Launch of the Amateur Poker Association & Tour (APAT)

[Sheriff Fatman]

What you are missing is that we do not necessarily want to change this "simple thing"...there are arguments for and against. We have changed a lot of things in two weeks in repsonse to listening to feedback. If we thought it was an open and shut case that the blind strucutre was wrong we would have changed it

Can I ask what you believe the merits of the existing structure are over replacing the 500/1000 level with an 800/1600 level then?

As far as I can see it, doing this doesn't extend the event in any way by adding in an extra level, but it does prevent a huge jump in blinds that is out of proportion with the remainder of the structure.

I'm not trying to be awkward here but I agree with the earlier comments made on the structure.  I just can't see how this is not an 'open and shut' case of common sense applying.

Sheriff

Hi Curtis

The 500/1000 level was brought in as a comfort blanket.  Its fair to say that by the time this level comes into play our amateur players should have approx 40k in chips

The next level 600/1200 is a small jump and won't make any difference to players unless they are short stacked and then it may hurt

Next day the players come back refreshed after a great nights sleep to blinds of 1000/2000
bearing in mind that they have played 7 hours of poker at this point before the blinds start to increase.   Its not like some tournaments where they take out levels so it will finish by 5am
because the casino is closing.   We are not extending the event by adding in an extra level, just allowing more play in the early stages where its needed.

You all know the structure now.  10000 chips and 40min clock.  See you there!

Mel

The structure I'm looking at on the APAT site has the 1000/2000 level as the last one of day one.  Day two starts at 1500/3000.

Therefore, the big jump occurs right at the end of day one.  This is the worst possible time as people who have patiently bided their time will suddenly be faced with a big change in their 'M's right at the end of the day.  Anyone who is forced to take a stand at this time as a result and who gets knocked out will have, IMO, a justifiable reason to feel aggrieved.

There's an inconsistency somewhere between what you're describing and the website.  Not sure which one is correct.

Sheriff

[ifm]

Can we approach the GC directly? In due course, yes, but right now, I think it would be wrong, as we have no track record yet. So in the short term, we inform our Venues that we need them to take our proposals forward for us, & the negotiation proceeds that way. Further down the line, we will open direct channels with the GC if we can.

Gala & Grosvenor? We shall see. Anyone who wishes to host an APAT Event will need to "want us", & if they want us, then we will seek, in return, the right to use our own Rules, & work with them to approach the GC to sek the approval for the modifications. We will NOT use other peoples existing Rules. Does this answer your question?

You are talking about the tour events, i am talking about being a member, the chances of playing the events are likely to be remote so i am assuming i never play a tour event.
I am asking if you can or will attempt to change things in general for all events and if that is the intention how can they be approached.
It's ok though, that will do LOL

[dan]

i dont see the need for a 500/1000 level i would rather a 800/1600 level.

is that what the disussion is, im all confused ,this thread had ran and ran for so long.

[TightEnd]

Can we approach the GC directly? In due course, yes, but right now, I think it would be wrong, as we have no track record yet. So in the short term, we inform our Venues that we need them to take our proposals forward for us, & the negotiation proceeds that way. Further down the line, we will open direct channels with the GC if we can.

Gala & Grosvenor? We shall see. Anyone who wishes to host an APAT Event will need to "want us", & if they want us, then we will seek, in return, the right to use our own Rules, & work with them to approach the GC to sek the approval for the modifications. We will NOT use other peoples existing Rules. Does this answer your question?

You are talking about the tour events, i am talking about being a member, the chances of playing the events are likely to be remote so i am assuming i never play a tour event.
I am asking if you can or will attempt to change things in general for all events and if that is the intention how can they be approached.
It's ok though, that will do LOL

Ian...yes we have "ins" for the association (through personal contacts) with the GC and the Grosvenor. I cannot speak for the Gala personally.

So yes we can approach 2 of the 3 bodies you refer to directly. I don't know about the 3rd

[tikay]

I almost think that there is too much consultation on this. We are very lucky that this amount of consultation is available on this forum, but this work in answering all these queries individually must be running Tikay and Tighty ragged.

There is never going to be a time when everyone is satisfied, if APAT offered everyone their buy in back if they didn't finish in the money there would be someone moaning that it was sent in by cheque and not given in cash on the night!  


APAT is a great idea, will be great, lets see how it runs on the day (no pressure!) and make comments afterwards if we think there could be any improvements. We all know that there will not be any changes until after the first live tourney so why not wait and see?

As for Tighty and Tikay on this thread - I salute you - as Tighty said as he nudged with awake this morning "It's been very hard".  

I'll pass on that closing comment......

