VERY Badly played hand ? ......

[M3boy]

This is the hand that crippled me in last nights $5k f/o

10 left................

MTT Table 2 11566940-211 Holdem No Limit 1,200/2,400
[Sep 8 02:41:45] : Hand Start.
[Sep 8 02:41:45] : Seat 2 : Blondem3boy has $28,360
[Sep 8 02:41:45] : Seat 3 : blackhawkb has $24,821.80
[Sep 8 02:41:45] : Seat 4 : seanad has $27,416.40
[Sep 8 02:41:45] : Seat 5 : Wes 350 has $24,367.70
[Sep 8 02:41:45] : Seat 9 : oldmanRAD has $37,881.56
[Sep 8 02:41:45] : oldmanRAD is the dealer.
[Sep 8 02:41:45] : Blondem3boy posted small blind.
[Sep 8 02:41:45] : blackhawkb posted big blind.
[Sep 8 02:41:45] : Game [211] started with 5 players.
[Sep 8 02:41:45] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Sep 8 02:41:45] : Seat 2 : Blondem3boy has
[Sep 8 02:41:48] : seanad folded.
[Sep 8 02:41:51] : Wes 350 called 2,400 and raised 2,400
[Sep 8 02:41:54] : oldmanRAD folded.
[Sep 8 02:41:56] : Blondem3boy called 3,600
[Sep 8 02:41:57] : blackhawkb folded.
[Sep 8 02:41:57] : Dealing flop.
[Sep 8 02:41:57] : Board cards [ ]
[Sep 8 02:41:57] : Stakes: 1,200/2,400 Current level: 11 Level up in: 13 min. Break in: 14 min. Players : 10
[Sep 8 02:42:00] : Blondem3boy checked.
[Sep 8 02:42:03] : Wes 350 bet 4,800
[Sep 8 02:42:06] : Blondem3boy called 4,800
[Sep 8 02:42:06] : Dealing turn.
[Sep 8 02:42:06] : Board cards [ ]
[Sep 8 02:42:09] : Blondem3boy checked.
[Sep 8 02:42:14] : Wes 350 bet 14,767.70 and is All-in
[Sep 8 02:42:17] : Stakes: 1,200/2,400 Current level: 11 Level up in: 13 min. Break in: 14 min. Players : 10
[Sep 8 02:42:23] : Blondem3boy : hmmmmm
[Sep 8 02:42:30] : It's your turn.
[Sep 8 02:42:30] : Blondem3boy has 10 seconds to respond.
[Sep 8 02:42:37] : Stakes: 1,200/2,400 Current level: 11 Level up in: 12 min. Break in: 14 min. Players : 10
[Sep 8 02:42:38] : Blondem3boy folded.
[Sep 8 02:42:39] : Wes 350 wins 21,600 as the last player standing
[Sep 8 02:42:42] : Hand is over.
[Sep 8 02:42:42] : Stakes: 1,200/2,400 Current level: 11 Level up in: 12 min. Break in: 14 min. Players : 10


Your views on how you would of played this hand? And what you think Wes 350 had.

[Royal Flush]

Is this a complete piss take?

[JungleCat03]

5 handed blinds are big, I'm reraising jacks preflop but if i flat call then i get it in on the flop when he bets. You've very likely got the best hand. If he does have QQ KK AA then you're never going to be able to find this out with your relative stack sizes.

If I've got to the turn, then i call his allin.

He's got anything from a bluff to a smallerl pocket pair like 7's 8's or 9's maybe 2nd pair or a high pair that's beating you. I don't think based on the action you can narrow his hand down massively.

He almost certainly doesn't have a T though i would  say.  I don't see why he would shove. I think he would take more care to make sure he gets you to match his stack in the middle and there's no obvious draws out there to protect against.

[matt674]

i reraise preflop then all in on the flop.

[ifm]

5 handed blinds are big, I'm reraising jacks preflop but if i flat call then i get it in on the flop when he bets. You've very likely got the best hand. If he does have QQ KK AA then you're never going to be able to find this out with your relative stack sizes.

If I've got to the turn, then i call his allin.

He's got anything from a bluff to a smallerl pocket pair like 7's 8's or 9's maybe 2nd pair or a high pair that's beating you. I don't think based on the action you can narrow his hand down massively.

He almost certainly doesn't have a T though i would  say.  I don't see why he would shove. I think he would take more care to make sure he gets you to match his stack in the middle and there's no obvious draws out there to protect against.

Agreed 100%

[M3boy]

Is this a complete piss take?

I wish it was James It was one of those "omg why did I do that?" hand

Thanks Rod n IFM

Here was my "warped" thought process :

1) The player who raised had been VERY quiet, folding to even samll raises even after he had made an initial raise himself, checking lots of flops and folding to a large bet, even showing top pair. He looked to me to be someone I could get a nice double up from.
2) Re Raise preflop? For the things mentioned above I decided to flat call and was hoping for a flop EXACLY like the one I got.
3) Check to him on the flop was to see if he had it any of it - if he checked I would know He didnt have a piece of it and as it was such a "non scary" flop, could afford to give him a free card if necessary to hit something. Him betting let me know he had.
4) The flat call on the flop had the intention of getting a non A on the turn (I had him on A 10 at this point) and then check raising him all in on the turn - I dont think he could of passed his A10 then as he would of had too much money in the middle
5) Once the turn card came a 10 (my nightmare card), like I said, my initial take on his hand was A 10 so I folded leaiving myself a "shot" a recovery

I am trying to "trust" my instincts more and more.

