Bit of Discussion Please .........

[GlasgowBandit]

This is a hand from the £25 deepstack freezeout at the Cincinnatti.

Bit of info on the table. Self deal tourney I am in seat 2.  Have played really tight only been involved in 3 hands so far 2 went to a showdown the other I won uncontested. 

I am  on the button and i am dealt blinds are 150/250

UTG calls and then it passes round to me and I flat call.  The BB raises upto 600 total after SB makes up.  UTG folds and then I call.

Flop comes down with As I think this is almost the ideal flop so when the BB checks I check behind him, when he raised pre flop i thought he might have had a weak ace or a small pair. the turn brings the 10c this time bet is 1200 I come OTT for another 2k basically putting my oppo all in he has 700 or so left and puts it in, at which point he asks "are you making a move on me?"  He pushes and I insta call he fires over Ah faster than you can say "jack be quick" I felt as if i had just been hit by a tonne of bricks!!

What would you have done the way the hand played out?  Could i have got away from it?

[Wardonkey]

With that board, your going to lose all your chips every time....

Unless...

You raise preflop, if the BB re-raises then then you can pass your AJ.

Most of the time he will re-raise unless he fancies letting 2 players see a flop when OOP.

Raising rather than limping would have averted disaster most times in this case.

[BrumBilly]

If I'm reading this correctly then the outcome was inevitable given the holdings though I wouldn't have played either as described. Just a matter of personal judgement/style I guess.  I take it the SB didn't call the 350 extra preflop? Sounds like you both tried to trap each other.

1. Holding AA in the BB I'm not making it 350 more to go with 3 limpers while I hold AA in the BB with 1000 in the middle and 1900 remaining I'd push and either take it down there and then or let someone gamble with me. (£25 comp. Keep it simple)

2. You hit top pair and four to the nut flush draw but if u miss your draw on the turn you're less sure where you are in the hand. Why invite a potentially tricky call on the river? Take the initiative especially with that flop.


When the money went in you still had a draw and as for 'getting away from it', short of folding preflop NO CHANCE, unless the dealer in the self dealt comp is POOR as is sometimes the case and you've happened to glimpse his hole cards.

Will

[BrumBilly]

Wardonkey has a point about the preflop raise but if you're gonna fold to a reraise then that would be self defeating IMO which is why I wouldn't be raising with AJ in that spot (Styles make fights in boxing...same in poker). How much extra did you have? 100 change plus? Were you virtually all in urself?

Also I think matey boy's 'making a move' comment was pretty lame.

Will.

[mikkyT]

Its £25 but its a 10k deepstack short handed F/O (7 to table max)

[BrumBilly]

Hi,

Sounds like a comp with a lot of play in it. Nearest thing to that round here is a £30 freezeout with 4k starting chips. Doesn't attract too many players but I much prefer taking my money there than to the many £10 rebuys (HOUSE!!). The OP reraised 'matey boy' all in but I've still no idea how deep OP's stack was at this time (that'd have some bearing). The blinds weren't big so for 'matey boy' to have such a low stack means you should have a good read on what type of player he is (assuming you've been sat at same table)

Will

[GlasgowBandit]

After i make the call i still have 6.5 k, at the time the table was 5 handed clearly i thought i was favourite, i just never expected alll 4 aces to be out. 

[BrumBilly]

Hi,

Thanks for clarifying the chip details. Like I said earlier, I think your limp preflop was fine. Where I differed was on checking the flop (I'd have pushed). I'd be interested to know if those who suggested you should raise then fold to a preflop reraise would still advise this given the stack sizes. If so, what amount would they suggest raising?


Will.

[thetank]

If you play the hand in this manner (limping pre-flop) how do you proceed when the flop does not bring 4 diamonds, but just the bare Ace with your Jack kicker.

I raise here, commiting a little more chips pre-flop, makes play on future streets easier. It also greatly increases the % of time that you will win the pot.

As WD says, AA may have re-raised, allowing you to get away relatively cheaply.

[BrumBilly]

How do I play the flop when it misses me? I check/fold. If I get shown junk then so be it. If I raise preflop and get raised for the amount the 'villain' had in this scenario, I'd call most times in a casino/cardroom and fold most times in a home game.

How much is 'a little more chips' in this scenario? If BB has low/mid pocket pair he's surely not going to call off his stack, he'll raise all in and hope he's in a coin toss.

Like I said in original response, styles make fights and there isn't any one 'right' way to play this. The fact that the 'villain' in the original post was down to such a short stack needs to be taken into consideration. The manner in which I'd seen him lose his chips would carry some weight.

Will.

[thetank]

A bare pair of aces is what I meant, without the flush draw.

Sorry for ambiguous post.

[BrumBilly]

No worries mate,

I hear what you're sayin. By limping I get in myself into tricky spots with AJ and similar hands and that's a trade off. I just find that I get better results by not raising with AQ, AJ and often AK when I have a decent stack. If I'm low stack or it's the business end of a tourny it's a different story but early doors I don't like to raise preflop, would rather see a flop and work from there (folding more than my fair share of winners) rather than attempting to push people off their hands.

Cheers for sharing your thoughts,

Will

[thetank]

I've just always raised pre-flop with those kind of hands ever since I tangled with a big stack in a large blackpool comp.

I called pre-flop with AQs, hit an ace and a flush draw on the flop.

I bet and got raised on the flop. Then had to call two milking (but still large) bets on the turn and river. It pretty much cripled my stack. The big blind had hit two small pair, even the smallest of mini-raises would have had him fold pre-flop.

[BrumBilly]

I know where you're coming from but that's the type of situation my limp is designed to avoid. I hate having raises called by 3 players, one of whom is bound to hit middle pair on the flop, improve on the turn and bleed me dry. I prefer to see a flop cheap and if it doesn't hit me big, release the hand. Bear in mind I'm only talking from my own experience (Star City, Gutshot, J10, Gala) of seeing this kind of play where so called 'players' call with any two cards to bust raisers who they put on over cards. Combine the effect of raising on a table where 3 mates (same village) call you and you're pretty much dead.

Be lucky,

Will.

[Royal Flush]

You say this is 5 handed, then be raising AJ!!! If you don't you won't hang around for too long!