uk on critical alert

[mikkyT]

1984

[AndrewT]

Here I am in my hotel room, due to fly back home tomorrow. Today's Virgin flight to Gatwick will leave seven and a half hours late - hopefully things will have got a bit back on schedule by tomorrow.

As ever with things like this, views quickly become polarised. What is interesting from watching the US news, and comparing with what's on the BBC site, is how quickly the US government were to mention Al-Qaeda in connection with this. No British government official, police or security representative has said anything like this - merely stating the facts as they are (people arrested in connection with airplane plot). The main reason for this is not to jeopardise any potential trials.

Of course, it is highly convienient for the US government that they can put Al-Qaeda back in the forefront of people's minds. In the two weeks I've been out here, the US news channels have had continuous coverage of the Israel/Hezbollah confict - a conflict in which the US armed forces are not involved. Meanwhile, Iraq continues to descend into civil war, all the while with US troops on the ground, yet it warrants no more than footnotes on the news. Given how parochial US news normally is, I find it incredibly interesting that the news networks would volunteer to give blanket coverage to a foreign conflict above one in which US forces are involved. You can draw your own conclusions as to why this might be.

As I type, a CNN reporter has heard from a 'US government source' that two of the suspects arrested met with an Al-Qaeda member out in Pakistan. 'Hey folks, they're still active - you're still in danger'.

On a completely unrelated topic, there have just been primaries for US senate elections, in which a prominent pro-Iraq war Democrat was beaten by an anti-war Democrat. Polls showed that the US public had turned against the Iraq war and were ready to vote against pro-war candidates in the Senate elections. Virtually all Republican politicians are pro-war. A heightened risk of terrorist activity can only help the Republican cause, as voters naturally rally around right wing parties in times of threats.

To those who are in the 'it's all a goverment plot' camp, Ariston's right - it's time to put the Guardian crossword and half-fat, decaf, cappuccino down and get out into the real world. There is a malevolent influence upon young Muslims in the UK. People who are very religious are, by definition, easily influenced and prone to not question information they are given by people in positions of power, and religious figures are very powerful in the Muslim community. Those who have political agendas can easily subvert their acolytes to do very terrible things in the name of their cause.

Long-term, the answer is to get people to think for themselves about things, and promote logical thought and personal information gathering as tools with which people make decisions about their lives. This will be difficult as long as people voluntarily infect their children with religion, which promotes a 'I will tell you all you need to know' agenda, closes people's minds and leads them to shun new information.

[thetank]

 '' those who give up their liberties for security deserve neither liberty nor security. ''

Are you referring to a Bejamin Franklin quotation here? If so, I think the old man's been slightly misquoted.

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

The key part for me, is the word essential.

Exactly how essential is hand luggage?

That and it was written in the 18th century, by a rebelious colonial. 


As for successes of security services, how many jumbo jets blew up yesterday?

[BrumBilly]

The Brasilian lad that the police shot to bits DID NOT RUN....he WALKED onto the tube..sat down then got his head blasted off. (I know how I'd feel/act if that was my brother)

I remember when the news broke and there was an 'eye witness' being interviewed on the scene saying that the guy ran into the station....this was a lie (may be the mystery witness just wanted to be on the telly or was paid, I don't know but his account of events was a fabrication and the beginning of the whole coverup once they realised they'd executed an innocent man).

IMO ID cards won't prevent the kind of terrorism we're facing. If all people were made to feel welcome I reckon communities/groups would police themselves better and identify 'bad apples'. As it is, the police turn a blind eye when told about scummy drug dealers and gun/kife carrying thugs so what chance of anyone coming forward with information on 'shady' characters who might be involved in, or know about, terrorist plots?

I've been thinking about growing a beard again, just for a change for a few months but last time I grew one everyone asked me if I'd 'turned muslim' so at the risk of looking like 'fair game' in the eyes of cops with guns I'll just keep reaching for my gillette.

Clean shaven, Will.

[BrumBilly]

Why the fixation with planes? If terrorists wanted to create real 'mass murder' surely all they'd have to do is carry out a chemical attack on the tube.

As far as I can see, you can't defend against it. The only way you stop it is if they give you an opportunity to by behaving like nutters and running their mouth off over the phone etc. All I know is I'll walk any place, take any plane and if they get me, they get me. I won't be dictated to on that level.

[thetank]

If there were a nationwide DNA databse, I wouldn't want any info gained from it to be used as evidence in court.

It would be ridiculouly easy then, to frame people for crimes that they didn't commmit. Not happy with the police wielding the power of sending anyone they don't like down for whatever crime they can't be bothered solving this week. Just need to save some of that saliva from when they last spat at you.

It could point the authorities in the right direction though, to obtain more concrete evidence.

[thetank]

1984

George Orwell's satire on CCTV and the like.

He was just afraid everyone would find out about his paedophillic tendencies.

Not really, I got that from a paper I didn't read.

[The Rivercard]

 '' those who give up their liberties for security deserve neither liberty nor security. ''

Are you referring to a Bejamin Franklin quotation here? If so, I think the old man's been slightly misquoted.

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

The key part for me, is the word essential.


  well said

Exactly how essential is hand luggage?

That and it was written in the 18th century, by a rebelious colonial. 


As for successes of security services, how many jumbo jets blew up yesterday?

[londonpokergirl]

Why the fixation with planes? If terrorists wanted to create real 'mass murder' surely all they'd have to do is carry out a chemical attack on the tube.

As far as I can see, you can't defend against it. The only way you stop it is if they give you an opportunity to by behaving like nutters and running their mouth off over the phone etc. All I know is I'll walk any place, take any plane and if they get me, they get me. I won't be dictated to on that level.

 

[Mr F]

They closed off part of another road last night, I've heard they were searching the house of a guy I went to middle school with.  I also heard last night that residents near the woodland area police have been searching have been contacting police for a while now about strange cars going in and out of the area, but have been told that the police were aware and not to tell anyone. 

Thing is I've heard so much now about all this stuff that i'm getting mixed up between what my mates who live round there have said and what has been released from the media.

But it doesn't really seem to have had a massive affect.  to be honest most people just thought they were drugs raids, it's all the norm round here!!

[BrumBilly]

I think all the car activity in the woods was Collymore and co.

[Mr F]

I think all the car activity in the woods was Collymore and co.

Nah that's not the dogging area round here.

Just looked at the list of suspects and I'm pretty sure that it is the guy I went to school with.

[BrumBilly]

I'll bow to your superior knowledge!

Re the school thing, I reckon we could make a weird and wonderful list of all the people we were at school with (not necessarily 'famous', in my case they're probably more 'infamous'...they have a point when they say it's the quiet ones you should be wary of!)

[Mr F]

I'll bow to your superior knowledge!

Re the school thing, I reckon we could make a weird and wonderful list of all the people we were at school with (not necessarily 'famous', in my case they're probably more 'infamous'...they have a point when they say it's the quiet ones you should be wary of!)

Agreed

[Rooky9]

Why the fixation with planes? If terrorists wanted to create real 'mass murder' surely all they'd have to do is carry out a chemical attack on the tube.

As far as I can see, you can't defend against it. The only way you stop it is if they give you an opportunity to by behaving like nutters and running their mouth off over the phone etc. All I know is I'll walk any place, take any plane and if they get me, they get me. I won't be dictated to on that level.

 

Its not just the mass murder though - its the images they want too.