Trouble with Sets

[TightEnd]

Playing $2-4 and $5-10 and I have been hitting sets, on the rare occasions I hit them, on dangerous boards

I lost a buy in when calling a button raise with 88 and seeing a flop of  8 10 J (two hearts) heads up, leading out and being raised. My problem here was his range of hands could be any of the overpairs, TPTK or the trip 10s or trip Jacks or the nut flush draw or any flush draw!



However this one intrigued me. New site for me so I'm working out how to export an hand history, apologies


Anyway there are 4 limpers (9 handed table) for $10.

I am in the BB with    , see a free flop

flop

 


I lead out for $50, get minimum raised to $100 by UTG and the cut off flat calls

it comes back to me, $355 in the pot

UTG is shortstacked, he has $150 behind
Cut off has $1000 behind
I have $800 behind

I have the cut off..plays a lot of suited hands and is quite creative/funky, on the diamond draw
I have UTG on an overpair

Are you re-raising here?

How much?

I raise another $400 trying to isolate the small stack and commit myself to it in the eyes of the big stack, the UTG moves all in (thats fine)  and then the Cut off flat calls.

This is getting big

The turn is the 

no doubt giving the cut off the flush but giving me a straight flush draw and a redraw to the house


With $1300 or so in the pot and me having $400 left I'm not folding, in it goes..i'd call his bet setting me in on the turn. Yes/no?

He calls and flips 

UTG flips 


the river is a blank

Another buy in plus a bit gone


Be as harsh as you like or as constructive as you like, just help me out here

[ifm]

That board is soooooo bad i think i'd see the turn before putting any more in TBH
On the turn well it couldn't be a worse card, give it up.

[TightEnd]

and of course straight afterwards i thought to myself "flat call the minimum raise on the flop and keep the pot small and then check fold on a diamond turn"  

by the time it gets back to the cut off on the flop he has to put in $400 to win $900 or so if he hits his diamond.  ignoring the possibility that other diamonds are out he's being offered 9/4 to hit 9 outs twice so it appears to me that if I raise again on the flop I raised too little, I might as well push it in

[bolt pp]

I dont like the bet on flop, i'd check, if it gets checked to the turn unlucky but i'm looking to check raise and massively over raise which you were afforded the opportunity to do once he doubled it back at you.

I think your unlucky that you've come up against two players that had so many possibilities they wernt getting away from it.

I dont think a flopped straight would play it like that with 2 diamonds on the board which is why the check-over raise on the flop lets em know what you've got and makes it more difficult to call, i'm surprised that it didnt go all in when you raised $400 on the flop.

I think they(especially the cut off seat) played the hand poorly.

[Junior Senior]

just unlucky on all counts there IMO. - the first one is v dangerous and i think i just call on flop try to keep the pot small - but i would already have a sinking feeling here - thats the problem with small / bottom sets on a connected board


obv your profit from flopping a set comes from catching a guy with AA or KK on a raggy board or when the raiser has AK and you have say 55 and it comes A59. - they can win big pots these little sets but can be costly - ul

[ACE2M]

You have to flat call the flop against so many limpers the flop has hit someone possibly harder than you. If you re raise there the only raise is all in i think, the bigstack is correct to call your bet with his holding, he would be making a mistake to call your all in.

Big stack can safely assume you don't have a bigger flush draw than him so he knows a diamond wins (that doesn't pair the board) and with your commitment he can likely expect to get all your chips.

The right play imo is flat call the flop prepared to check fold to anything weighty on the turn from the bigstack if a danger card hits.

If the diamond doesn't hit the turn the shorty moves in after your check and you get to re raise all in against the bigstacks call, this should get it heads up as his pot odds have evaporated.

flat call and use the shortstack on the turn if a blank hits.

[riverdave]

I think either of these 2 options could be correct and i can't see another possibility that is right/good play. Either flat call the mini raise and bin on the turn unless you are priced in to see the house up or possible straight flush, or all in on the flop. I would probably take the allin route but i know he is almost certainly calling any flush draw and he is not going anywhere with straight and flush draws even though they could be partially dead.

[snoopy1239]

Boy, this is a tough 1.

One way of looking at it though is to think 'what am I going to get paid off by?'

Normally when I hit trips, I am looking to catch someone with top pair or top two or, as Junior suggests, when you outflop an obvious overpair. In these situations, your opponent is likely to be up shit creek with few outs. Here, however, your set is so much more vulnerable and, due to the texture of the flop, that pay-off isn't going to happen. The only hand that will pay you with a weaker hand is a flush draw that misses, and even then you won't get paid on the River when a blank arrives unless all the dosh has gone in previously.

Therefore, I'd prefer to keep the pot small and hit hard on the turn (probably with a check-raise from an inevitable bet) when the drawers don't have the pot odds to call.

I don't think leading out for $50 here is a wise move. You are out of position and any call or raise doesn't give you the information you need on the other players' hands to enable you to continue in confidence. Also, it's not the type of pot you want to start building, especially when you know you're going to get callers.

What I'd rather do is either check-raise a chunky amount, or, more preferably, check call, then check-raise the Turn.

Once the straight card comes, I'd simply call and then overbet if you fill up on the River.

I'm not too keen on reaching a position on the Turn where you are saying 'Well, I'm pot commited now so I'm not folding'. If this was going to be the case, then you might as well have just stuck it in on the flop.

The key here is not to treat this as a 'double-up' hand.

[GlasgowBandit]

I'm all in as soon as that flop comes down too dangerous to let them see any more cards at a cheapish rate where they have the odds to make the call.  If you put evrything in on the flop its a much bigget decision for the.

Sometimes its better to win the smaller pots than loose the bigger pots.

[Royal Flush]

 

[The Baron]

I think Tighty has one of two options here.

a) The Snoopy option - slow down on the flop and hit the turn hard as long as it isn't a scare card.

b) The not so obvious Glasgow Bandit and Ace2M move of reraising all in. You deny pot odds to the drawers and catch an overpair cold. I see nothing wrong with taking the skill out of this hand and forcing your opponents to gamble. It's lovely playing all the streets with subtle moves Lindgrenesque, but this is one of those times where an overraise works IMO. If they hit you relaod, but it went in ahead and you forced the error. Forcing the error is the key to stacking people. If they pass you protected your hand and won a small pot.

[The Baron]

Just reread Tighty's hand and realised there was no pre flop raising. I'd go for my option a) over option b). lol

[temp0r]

i'm with snoopy. it's obviously very dangerous but if the turns a blank i'd fire out about the size of the pot. any 2,3,7,8 or diamond and i'm probably giving it up.

[snoopy1239]

Don't forget that you could be behind on the flop.

[Royal Flush]

I am shipping it in on the flop after being raised.