But yes, I'm astonished at some of the feedback, the amount, the ferocity, the aggressiveness, the sarcasm, but there is much positive feedback too, on here, in PM's, e-Mails, both on my yahoo addy & my APAT addy, & it's very encouraging when folks say "we know you are doing it for the right reasons, & we know you'd not be involved in any funny business". Tighty & myself have had plenty of rude replies, but to his credit, he's kept his cool, firm & polite all the way. Kudos to him for that, it's not easy to turn the other cheek.

Don't forget, it's not just blonde. The debate is raging on numerous Poker Fora, & Tighty is taking most of the load, bless him. And there is so much personal angst, my reputation has been tarnished by innuendo suggesting we'd nick a few bob. Me!

I may come across as Mr Softee, but when the wind is in my face, I'm in my element.

Tracey, thanks for the kind words, they mean so much.

[Dingdell]

I almost think that there is too much consultation on this. We are very lucky that this amount of consultation is available on this forum, but this work in answering all these queries individually must be running Tikay and Tighty ragged.

There is never going to be a time when everyone is satisfied, if APAT offered everyone their buy in back if they didn't finish in the money there would be someone moaning that it was sent in by cheque and not given in cash on the night!  


APAT is a great idea, will be great, lets see how it runs on the day (no pressure!) and make comments afterwards if we think there could be any improvements. We all know that there will not be any changes until after the first live tourney so why not wait and see?

As for Tighty and Tikay on this thread - I salute you - as Tighty said as he nudged with awake this morning "It's been very hard".  

I'll pass on that closing comment......

But yes, I'm astonished at some of the feedback, the amount, the ferocity, the aggressiveness, the sarcasm, but there is much positive feedback too, on here, in PM's, e-Mails, both on my yahoo addy & my APAT addy, & it's very encouraging when folks say "we know you are doing it for the right reasons, & we know you'd not be involved in any funny business". Tighty & myself have had plenty of rude replies, but to his credit, he's kept his cool, firm & polite all the way. Kudos to him for that, it's not easy to turn the other cheek.

Don't forget, it's not just blonde. The debate is raging on numerous Poker Fora, & Tighty is taking most of the load, bless him. And there is so much personal angst, my reputation has been tarnished by innuendo suggesting we'd nick a few bob. Me!

I may come across as Mr Softee, but when the wind is in my face, I'm in my element.

Tracey, thanks for the kind words, they mean so much.

Shocked by the suggestion you would 'nick a few quid' they must have been judging you by their own standards.  And before anyone else says it I will "Tikay wouldn't bother with a few quid -he's misread it and take the lot!'

[tikay]

Can we approach the GC directly? In due course, yes, but right now, I think it would be wrong, as we have no track record yet. So in the short term, we inform our Venues that we need them to take our proposals forward for us, & the negotiation proceeds that way. Further down the line, we will open direct channels with the GC if we can.

Gala & Grosvenor? We shall see. Anyone who wishes to host an APAT Event will need to "want us", & if they want us, then we will seek, in return, the right to use our own Rules, & work with them to approach the GC to sek the approval for the modifications. We will NOT use other peoples existing Rules. Does this answer your question?

You are talking about the tour events, i am talking about being a member, the chances of playing the events are likely to be remote so i am assuming i never play a tour event.
I am asking if you can or will attempt to change things in general for all events and if that is the intention how can they be approached.
It's ok though, that will do LOL

We believe that when our Rules have been used a few times, & the feedback shows how much better/more consistent they are, others will adopt them. So even if you don't play our Tour Events, even if you don't become a Member in fact, it's likely that the APAT bow-wave will impact on Poker locally, regionally, & nationally. Those who don't want that will be able to join APAT & lobby for change via us, or do their own thing. The important thing is that the catalyst for change is there.

[tikay]

Tighty & tikay,tag-team titans.....

Bring 'em on!

[TightEnd]

Tighty & tikay,tag-team titans.....

Bring 'em on!

You can wear the lycra!

[dan]

Tighty & tikay,tag-team titans.....

Bring 'em on!

You can wear the lycra!

fantasizing again 

[tikay]

I almost think that there is too much consultation on this. We are very lucky that this amount of consultation is available on this forum, but this work in answering all these queries individually must be running Tikay and Tighty ragged.

There is never going to be a time when everyone is satisfied, if APAT offered everyone their buy in back if they didn't finish in the money there would be someone moaning that it was sent in by cheque and not given in cash on the night!  


APAT is a great idea, will be great, lets see how it runs on the day (no pressure!) and make comments afterwards if we think there could be any improvements. We all know that there will not be any changes until after the first live tourney so why not wait and see?

As for Tighty and Tikay on this thread - I salute you - as Tighty said as he nudged with awake this morning "It's been very hard".  

I'll pass on that closing comment......

