considerable amount of their time???.

And can the poker brat enter???.