Honestly, I felt if I had re raised him pre or post flop he would of folded. Should I of done this anyway? Probably.
Greedy play? More than likely, but with the blinds like they were I wanted to double there and then to take it to the FT

Rod, you say probably not had a 10, and I can understand why because of exactly the reasons you mentioned, but here was a player that was VERY predictable (I had played most of the tourney with him) He ONLY bet when he had good hands or hit flops, and tended to overbet when he hit big.

I do appreciate more comments though.

[ifm]

Do you not think it was a standard continuation bet?

[M3boy]

No IFM . Like I said, he had played the WHOLE tourney very predictably. Not once did I see him make a continuation bet or an attempt to steal a pot. To me, he was a straight foward "bet if I have it" type player. He had moved all in on 3 occassions on the flop/turn and was called all 3 times. 3 times he had a set.

[matt674]

You say that you played the hand very badly but at the same time you are trying to justify why you did what you did.

If you feel you played the hand correctly and would make the same play over and over again then you need to change the title of the thread - if you think you did play the hand badly then you need to stop trying to convince yourself you made the right play and work out where you feel you went wrong and make sure you rectify it in future tournaments.

[M3boy]

Thx Matt - Title changed. (Point taken)

I had intended on posting why I did what I did, but wanted to get people to post on here that it was a terrible played hand - because on the face of it - it would seem so. If I had read this hand history from someone else, I would of said similar to what has been said by others.

Once some people posted, I then wanted to see if my reasons for doing what I did would change their view on the hand

[matt674]

Thats the unfortunate part with poker, if you dont see your opponents cards you're always left pondering "did i make the right decision or not".

Because you were the only one at the table then you are the only one who can truely answer the question as to whether you played the hand badly or not. You were the one watching how he played through the tournament, the moves he made, his style of play etc etc. All we have to go through is just the bare facts of one hand history.

Most people would then give you an answer based on what they would do USUALLY in a similar situation given the limited information available but then there are occassions when they would do something different given the circumstances. For example if this was a super satellite with 8 seats being awarded and you were down to the final 10 then i would probably pass rather than reraise.

By giving us more information further in the thread most people probably wont change from their initial thought of how they would normally play it - but if they found themselves in your position having watched how WES350 played throughout the tournament then they may well have played the hand in the same way you did. Who knows?

[SupaMonkey]

Tbh, when i first read it i thought that it looked like you had 2 overs to the board and he had a middle pp i.e. 7-9. The board pairs the 10 and you check-called the flop. He knows you would bet the 10 on the flop (or at least he thinks the board pairing the 10 means it's unlikely you have it) so now he thinks you don't have a 10 and he has 2 pair which is likely to be the best hand (this fits in with your folding one pair observations). He sounds inexperienced and i think a lot of inexperienced people tend to forget the possibility you may have an overpair. So now he reckons he has the best hand but it is vulnerable, hence he shoves it in so you can't call, maybe?

[M3boy]

Maybe, the thought did cross my mind, but I stuck with my initial take on his hand

[T-V-B]

My first instincts are that you made a great fold. But, it really depends on whether you felt your opponent was a good player, who understood the texture of the board and the implications of the 10 hitting the turn. If you felt he did, the ten hitting the turn demands a check, regardless if he believes he was ahead or not. Thus, his all-in bet looks more like AK-AJ and a desperate bluff. If you believed he didn’t understand, then it’s more likely that he held AA-JJ.

A good example from the 2.5K shorthanded WSOP event this year - Blinds were 200/400 with 50 ante. Ultra-tight guy raises on the button to 1200 with about 17K behind, I cover and call in the BB with QT d. Flop came Q9x. I checked called 2K. Turn was another Q, I checked and he bet 4.8K. I did exactly the same as you “hmmmm” (inside my head  ). He should have been scared of that card but wasn’t, I realised he didn’t understand the implications of the turn card and how he should of reacted to it in order to alter my perception. I figured he had AQ-KQ, but my goldfish memory had forgotten about my thoughts 30 seconds earlier and I put him all-in. He called with AQ and took down the pot.

Your hand is similar, except you were good enough to lay down a monster.

[MrsLime]

I felt if I had re raised him pre or post flop he would of folded. Should I of done this anyway?

I don't know if English is your first language, but there exist no such phrases as "He would of folded" or "Should I of done this?".

The correct phrases are, respectively, "He would have folded" and "Should I have done this?".

The flat call on the flop had the intention of getting a non A on the turn (I had him on A 10 at this point) and then check raising him all in on the turn

How do you check-raise someone when the pot is 19000 and they only have 14500 behind?