But yes, I'm astonished at some of the feedback, the amount, the ferocity, the aggressiveness, the sarcasm, but there is much positive feedback too, on here, in PM's, e-Mails, both on my yahoo addy & my APAT addy, & it's very encouraging when folks say "we know you are doing it for the right reasons, & we know you'd not be involved in any funny business". Tighty & myself have had plenty of rude replies, but to his credit, he's kept his cool, firm & polite all the way. Kudos to him for that, it's not easy to turn the other cheek.

Don't forget, it's not just blonde. The debate is raging on numerous Poker Fora, & Tighty is taking most of the load, bless him. And there is so much personal angst, my reputation has been tarnished by innuendo suggesting we'd nick a few bob. Me!

I may come across as Mr Softee, but when the wind is in my face, I'm in my element.

Tracey, thanks for the kind words, they mean so much.

Shocked by the suggestion you would 'nick a few quid' they must have been judging you by their own standards.  And before anyone else says it I will "Tikay wouldn't bother with a few quid -he's misread it and take the lot!'

It's actually really rather bizarre, when I look back on it. I mean, we got mixed up with our numbers early on & some confusion reigned for a few days on Reg Fees. Our fault, I said sorry, case closed. Meanwhile, it got inferred that we were creaming off the difference between £67.50 & £68.25. A one-eyed donkey could reason out that it was a simple mistake, but within no time, it had been suggested we were at it. One very well known blonde, who I mistakenly thought knew me better, even PM'd me to tell me "it's not a good idea to syphon off that 75p, people will notice".... Really?

When they nit-pick & scrape the bottom of the barrel to that degree, well, you have to smile.

[NoflopsHomer]

Tighty & tikay,tag-team titans.....

Bring 'em on!

Tighty and Tikay in a previous life....

[TightEnd]

Hang on a minute, that's Rod Paradise and Jac Arama isn't it?

[Dingdell]

What you are missing is that we do not necessarily want to change this "simple thing"...there are arguments for and against. We have changed a lot of things in two weeks in repsonse to listening to feedback. If we thought it was an open and shut case that the blind strucutre was wrong we would have changed it

Can I ask what you believe the merits of the existing structure are over replacing the 500/1000 level with an 800/1600 level then?

As far as I can see it, doing this doesn't extend the event in any way by adding in an extra level, but it does prevent a huge jump in blinds that is out of proportion with the remainder of the structure.

I'm not trying to be awkward here but I agree with the earlier comments made on the structure.  I just can't see how this is not an 'open and shut' case of common sense applying.

Sheriff

Hi Curtis

The 500/1000 level was brought in as a comfort blanket.  Its fair to say that by the time this level comes into play our amateur players should have approx 40k in chips

The next level 600/1200 is a small jump and won't make any difference to players unless they are short stacked and then it may hurt

Next day the players come back refreshed after a great nights sleep to blinds of 1000/2000
bearing in mind that they have played 7 hours of poker at this point before the blinds start to increase.   Its not like some tournaments where they take out levels so it will finish by 5am
because the casino is closing.   We are not extending the event by adding in an extra level, just allowing more play in the early stages where its needed.

You all know the structure now.  10000 chips and 40min clock.  See you there!

Mel

The structure I'm looking at on the APAT site has the 1000/2000 level as the last one of day one.  Day two starts at 1500/3000.

Therefore, the big jump occurs right at the end of day one.  This is the worst possible time as people who have patiently bided their time will suddenly be faced with a big change in their 'M's right at the end of the day.  Anyone who is forced to take a stand at this time as a result and who gets knocked out will have, IMO, a justifiable reason to feel aggrieved.

There's an inconsistency somewhere between what you're describing and the website.  Not sure which one is correct.

Sheriff

Which one is it please?

[dik9]

It's actually really rather bizarre, when I look back on it. I mean, we got mixed up with our numbers early on & some confusion reigned for a few days on Reg Fees. Our fault, I said sorry, case closed. Meanwhile, it got inferred that we were creaming off the difference between £67.50 & £68.25. A one-eyed donkey could reason out that it was a simple mistake, but within no time, it had been suggested we were at it. One very well known blonde, who I mistakenly thought knew me better, even PM'd me to tell me "it's not a good idea to syphon off that 75p, people will notice".... Really?

When they nit-pick & scrape the bottom of the barrel to that degree, well, you have to smile.

Hope it wasn't me? What I said was

Tikay,

I didn't consider for one moment that you or Richard would be trying to squeeze ANY money out of it. I was just concerned that it would breach Gaming Commission Guidelines, even if it was 10 pence. This was what was concerning me? .......

I have raised my concerns earlier and will not requestion as I know you have a great deal to contend with, but regarding rules and structures, and "standard" rules. I have read APAT's rules, who made them? Not saying they are bad, but surely the members should have a say. Is this not what the membership fee was for, to have a say? The structure issue is a prime example, are we (TD's) expected to follow these guidelines without any input?